Was Shinji Let Off Too Easily For Unintentionally Killing Billions?

[LightDragonman]

I know, this is another topic from me about the same issue, but I've yet to see a good answer for this.

When discussing whether or not Shinji was right or not to save Rei at the end of 2.22, leading to everything that happened in 3.33 and beyond, folks seem to overlook the fact that as a result of his actions, billions, I repeat, BILLIONS of people died. Yet at the end of the series, it all gets resolved with little more than a hand wave saying that "if he didn't do it, the world would've ended regardless."

This ignores that he could've just killed Zeruel along with Rei, and billions would've been spared. Yeah, he'd lose a close friend of his, but she was perfectly fine with dying. What's the life of one compared to the lives of billions more? Besides, by choosing to save Rei and the like, he's rejecting reality and choosing an escapist fantasy where he can be with his waifu while the world burns.

I'm sorry, but regardless of whether or not he meant to, BILLIONS died as a result of his actions. You can't ignore such an immeasurable atrocity.

To compare, it's equivalent to the White Phosphorus sequence from Spec Ops The Line. In that instance, the main character, in an attempt to do good, used White Phosphorus to clear the way ahead of enemies. But in doing so, he also ended up killing 47 innocent people in a horrific fashion. There, the story rightly shows how he was in the wrong for that, no matter his intentions. Even if all you wanted to do was good, if innocent people die as a result, then there's no real justification. You were wrong, and you have to pay somehow.

The third Rebuild film seems to treat Shinji saving Rei in a similar manner. He did what he did with noble intentions, but regardless, his actions killed billions of innocent people. There's no debating it; he was wrong to do so. He should've just killed Zeruel and Rei, allowing billions to live at the cost of his friend

Yet again, the last film doesn't really seem to understand the weight of such an action. Heck at the end, he still doesn't bring all those dead people back, instead just creating a new world for all the survivors. He got off too easy for such a crime basically, and if anything, it trivialized the act of killing billions, accident or not.

If Spec Ops The Line taught me anything, it's that you have to face the consequences for your actions, even if you didn't intend to hurt anybody.

Any thoughts or rebuttals?

[nerv bae]

Heck at the end, he still doesn't bring all those dead people back, instead just creating a new world for all the survivors.

Don't a bunch of dead people come back?

[Kharis1212]

I think it would still be more of an "accident" than anything. Yeah I would be trying to let off Shinji not completely but for the things he didn't deserve.

Like come on it's basic sense that he didn't wanted end the world and was trying to save his friend but the things is. Did he knew what he was doing? That's a question. At this point he has nothing in his mind than saving his friend which is childish but in same manner Shinji is a also a child a emotional being who gives less thoughts to reasoning and does what his emotion wants.
A person can be fully called in adult mid 20s because there pre-frontal cortex is fully developed and hence they no longer rely on their emotional part.
And eitherway if u want u can blame nerve too then for putting a [*]untrained [*] kid for piloting eva. A weapon of mass destruction.
Or not putting a system which will stop such actions.

He did say "idc about world" but as we know he wasn't really going to destroy the world but rather save Rei as in his mind it's in a safe environment to get to his full. Again at this point he doesn't know the nature of an eva.
And that's something he should be called out for. Using eva for something personal and forgetting how dangerous it can be.
But as I said in his mind, he didn't knew properly that he can destroy a world.

And we shouldn't forget it's not Shinji who killed billions of people but rather Gendo(I can be wrong) who did something later but I forgot. As we know Shinji was already stopped in his persue.

[LightDragonman]

Reviving this topic.

It still doesn’t change the fact that, regardless of what the final film tries to say, the correct option and the only one he should have made would be to kill Rei alongside Zeruel. That way, everyone would be saved, and billions wouldn’t have died.

Sure, Shinji would’ve lost one of his best friends. But hey, wha/ one life against the lives of billions? It’s a matter of the needs of the many after all.

And that all completely runs counter to the whole idea of “no matter who you are, you deserve to live.” Shinji was absolutely wrong to try to save Rei, no ifs or buts. And the fact that it was Rei that deserved to die does reflect on Anno’s hatred for her.

I just don’t see how you guys can think otherwise. How do you respond to that? Please let me know.

[The18°angel]

Reviving this topic.

It still doesn’t change the fact that, regardless of what the final film tries to say, the correct option and the only one he should have made would be to kill Rei alongside Zeruel. That way, everyone would be saved, and billions wouldn’t have died.

Sure, Shinji would’ve lost one of his best friends. But hey, wha/ one life against the lives of billions? It’s a matter of the needs of the many after all.

And that all completely runs counter to the whole idea of “no matter who you are, you deserve to live.” Shinji was absolutely wrong to try to save Rei, no ifs or buts. And the fact that it was Rei that deserved to die does reflect on Anno’s hatred for her.

I just don’t see how you guys can think otherwise. How do you respond to that? Please let me know.

the Near third impact that Shinji triggered was stopped/paused(depending on how you see it) by the spear of cassius and Kaworu who was piloting the Mark 06. it did not cause the apocaliptic level of destruction we see on 3.0 because the main cast who was on the ground ZERO of the event survived. Even Touji, Kensuke and Hikari who were trying to go underground and saw Zeruel passing by survived the event even thought they were on the surface when Zeruel tanked multiple missiles to the face.

however the Near third impact did destroy tokyo 03 to the point that the city was abandoned. Now from that point things were mostly normal since in the flasback scene of the third impact were Kaji dies it doesnt look like Misato(who was pregnant on an unkown stage of said pregnancy but late enough she was aware of it) or the NERV crew were looking like a group of survivors would after a world ending event weeks prior that turned earth into a Metro 2033/fallout/stalker wasteland were being out would kill you in minutes if your not using a hazmat suit or being inside the L-pillars.

to answer if Shinji was let of to easily we need to make a few questions that sadly the rebuilds dont give a direct answer and we can only put together things with the very little information we have.

How many people knew that evas could trigger impact events under the right conditions?

the answer: SEELE, Gendo, Kaji(and possibly Mari). out of those 3 only Kaji wants to avoid the end of the world but he keeps the info secret even to Misato because he playing the triple agent role and trying to sabotage SEELE and NERV he also delivered the key of nabuchadnezzar to Gendo wich play a role on the final impact.

Can all evas cause impacts or they must be special in someway?

the answer: We dont know. Hell i believe not even WILLE is aware of that. after the Near third impact or the third impact WILLE ends up developing new restrain tech and installing it inside Unit 02 and Unit 08, in fact as per orders from Misato those restrains are removed from Unit 02 and Unit 08 so that Asuka and Mari can fight at full power for the final battle against Gendo on the south pole. WILLE even goes as far as installing angels blood inside Unit 02 so that Asuka can revive a dead angel for a final power boost if needed(quite stupid since Misato and Ritsuko have seen 3 impact events and all involve angels in some way). this info tells us that Shinji was piloting a time bomb with Unit 01 and that if the right conditions meet he could have triggered an impact even everytime he got into contact with an angel during a battle because of lack of restrains and emotionall problems lets not forget that Unit 01 was the only eva that broke the sound barrier againts sahaquiel when Asuka the "perfect" pilot created and trained from a LCL tank could not do that or something similar until years later when Unit 02 had its restrains removed and now could shape Unit 02 AT like a drill. Unit 13 and Units 09/10/11/12 counts as the adams with the WUNDER class ships putting in questioning exactly what unit 01 is or why it is special.

the true damage of the Near third impact?

the answer: beyond the material destruction of tokyo 03 its unknown how many people died. Midori's short states that the world went to shit one day when the sky turned red, problem is that there are 2 events that are considered the third impact, in Midori'S short there is evidence that it happens after the WILLE rebellion since Unit 02 was fixed and there are destroyed VTOLS one in wich she sleeps one night.

was the world in danger after Unit 01 is stopped?

the answer: yes there are still 2 more angels to kill and SEELE took direct control of NERV and their eva was the only funtioning unit that could defend NERV and lillith.

was the world in danger because Unit 01?

the answer: if Unit 13 is any evidence the evangelion may be able to awaken but cant cause another impact unless it consumes another angel, like how Unit 13 waited until Asuka revived bardiel to make its move and unit 01 did the same thing in space when it destroyed the nemesis unit.

would have the world been destroyed if other actors like SEELE and Gendo did not interviene?

the answer: the third impact that Kaji stops with his life was caused by the combination of Unit Mark 06(now an autonomous model), the 12°angel and lillith. it also seems to have involved Unit 01 in some capacity. but the very specific combination of actors in the third impact makes it clear it was a planned and carefully triggered event that the WILLE rebellion failed to stop, (Kaji had a bullet wound on his arm). without that the world would have likely keep going as normal with Asuka and Kaworu being put on quarentine because they can be use to trigger impacts and with unit 01 being dismanteled or destroyed to about anymore problems or just being send to space.

would have the world suffered a third impact is Shinji did not cause the Near third impact?

the answer: Zeruel would have reached lillith since the self-destruct system in rebuilds is automatic and for some reason the system is programed to let evangelions reach lillith(possibly foreshadowing the events we never see in the 3.0 trailer at the end of 2.0) unlike the original anime were the self-destruction could be trigger manually by NERV's personel. if by some reason Kaworu or Shinji stop and kill Zeruel on the spot, SEELE still has plans to cause the third impact and Gendo would try to manouver with the 11° or 12° angels so that Unit 01 awakens since that is critical for his plans failing that he still has a pilot infected by an angel in the form of Asuka. and without the apocaliptic event Kaji would have a harder time trying to get support to do his little coup d'etat againts Gendo since SEELE would have no reason to be angry enough to remove Gendo from power, remember SEELE got angry that Gendo twisted their plans with the awakening of unit 01 and the near impact event.

the role of unit 01 on the third impact as a whole?

the answer: we or at least i dont know exactly what role did Unit 01 played after it was stopped. in 2.0 SEELE was quite sure that Unit mark 06 was the "true" evangelion and that they did not need anything else to complete their goals. there is never an indication of them building Unit 13 as the final menssager and its clear that Gendo ruined their plans with the Near third impact from Unit 01. in rebuilds impacts seem to be more of a ritual.

the second impact purified the sea's, the third impact was meant to purify the lands and the fourth impact as stated by Gendo is meant to purify the souls. The Near third impact was a "wild" impact that SEELE had to stop because it's not what they wanted even if that impact would have destroyed everything clearing the earth. something happened and SEELE had to change plans to acomodate for Unit 01 eventually they ally themselves wih Gendo again and the third impact happens its never made directly clear if the infinity failures were always a part of the plan, or if they were supposed to be based on the Mark 06 and not Unit 01. Considering the core contamination and that Unit 01 is covered in it 14 years later something happened with the eva on the third impact but it was not physically present on lilliths chamber during the flashback scene.

exactly what does people know about the third impact?

the answer: its very vague exactly what everyone around Shinji know about the event, since they never speak to Shinji directly about it or explain exactly what happened and just bounce back and forth between he is guilty about everything and he not truly completly responsable about it. or the last two movies in general dont truly explore that angle. the fact people in WILLE or village-03 just ignore the fourth impact so casually because the L-pillars can protected them against it just makes this a little more weird.

could have Shinji just killed the angel and shut down the eva?

the answer: we must remember that out of all the pilots Shinji is the least trained and prepared for the job. the only other base we have to judge Shinji are Asuka and Mari, the problem is that by the time Asuka and Mari show the same type of raw power inside a evangelion like Shinji did without having to use the beast mode, its 14 years later when both girls have pilotated the evangelion for most of their lives, know everything or at least mostly everything of what their evas can do and have trained no not fuck the world by accident like Shinji did wich probably included a new evangelion manual with a 100 pages dedicated to "not be like Shinji". On top of both of them being war veterans. by the time Shinji had zeruel on the ground he had crossed the maximum plug dept a while ago so even if he just killed the angel he would have been absorved into the eva or would no longer be human and sended to quarentine, but Shinji never had the training or knew about it. the clossest thing would be Mari when she eats Units 09/10/11/12 she never activates a beast code and she does almost the same things as Shinji did with Unit 08 AT field becoming a giant tiger, just like Shinji replaced a lost arm with an AT field but this is a pilot 14 years later with more time inside a eva than Shinji has been alive(not counting him sleeping inside unit 01)

So Shinji being let off too easily can be because at the end of the day he is just a trigger, meaning he was just a component in someting that was rigged to explote in wich multiple things had to happen even after he pulled the trigger for billions to die. Those multiple things happened when he was not longer part of the equation being tecnically "dead" and there is no guarantee that he could have stopped or changed the events beyond trying to fight and kill the 12° angel and destroy the mark 06 alone... wich would have pushed him to the limits and caused an awakening.

[LightDragonman]

That still doesn't address how, given everything we've seen and the themes that 3.0 communicates, that it wouldn't have been better if, once Shinji reactivated Unit 01, he should've just killed Zeruel and not given two rips about Rei dying in the process.

That way, he wouldn't have caused all that death and destruction, and wouldn't be embracing an escapist fantasy with his maternal waifu that Anno hates (ignore how Rei's plight can be understood by lots of people btw). Plus, Kaworu even told him that his actions were what caused it, and with how sympathetic and heroic 3.0 makes him out to be, why would he lie about that?