Rei in Rebuild Reflects Anno’s Hated Of Her And Anti-Escapism Mesaage

[LightDragonman]

Given how I don’t want to clutter up other threads about this, I’ll post it here.

To reiterate:

I don’t want to get too personal, but I really found myself connecting to the character of Rei the most throughout the entire Evangelion franchise. So I loved what was done to expand on both her character and her relationship with Shinji in the first two Rebuild films. Plus, I never saw it as incest (bite me XD), so it never bothered me that they placed more focus on the two.

This all culminated in the ending in 2.22, which I still consider to be one of the greatest scenes in the entire franchise. Again, not to get too personal, but I found it really inspiring. Rei, having been brought down to her lowest level and with no chance of escape, in part due to Shinji’s absence leading her to make a sacrificial decision, and also due to her nature as a seemingly expendable clone, is told by Shinji that there is no other Ayanami but her, and is given a second chance at life.

As someone who often has feelings of self-loathing and at times, feelings that being given kindness or second chances is wasted on someone like me, I really found it inspiring, regardless of everything that was happening around them. It was saying that no matter your origins, you truly are irreplaceable and deserve to be saved.

Only that changed come 3.33. Here it’s revealed that Shinji destroyed the world in his attempt to save her, and he was essentially rejecting reality by doing so. In other words, now it’s saying that someone like Rei deserves to die and never be saved, as doing so just means dragging the rescuer into escapism, the worst thing imaginable, and the ready of the world suffers because of it.

Which is honestly one of the most cruel and mean-spirited middle fingers you could give to anyone who related to Rei’s plight in the second film, along with it making absolutely no sense.

But I suppose it does make sense (only way it does) from a meta-commentary angle. As Rei was after all meant to be the stereotypical “waifu”, and Anno despises her because of that. Hence why Shinji saving her was choosing a shallow escapist fantasy, when he should’ve just let her to die and embrace “reality”.

Except even then, that’s a stretch. Sure Shinji said he didn’t care what happened to the world, but given the circumstances he was in, he can be forgiven for not thinking about what “might” happen should he take the chance to save Rei. And regardless, the fact that he was specifically focused on her and only accepted her, and not her replacement in the third movie, shows that he saw her as a one-of-a-kind, not some disposable doll.

Regardless though, it makes investing in the two’s connection and relating to Rei a complete waste of time, as Anno showed he has nothing but hatred for Rei thanks to him viewing her as nothing but a symbol for his type of hated escapism.

So basically, if you are at your lowest point and someone has the opportunity to save you, they shouldn’t, because you’ll just be encouraging their harmful escapism and doom others, intentionally or not.

And again, if Shinji had just killed Zeruel with Rei still inside, and didn’t give a crap about her, the result would’ve been much better, as countless lives would’ve been spared. Like, how do you redeem yourself after causing billions to die?

That’s why saving her was shown to be the worst thing he could’ve done. He killed billions, and doesn’t care about the consequences in the moment so long as he can have his waifu again and be with her in a place where he can be comforted and coddled, reality be damned. Almost like he’s having a mini Instrumentality in doing what he did, which may I add, was shown as something that he needed to stop / escape from in EOE.

Which then brings us to 3.0+1.0, which now tries to backtrack a bit. Now it’s saying that, no, he didn’t actually destroy the world when he tried to save her, and in fact, made the right decision the whole time. They even make it a point to show her alive in Unit 01.

(Which does beg the question as to why no one in WILL-E even bothered to check inside the Unit).

But even so, it still comes to the conclusion that regardless of all the scenes and development the two shared together, they can only find meaning by separating from each other. Heck, she gets barely any resolution with Shinji, while the two that Anno loves, Kaworu and Asuka, instead get the lengthy resolutions with him. All with it ending with Shinji running into the new world with Mari, who he has barely shared any scenes with.

This entire Rebuild saga really just completely wasted a connection and character that I was invested in, all because of Anno’s hatred of her for what he sees her representing, despite what the fourth film tried to retcon. Which I found completely insulting.

[BernardoCairo]

I understand your frustration somewhat, since things didn't turn out as you expected. But most of the characters in NTE disappointed fans in some way. They didn't do nearly as much as they did with Asuka and Misato in the original series. And they also took liberties that made people as uncomfortable as you (for example, Asuka being a clone or Misato's role in Q). So it's really hard to believe that Anno had anything against Rei in particular. He just seems to push his characters to the absolute limit in his stories.

[LightDragonman]

Thing is, everything with Rei only reflects his hatred of her due to him viewing her as little more than a symbol for his hated form of escapism. Neither Asuka or Misato were shown as being unworthy of being saved, lest that cause the end of the world after all.

He basically went and turned the ending of 2.22 from a statement that no matter who you are, you deserve to live and are irreplaceable, into saying in 3.33 that if said person is someone like Rei, then that person should just be killed and not be rescued, lest they be dragging said rescuer into an escapist fantasy where they can be coddled and shielded from the outside world, making everyone else suffer.

Which again, only really makes sense from a meta-commentary angle when you take into account how Anno views Rei as a symbol for escapism and the stereotypical Japanese waifu, both of which he despises.

[kuribo-04]

Doesn't she get saved in Shin Eva?

[LightDragonman]

Even so, she gets only the bare minimum of closure with Shinji, with more focus going towards him saying goodbyes to Asuka and Kaworu.

Heck, he barely shows much reaction to seeing her still alive after all in Unit 01.

Not to mention the reveal that her feelings were programmed into her.

[dzzthink]

I also thought 2.22 ending was one of the best scenes of all time. I thought it was really setting up for sth.

I feel like Rei is not really a waifu model but a surrogate for psychological concepts. The point of Rei conceptually is more in relation to the Oedipus complex, whereby Anno is positing how we form relationships in general perhaps.
1. Similar to how Rei is programmed to like Shinji, Shinji is programmed genetically to like Rei due to her resemblance to his mother. The basis of how we form relationships is often stemming for genetics and familial ties. How we interact with people is based on how we interacted with parents, so anno is perhaps alluding to this concept of how we naturally seek the familiar and approach people better when we have some kind of kin with them. Additionally, people who don't develop within a healthy environment lead to future neurotism or anxiety (himself included).
2. Shinji is also pining for something he doesn't have. He never had a parental figure, so he is essentially projecting his desire for connection via someone who is maternal.
3. Maybe trauma bonding as well since Rei had a messed up childhood.
4. Escapism stuff also relevant.

I feel there was never a clear pathway for Rei in the end. There was no direct way she would have turned into waifu material because it didn't fit the stereotypical romance trends of anime. She exists more as a concept rather than a supporting character, which in the end was rather disposable once Shinji resolved his relationship issues.

[LightDragonman]

Again, it all still seems really insulting, especially given how much stronger their bond was here compared to in the original series.

While there may have been Oedipal elements in the original series, the first two Rebuild films instead seemed to be setting up something much deeper than just “he’s looking for a maternal figure.” They were shown bonding and relating to one another over shared feelings, especially when Rei told him about how, like the small confined fish in the water sanctuary, she couldn’t exist anywhere else.

If anything, I thought this showed just how deep her feelings of self-worthlessness were, and heck, her being shown in the tank of LCL and the core of Zeruel also mirrored this. It’s one reason why she said that it was okay for her to die, because she’d just be replaced.

In turn, Shinji telling her that she is irreplaceable serves as affirmation of her real worth. She does matter to someone beyond just being a disposable tool. Just having her safe in his arms is enough for him, even if she couldn’t do anything to protect him or bring him and his father together. Her life still matters to someone.

It was something that really touched me, given that I tend to also struggle with feelings of self-worthlessness and feel replaceable at several low points in my life. The message that, no matter your origin, you deserve a chance at life is a powerful one that I found moving. It’s why I loved the ending to 2.22 so much.

But then, because Anno can’t see Rei as anything other than a symbol for his hated form of escapism, he craps all over it in 3.33. Now it’s instead saying that she did deserve her feelings of self-worthlessness and didn’t deserve to be saved. Because in doing so, Shinji wasn’t affirming her worth, but instead just wanted to seek a childish escapist maternal fantasy, dooming billions to die in the process.

Which I reiterate, is one of the cruelest middle fingers I’ve ever seen in any form of media given to people who could relate to Rei’s plight, along with it not really matching up with what the ending of 2.22 showed.

The only way it even makes a modicum of sense is if you look at it from a meta-commentary angle. And that just reveals Anno’s utter hatred of both Rei and people who don’t see her as a creepy escapism symbol like he does. The opportunity for character growth, relationship building, and even the opportunity for a heartwarming message is ruined, all because Anno is so fricken obsessed with getting people to hate escapism, or at the very least, the escapism he thinks Rei represents.

Screw relating to her or her situation. You should die, and you should feel worthless if you are anything like Rei. Because if not, you’re just dragging someone else into unhealthy escapism and making the rest of the world suffer.

Seriously, that is so incredibly cruel and just shows how much contempt Anno has for the portions of the fanbase who actually like Rei.

[kuribo-04]

Heck, he barely shows much reaction to seeing her still alive after all in Unit 01.

That's just his state of mind during that whole sequence.

[LightDragonman]

Still, I was hoping for me at the end. But again, since Rei is Anno’s hated character, we get the bare minimum.

I note that people still haven’t given a rebuttal to all I’ve posted too. Guess that just means I was right about how Anno sees Rei and how he feels about those who like her.

[nerv bae]

Which then brings us to 3.0+1.0, which now tries to backtrack a bit. Now it’s saying that, no, he didn’t actually destroy the world when he tried to save her, and in fact, made the right decision the whole time. They even make it a point to show her alive in Unit 01.

(Which does beg the question as to why no one in WILL-E even bothered to check inside the Unit).

[LightDragonman]

Ah, I must have forgotten about that part.

Still, the point still stands. Heck, I wonder why Rei decided to not reveal herself to Shinji until later. Would've saved him a lot of grief, and given how she cares for him, she could at least tell him why she's not letting him pilot it yet.

Oh right, because that would ruin the whole "Rei is presumed dead in order to make Shinji believe he killed billions for nothing, in order to further the anti-escapism theme." That, and Anno probably just wants to make more people hate Rei.

[nerv bae]

I note that people still haven’t given a rebuttal to all I’ve posted too. Guess that just means I was right about how Anno sees Rei and how he feels about those who like her.

I think your position lays in a hard-to-reach corner of the interpretive space down a narrow path of maximalist conclusions, like:

1) the ending of 2.22 is one of the greatest scenes in the entire franchise
2) like Rei, you personally are truly irreplaceable and deserve to be saved
3) but wait, per 3.33 Rei deserves to die and never be saved
4) saving her was shown to be the worst thing Shinji could’ve done
5) Anno showed he has nothing but hatred for Rei
6) Anno hates you and believes you should die too, probably

This series of conclusions and its reasoning is defensible, but I can't endorse it because I think every step is vulnerable, if not to outright falsification, then to significant softening. For example, #3 and #4 as I've written them are not unambiguously communicated by the films! Perhaps Rei didn't deserve to die even if Shinji didn't grasp the consequences of his choices!

I just think there is too much maximalist, black-and-white thinking in your interpretation.

[dzzthink]

Yeah lol. You might see things a certain way but I sure don't.

[LightDragonman]

Honestly, the last film feels like even Anno realized he went a bit too far, and tried to rectify things a bit.

It still feels like he did so grudgingly though, given how much he hates Rei after all, so we get the bare minimum. And it still doesn’t change the fact that the world would’ve been in a much better state had he not saved Rei in the first place.

A lot of it just feels like desperately trying to walk back what 3.33 destroyed, and it still doesn’t change the things that he communicated in that film, such as reflecting his hatred of Rei.

[BernardoCairo]

Doesn't she get saved in Shin Eva?

Although I don't agree with LightDragonman, I believe Rei's arc in NTE is a bit all over the place. Sure, we had the amazing village sequence with Rei VI, but Rei II falls a little behind. And I know they're somewhat similar and share memories, but they're not the same person. Both Q and Shin emphasize this a lot. And if they were the same person, it would somewhat diminish the impact of her death scene in the first third of the film. Of course, Rei VI herself didn't do much in Q either.
So, we're left with two different characters who are connected, but not developed to their full potential, in my opinion.

Heck, he barely shows much reaction to seeing her still alive after all in Unit 01.

I guess Shinji already knew she was there. He knew it from start, deep down.

[LightDragonman]

Honestly, it comes from the fact that Anno can’t seem to find a way to naturally intertwine character arcs with the themes and messages he desperately wants the audience to hear, at least when it comes to Rei.

Her development and growing relationship with Shinji, which sees her growing into her own person different from Yui or Lilith and finding her own worth in life, doesn’t really jive with the idea of her being a symbol for otaku’s disinterest in real women that Anno wants her to be. So the former gets sacrificed and gets a weak resolution purely so Anno can communicate his theme.

Shame. She’s not the only victim of this in Rebuild, but she is the most notable.

---

This series of conclusions and its reasoning is defensible, but I can't endorse it because I think every step is vulnerable, if not to outright falsification, then to significant softening.

How in the world can they be vulnerable to softening?

Anno has long made it obvious his disdain for the kind of otaku culture that gravitates towards people like Rei, and regardless of he meant to do it or not, Shinji’s attempt to save her resulted in the death of billions, as confirmed by Kaworu.

The whole “but he didn’t know it would happen” excuse doesn’t really hold when it involves, I repeat, BILLIONS dead. When combined with everything else Anno has said and implied in his works, how else can I come to any other conclusion that despises Rei and all she represents to him?

Perhaps Rei didn't deserve to die even if Shinji didn't grasp the consequences of his choices!

Again. BILLIONS of lives gone. People with loved ones and hopes and aspirations. All dead because of him trying to save her.

How can one argue that Anno wanted her to be saved if that’s how he framed it as? Not also counting all the meta commentary about escapism?

No one here on this site it seems has a good counter-argument to that. So I still see it as Anno holding hatred.

You might see things a certain way but I sure don't.

Care to back up that position? I know I’ve done so for mined and still haven’t seen anyone give a good rebuttal.

Double post merged - BernardoCairo

[dzzthink]

Well I think you're watching a few scenes from the films and saying that anno hates Rei. I agree that anno uses storytelling to bring up concepts of escapism and otaku culture. Rei got a bad ending but so did everyone else. I think Rei served her purpose perfectly without it turning into a soppy romance cliche. Remember Asuka getting eaten in eoe or kaworu barely appearing in thrice? Rei got plenty of screen time and she wasn't eaten. She even got great screen time as Shinji main councilor during the farm and instrumentality scenes and that's good enough closure for me.

I get that technically it was the clone and not the original Rei but I think that's symbolically still Rei (like in the NGE/eoe series).

[LightDragonman]

Still, neither Asuka and Kaworu were seen as unworthy of being saved, lest the end of the world occurs and Shinji picks escapism over embracing reality.

Seriously, Asuka and Shinji's relationship in the original series was one of the main focal points there, so them both being arguable the main focus of EoE was to be expected. Yet Rei and Shinji's relationship in Rebuild, despite it arguably being the main focal point here, barely got anything. Instead, it focuses more on Asuka and Kaworu, who didn't have nearly the same amount of focus.

But Anno loves them and hates Rei, so I can't be too surprised. You say that "well everyone got a bad ending", but that overlooks the more meta reasons for Rei getting what she did, alongside how she was treated in Rebuild compared to the other two.

Heck, the recent short he did for Asuka shows that he is willing to apologize to fans of Asuka for hurting them in his treatment of her in EOE and Rebuild, with the short being a love letter to them. Yet he would never do the same for Rei. If anything, this shows that he has no regrets, and is even glad that he craps over Rei and her fans.

Anyone care to argue otherwise or say that Anno doesn't hate Rei and her fans at this point, given how vastly different he treats them compared to Asuka and her fans?

[nerv bae]

Anyone care to argue otherwise or say that Anno doesn't hate Rei and her fans at this point, given how vastly different he treats them compared to Asuka and her fans?

I'm reluctant to even try, because to me you seem monomaniacally attached to your conclusions! But, here goes:

This series of conclusions and its reasoning is defensible, but I can't endorse it because I think every step is vulnerable, if not to outright falsification, then to significant softening.

How in the world can they be vulnerable to softening?

...

Perhaps Rei didn't deserve to die even if Shinji didn't grasp the consequences of his choices!

Again. BILLIONS of lives gone. People with loved ones and hopes and aspirations. All dead because of him trying to save her.

How can one argue that Anno wanted her to be saved if that’s how he framed it as? Not also counting all the meta commentary about escapism?

No one here on this site it seems has a good counter-argument to that. So I still see it as Anno holding hatred.

I think you consistently leap from "Shinji was wrong to save Rei, because billions died as a result" to "therefore, Rei deserved to die." But, I'm just not convinced that this leap is necessary. You propel your argument across the leap by pointing out that "billions died" and "Anno hates Rei" but I don't think this covers the necessary distance. An alternate reading of the Rebuilds allows for a different conclusion along the lines of "Shinji was wrong to save Rei, because billions died as a result, but Rei is still an innocent victim of fate who did not thus deserve to die, because she didn't kill those billions, right?" Do you see any vulnerability here?

[LightDragonman]

It still means he was wrong to save Rei. How is that any different from her deserving to die if it meant preventing the death of billions.

And it also ignores all the meta-commentary regarding Anno’s dislike of her.

If it seems like I’m monomaniacally attached to all I’ve concluded, it’s because I haven’t really seen anything staring otherwise regarding Anno’s hatred of Rei.