What does "Asuka is Asuka and that’s fine" really mean?

[Rigel]

I wonder what the true meaning of “you are who you are and that's fine” could be and why those words had such a decisive impact on Asuka.
I tried to search in various discussions, but I never found a convincing answer.
I absolutely do not believe that it is only the “right words said at the right time”.
I'm not even convinced by the fact that from now on she will know that she has the parental figure she never had close by who accepts her for who she is, with her strengths and weaknesses.
Finding a parent at 28 absolutely does not repair the damage of not having had one as a child, it can only alleviate the suffering.
I believe there is much more, but I do not understand what.
Can someone help me?

[JFFF-7292]

During the instrumentality we see both memories and representations of Asuka's inner reality.

One thing I noticed is that little Asuka is the only person whose breath condenses.





This can be seen when Asuka looks at Shinji, Yui and Gendo. (Asuka's breathing condenses both before and after the Ikari family scene, while none of the three of them do so, despite Shinji screaming. Also, Shinji is wearing shorts.)



The same thing happens when Kensuke talks to her, his breathing doesn't condense while hers does.



This means that the cause of the condensing breath is not the cold of the german winters, but the cold of the deep inner world where little Asuka lives, a cold that only she perceives.
Those scenes are not memories but they are the representation of what Asuka really is deep down: a small, lonely and sad child who lives in a cold world because there has never been anyone who loved her.

Children need to be loved just as they need the air they breathe. It is a primary need.
A child who does not receive love blames himself, devalues himself and convinces himself that he is not worthy of being loved and does not deserve anyone's love.

This belief is fixed in the depths of the child's unconscious and will remain with him throughout his life, even as an adult, and will make human relationships difficult and painful.
A request for love that can never be accepted by anyone, unconsciously leads to rejecting the need for love for fear of being rejected and suffering even more and therefore Asuka closes herself in solitude. ("you don't need anyone, Asuka. I'm gonna make it so or it'd be too painful").
Loneliness becomes a refuge, but then it also becomes a condemnation.
She then finds shelter from her need for others in her WonderSwan and especially in the cabin of Eva-02, the only place where she feels she belongs, where she at least feels appreciated and recognized (even if she doesn't feel loved).

In instrumentality Asuka descends into the depths of her unconscious and comes into contact with little Asuka who represents her vulnerable and love-needy part, which she has had to reject and deny throughout her life to defend herself from suffering.
But this is not enough, now it is also necessary for Asuka to be able to accept this part of herself.

It is at this point that Kensuke enters the scene, or to be more precise the "figure of Kensuke" appears, representing everything that Kensuke has been able to give to Asuka over time.
(instead of Kensuke, Mari could have also appeared, due to the closeness and protection she had towards Asuka).

This happens despite the “distance” that Asuka has always maintained towards Kensuke or Mari when she was with them.
In fact, when Asuka was at Kensuke's house, while he talks to her, she continues to play WonderSwan.
Later there is the scene where she says with frustration "i have been alone, i'm alone and i'll always be alone" even though she is at Kensuke's house.
When she then returns to the Wunder, while Mari hugs her and asks her about Shinji, she continues to play WonderSwan.
So even when she was with Kensuke or Mari, even though they were there for her and helped her, Asuka still felt alone.
This was because she couldn't “see” them, because unconsciously for defensive purposes, she didn't allow them to truly connect with her.

But in the journey into her unconscious the fog clears and Asuka manages to become aware of everything.
In her subconscious, Asuka can see and feel things that she can't see or feel on a conscious, surface level.
Not only does she manage to see her fragile and needy part, but she also finally realizes all the affection and understanding she has always received from Kensuke, who appears to her surprise inside the doll.
Asuka suddenly discovers everything Kensuke has given her, just as she discovers Kensuke inside the doll. He has always been close to her, but she couldn't see him.
As a result, she sees that her need for love has been sincerely welcomed by other people and understands that now it can be accepted by herself too.
Therefore Asuka realizes that she too is worthy of being loved.

[ in practice, Asuka's inner journey is similar to a psychoanalysis path where, thanks to the therapist's skills, the patient is able to descend into the depths of his own unconscious and becomes aware of the needy and fragile parts of himself that he has always rejected for fear of suffering.
At the same time, thanks to the emotional relationship that has progressively been created, the patient is able to accept these parts, since the therapist with his understanding and empathy has already welcomed them first, then pushing the patient to accept them in turn.
A psychoanalysis therapy lasts several years, but here in the instrumentality everything happens in an accelerated manner (after all, Shinji's growth path is also very fast) ].

In conclusion, Asuka suffers because she feels alone. But loneliness is the consequence of something deeper, of the belief that she does not have the right to be loved, because of the trauma of never having been loved by anyone. Such a trauma can only be truly healed at the root, in the unconscious. But that is exactly what happens.
That deep belief that had settled in Asuka's subconscious all those years ago that she was not worthy of being loved is removed and replaced by the opposite belief: that she deserves to be loved.
So the healing is complete.
When Asuka wakes up, she is an adult in every sense.

So Kensuke's words are not magic words, but it is a sentence of conclusion of a path. A sentence that can be interpreted like this: " you are fine as you are, Asuka, because you also deserve to be loved ".
These words are pronounced by Kensuke, but indeed they are words that Asuka is saying to herself with sincerity.

[Weird_ocean]

Asuka wa Asuka da. Is the same phrase Shinji told Rei Lookalike in the village Ayanami wa Ayanami da. It's exactly the same phrase. It is there to tell us that it was Shinji who took the appearance of Kensuke in Asuka's memories, to push her out of the Minus-space. Reminding that she has a place to go. And to demonstrate what Shinji learned from his time in the village, and from his interaction with Rei. At that time, Shinji had a leading role in the process of Instrumentality, and had great control over the Minus-sapce, so he could easily do that.

SPOILER: Show

SPOILER: Show

Clues for that theory is Kensuke never called Asuka, "Asuka", he called her Shikinami. Only Shinji could call her that. And that in the movie, mo-cap studio, where EVAs are hanged and unzipped like costumes, there is a Kensuke's doll standing there, as a part of the spectacle, as a costume that Shinji "wore". There are also other props, like flying ships and EVA cockpit. So Kensuke-doll is another prop to create this spectacle. Like a tokusatsu movie, that Anno loved so much as a kid.

SPOILER: Show

SPOILER: Show

SPOILER: Show

Also, whenever we see someone interact with others in Instrumentality/Minus-space it is either the soul of a dead person, or a person who is already in Instrumentality/Minus-space. Kensuke was not there at the time, so it could not be him saying these things to Asuka. Besides Asuka, Shinji was the only one who knew about Asuka's history with Kensuke.

Why would Shinji do that?

Shinji was about to kill himself and all Evangelions with a spear. He knew that he would not get out of there alive, so he had to let Asuka, Rei and Kaworu go. He did not yet know that his Mother will save him.

Interesting thing about Asuka's memories, is that we see her revisiting Shinji's room and the Water purification station. But we never sees her coming back to the village to Kensuke's place in her memories. That tells me that her attachment to Shinji is stronger, and before Shinji appeared as Kensuke-doll, she did not Remember Kensuke at all. I think it's a subtle clue that Shinji still means a lot to her.

Why it could not be Shinji? He wanted her to leave the Minus-space, as soon as possible. To remind her that there is a place for her. There is only one way to leave the minus space, and that is a hope that there is somewhere better than here. If he said those words as Shinji, she would be attached to him, and would not leave. I'm sure his heart was broken at that moment, but he was willing to sacrifice his own love in order to save Asuka.

The symbolism of this scene is that Shinji, Mari, Anno and the audience say goodbye to Asuka we all know and love: a teenage girl and a pilot of EVA 02. It happens when Asuka turned into an adult.

The interesting aspect of the last movie, is that no one really saves themselves. Rather, people can be saved only by others. Asuka and Rei, were saved by Shinji. Kaworu was saved by Kaji's soul. And Shinji was saved by Mari. Before that, Shinji was saved by Rei, and people in the village. I think that's one of the messages of the movie, that you don't have to rely only on yourself, because you can easily get lost in your self-loathing and desperation.

I think a lot of people misunderstand this when they say that Kensuke ended up with Asuka, or Mari ended up with Shinji, when, the message here is that you just need friends in life, that will treat you with kindness and understanding. Extending a helping hand, but not forcing to do anything. Like Asuka with Wunder letters, or Shinji with a fishing rod. For the first time, Asuka and Shinji had an experience of a figure in life, that can guide them, but not push them.

That's why Kensuke is there in a dream sequence when Asuka becomes an adult in her body and mind, and Mari is there when Shinji does it. They are examples of how one can live a life, deal with issues and sorrows, in a different way, from what Asuka and Shinji experienced all their life. Both not having an example of a positive adult (in mind or body) and because of that, were not able to overcome their issues.

Nobody in 3+1 can save themselves alone. People need positive examples in their lives, otherwise they will never change. Or at least, it will be much harder.

[Rigel]

... It's exactly the same phrase. It is there to tell us that it was Shinji who took the appearance of Kensuke in Asuka's memories, to push her out of the Minus-space. Reminding that she has a place to go.

But this way Asuka only gets to be saved from the minus space and gets to know that she will have a place to go.
Simply by returning to Kensuke's house, even with an adult body, she would find herself in the same situation as before, she would always feel alone, she would still need to pilot the Eva or play wonderswan to not feel the need of others.
Asuka needs to be saved in another way too: she needs to resolve her internal trauma in order to move on.
The words "Asuka is Asuka..." are addressed to little Asuka, who represents the suffering and love-needy part that feels loneliness, precisely to give an answer to this type of need and resolve the trauma.
Furthermore, it is not necessary for Shinji to disguise himself as Kensuke to invite Asuka to leave the space minus, because on the beach Shinji is present as himself before saying goodbye and sending her back to the real world.

Thanks anyway for the reply.

[Weird_ocean]

Simply by returning to Kensuke's house, even with an adult body, she would find herself in the same situation as before, she would always feel alone, she would still need to pilot the Eva or play wonderswan to not feel the need of others.

Well, yes, there is no singular moment where we just stop being broken. It's the thing that we need to work on for the rest of our lives. Especially people with mental illness and recurring depression. What we saw was a first step a push towards different mindset and that's it.

Furthermore, it is not necessary for Shinji to disguise himself as Kensuke to invite Asuka to leave the space minus, because on the beach Shinji is present as himself before saying goodbye and sending her back to the real world.

Thanks anyway for the reply.

The ending of 3+1 is highly symbolic and meta. You need to follow the symbolism of the whole ending.

Why Asuka needed to remember Kensuke, in the scene where she was a little girl, to become an adult? Why Shinji needed to see Mari in the scene when he transitioned from a teenager to an adult?

Mindset. As you see, Shinji also was sitting there and fading away, not being able to overcome his own mentality, just like Asuka was sitting and crying.

To change their mindset, they needed to remember how other people deal with similar issues. They needed to remember their experiences with Kensuke and Mari to find a way out of their own head. And when Asuka changed her mindset, and turned into an Adult, Shinji appeared. But he used Kensuke as an Example, because he himself could not be one. Because Shinji did not know how to truly find a way out, as we see when after letting his friends go, even after saving them, he was a teenager, who was separated from everyone else. He has no inner strength to get out of his head, and find a way home. That's when Mari comes, and reminds him, that he can look at life differently, and they both get out of the Minus-space.

After the train station scene, Asuka and Shinji will return to the Village 3, they will have to do a lot of self improvement and self-reflection, but at least they are alive, and they have a chance at getting better.
P.S.
Now, do I think it's a good explanation? Yes, I think it's the only correct one. But do I like this narrative and symbolism? Not at all. I think this story and the ending is pretty weak, and boring, EOE is WAY better at conveying similar themes. Yeah, 3+1 is a mess of a movie, but, hey, nothing can be done about that.

[Rigel]

Now, do I think it's a good explanation? Yes, I think it's the only correct one.

The ending of 3+1 is full of ambiguous situations made on purpose to leave freedom of interpretation to the spectators, even if surely there are more valid explanations than others.
Talking about the only correct interpretation does not seem right to me and in fact it is an explanation that I do not share.
It seems to me a minimizing and pessimistic explanation because only minimal progress in the growth of the characters is recognized, only small steps, something that I absolutely do not agree with, in fact the change in the characters seems evident to me.
But minimal changes contradict what is said about the symbolism. It is said that the adult body corresponds to the change of mentality, therefore to an adult mentality, but then only a small mental growth is recognized in the characters.
I also don't agree with the theme that growth only happens through an "example of an adult" to be taken as a reference. Asuka spent time with Kensuke and yet his “example” never produced any change in mentality. As for Shinji and Mari, the interaction between the two of them before the beach scene was so limited that it is unthinkable that Mari is a reference for Shinji, also because other people have already helped Shinji to look at life in a different way.
Another reason why I disagree is the very topic of discussion, namely Kensuke's words and role regarding Asuka. Kensuke is considered only as an “example of an adult person” for Asuka, completely neglecting the importance of the issue of affection and the impact this has on Asuka's trauma and growth.
That said, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, that's your personal explanation, I don't agree with it but I respect it, it's simply a different interpretation.

As far as I'm concerned, JFFF-7292's explanation convinced me.
I think that identifying the origin of Asuka's problems in her deep belief that she doesn't deserve anyone's love is correct and perfectly explains her behavior and her loneliness even when she was with people who loved her.
I also agree with the importance of the question of affections for healing.
Such a trauma can only be resolved by accepting one's "inner child". And this happens when in the instrumentality, deep in her unconscious, Asuka finally manages to realize all the fatherly love that Kensuke has given her and consequently she feels she deserves the love of other people and so she can accept her own “inner child” and her deepest needs.

So in the end Shinji and Asuka don't just take little steps.
Shinji's growth is very evident. His father himself tells him that he has become an adult. Mari tells him that he smells and speaks like an adult. The body he sees is that of an adult.
Asuka, in addition to getting her adult body, also manages to heal completely.
This is consistent with the message of hope that Anno wanted to convey with the ending of 3+1.

[Weird_ocean]

It seems to me a minimizing and pessimistic explanation because only minimal progress in the growth of the characters is recognized, only small steps, something that I absolutely do not agree with, in fact the change in the characters seems evident to me.

Here's the problem. This movie rushes the growth period of our characters so much that explaining it in any sensible way, if you pay attention, is almost impossible. To think that our characters completely changed during few weeks or months they spent in the Village, and it was still not enough to change completely, (Asuka was still lying in bed with her doll, lamenting about how lonely She is) and in instrumentality, Shinji and Asuka both are broken, lonely and sad. But then, Kensuke and Mari just come out of nowhere and Shinji and Asuka magically become adults, and resolve all their issues?

And if In Asuka and Kensuke's case, it makes more sense, because there could be more that we didn't see, like they have long history before 3+1 (although they don't even act like friends at all, and again Asuka in Kensuke's house is mostly miserable) in the case of Mari and Shinji it doesn't make sense at all!

So JFFF-7292's explanation might've work for Asuka, it still doesn't explain, why Shinji needed Mari to become and adult, and why he couldn't get out of the Minus space on his own. It doesn't make sense. He already resolved issues with his father, saved his friends and the world. He proved to everybody and himself, that he's now a reliable person, who can easily sacrifice his life and attachments to help others. But he just sits there, fading away.

Even if we buy the very unlikely scenario that Shinji turned into a superhuman that can overcome any obstacle with a smile on his face, in couple of weeks in the Village that he spent fishing, washing dishes and carrying boxes, it still doesn't explain why the hell he needed Mari to save him. They don't even know each other.

But minimal changes contradict what is said about the symbolism.
I also don't agree with the theme that growth only happens through an "example of an adult" to be taken as a reference. Asuka spent time with Kensuke and yet his “example” never produced any change in mentality.

That's not entirely true. Even her relationship with Shinji changed during the time they lived at Kensuke's house. She confronts her feelings and confesses. That is already a drastic change compared to 3.0.

As for Shinji and Mari, the interaction between the two of them before the beach scene was so limited that it is unthinkable that Mari is a reference for Shinji, also because other people have already helped Shinji to look at life in a different way.

And yet, she's the one to save him. She's the one who turns him into an adult. I know it doesn't make sense. It doesn't, because at some point Anno stopped caring about things making sense in the story, and cared only about the message of "You can't save yourself, you need friends." Otherwise, Mari and Shinji scene is just stupid. Maybe you can explain it? Just don't say that She is Anno's wife, that is not true.

Another reason why I disagree is the very topic of discussion, namely Kensuke's words and role regarding Asuka. Kensuke is considered only as an “example of an adult person” for Asuka, completely neglecting the importance of the issue of affection and the impact this has on Asuka's trauma and growth.

I didn't say it was "JUST" and example. I said that Both Kensuke and Mari cared and helped Shinji and Asuka, and by doing that, and by showing them an example of how one can live a life, they showed a way to maturity. One does not exclude another.

Asuka finally manages to realize all the fatherly love that Kensuke has given her and consequently she feels she deserves the love of other people and so she can accept her own “inner child” and her deepest needs.

See I don't see it. Because there simply was no Kensuke in her memories until he appeared out of nowhere. During battle with Gendo, Shinji remembered Kensuke, Rei and Toji from the village. And although we don't know for sure, Shinji probably remembered Kensuke's story how he wanted to talk with his dad, but he already died at that point. At least from that I can draw the reasoning of why Shinji decided to have conversation with his father. There is a logic there.

But where is the logic, that Kensuke is supposed to be this big figure in Asuka's life, when all Kensuke did was asked her to bring letters to Wunder, gave her a towel and filmed her with a camera. I guess I just don't see their relationships as special at all. There is not enough context there. That's why this revelation feels so forced and rushed, and makes little sense. Just like Mari/Shinji connection.

So in the end Shinji and Asuka don't just take little steps.
Shinji's growth is very evident. His father himself tells him that he has become an adult. Mari tells him that he smells and speaks like an adult. The body he sees is that of an adult.
Asuka, in addition to getting her adult body, also manages to heal completely.
This is consistent with the message of hope that Anno wanted to convey with the ending of 3+1.

Shinji was not able to save himself, and turn his body into an adult one, until Mari came and did it for him. Where is the growth that you are talking about? Gendo and Mari say that Shinji grew up, because what, he spent a few weeks in the village? Then Rei exploded in front of him and he just brushed it off, like it's nothing? What happened? What brings this mental fortitude? It's like he believed in a cult of Village 3, and now a religious fanatic, that is ready to wage a holy war against Gendo, and is not afraid to commit seppuku with a spear, not shedding a singe tear when saying goodbye to all of his friends while preparing to kill himself. What the fuck?

Sure, I try to explain the logic of the movie the best I can, there is some fun in that, but there is no denying that this movie was successful, largely because it has "Evangelion" name in it, and characters that we know and love from the original. If it was a standalone movie, not connected to EVA, people would shit all over it, because it's an incoherent mess of a story, that doesn't make sense.

[JFFF-7292]

But where is the logic, that Kensuke is supposed to be this big figure in Asuka's life, when all Kensuke did was asked her to bring letters to Wunder, gave her a towel and filmed her with a camera.I just don't see their relationships as special at all.

It is implied that Asuka and Kensuke have built a bond over the years of the time skip, though we are shown little of this.
This is also demonstrated by the fact that she walks around the house naked without the slightest embarrassment.
It's true that Asuka despises her teenage body and doesn't even feel human anymore, but she would never show herself naked in front of just anyone, she would only do it with a person who instills great trust and respect in her.
If the relationship doesn't seem all that special, it's because Asuka has built a barrier between her and him, just like she built one between herself and Mari, because she always feels the need to keep people at a distance and take refuge in solitude, playing WonderSwan (even if solitude has now become a torment for her).
And by doing so she doesn't really realize how much Kensuke and Mari love her and how much they are trying to help her, because they have understood that behind the hard fighter's armor there is actually a lonely, sad and suffering person.

[Weird_ocean]

It is implied that Asuka and Kensuke have built a bond over the years of the time skip, though we are shown little of this.

Yeah, I get it, I just hate it. Not the fact that they have some history, but the way Anno directed this movie. By his own words he wanted to make characters more "realistic" and stop telling the story about the inner world and memories, but the life that's happening now. That's why Shin Evangelion has little to no flashbacks before the Instrumentality, almost no exposition about what Kensuke, Toji, Asuka, Mari, Misato did all this time.

So much effort was put into making big robot fights in Shin, it's more than a half of the movie, and I just don't care about it. I like drama, romance, human relationships, mystery, suspense. That's what the good story is for me.

If you look at NGE, battles with angels are there as an excuse to tell us something about our characters. Battles themselves were almost secondary to the character drama. But in Shin, battles are there just for the spectacle, and have almost no value in terms of storytelling. Everything else in the movie serves battle scenes.

And as a result we have a story of our characters that was NOT told to us, because Anno chose this style of directing, (because Anno is like a child that wants to play the opposite day every couple of years) AND the rest of the movie is just battle scenes, that hold almost no narrative value, because it's just a spectacle.

I'm not against story being subtle. I'm fine with digging and finding clues and pieces of the puzzle. But Rebuilds, in 3.0 and especially in Shin, didn't give us almost ANY pieces to put together. In a movie that is 2.5 hour long, we know almost NOTHING about our main characters, and their relationships. That is not genius or profound, it's just poor directing. And the rest of it is just CGI battles. Yes, NGE ending was in many ways unsatisfying, but the foundation of the story was incredibly strong. We could speculate about characters because we had plenty of information about them. In Shin, we have so little that the story stops making sense by the end.

I don't know what's the point of watching a film, where a story and characters are just a backdrop for action. I guess, I don't really care for that type of media.

[BernardoCairo]

But where is the logic, that Kensuke is supposed to be this big figure in Asuka's life, when all Kensuke did was asked her to bring letters to Wunder, gave her a towel and filmed her with a camera.I just don't see their relationships as special at all.

Sometimes in life, all you need is someone who looks up to you. Asuka needed a place to stay and trusted Kensuke, unlike the other villagers. They shared household chores and joked around. Even when you're miserable like her, a good friendship can be welcome.

[Weird_ocean]

Sometimes in life, all you need is someone who looks up to you. Asuka needed a place to stay and trusted Kensuke, unlike the other villagers. They shared household chores and joked around. Even when you're miserable like her, a good friendship can be welcome.

Then why didn't it happen before? So far Asuka's timeline goes likу this:

1. I'm lonely and depressed, I don't like people.
2. Shinji is nice, I like him, maybe I like people a little.
3. Shinji lets her die and suffer and turn into an angel.
4. I hate people again, I don't trust anyone.
5. Mari is nice and kind to me.
6. I still hate people, I don't trust anyone.
7. Kensuke is nice and kind to me.
8. I still hate people, I don't trust anyone.
9. Shinji comes back. DIE YOU STUPID BRAT.
10. Couple of weeks in the village.
11. I liked you Shinji, food was good, but I'm an adult now.
12. Dies.
13. Actually I'm not an adult, I'm still a child and I want mom and dad to hug me.
14. I guess Kensuke is my dad...

???

This is kind of falling apart for me, I don't see a stable character arc here.

[JFFF-7292]

Then why didn't it happen before?

Asuka has suffered the trauma of never having been loved by anyone, she was denied what is a basic need for a child.
This has led her to the deep conviction that she does not deserve anyone's love (this is a mechanism that actually occurs in the psyche of children).
To protect herself from the pain of having her request for love rejected, she rejects her need for other people (“I don't need anyone or I'll suffer"), even those close to her, like Kensuke and Mari, creating a barrier (an AT-Field) between her and them and so Asuka can't see what they're doing for her.

Asuka's instrumentality takes place entirely in her deep subconscious, a unique and special place where she can feel and see things that she cannot perceive on a conscious level.
It is only here that she discovers that the people who love her do exist and that she has always had them close to her and therefore she realizes that she too is worthy of being loved and that now she can accept herself (“you are who you are and that's fine”), she can accept her need to be loved and her need for other people (the deepest and most intimate needs represented by the figure of little Asuka).

From now on she will no longer need to close herself in solitude and seek comfort in her WonderSwan or in the cabin of Eva-02. So Asuka too is now free from Evas and therefore she is ready to live in the world without Evas anymore.

It's certainly a quick healing, like Shinji's, but that's what we're given.

[Kharis1212]

Then why didn't it happen before? So far Asuka's timeline goes likу this:

Well i think Asuka was an(partial)angel.She said many times "lilin" to the humans.So maybe because she has empathy(well more mature than Shinji)So maybe she didn't wanted Kensuke to suffer,Or she thought she will be a weight on Kensuke.So that's why she didn't had any intimacy with him.Or wasn't much closer to him.
But however:-1).The fear is deep inside her,Contradicted
2).And we don't see even a single memory of Kensuke.

(For [quote="JFFF-7292#944878"] )
And then secondly During the flash back of Asuka.We don't even get a single frame showing something of Kensuke and Mari there,Only Shinji,Misato,And Evangelion are there.Atleast subconsciously she should have something for them It's been atleast 14 years and that time is very very enough to change someone's subconscious perception.But a complete lack shows something different.So I guess kensuke is not close as much as you(other than weird ocean)think.And since scene was to show her fading hope of intimacy or friendship or not being lonely.Then it solidifies it even more.

And for his doll.I think it's Shinji in Kensuke.in my opinion that will complete his character arc(Saving others).He knows Asuka cares about him(well she helped him develop, didn't let die alone in 3.0),So if she got to know that Shinji is going on a suicide mission she will refuse to leave.So he became kensuke to give her some hope of friendship or anything.The next line from kowuru "You will be lonely" show or gives direction that it was Shinji.Again we get a doll of kensuke in next scenes(I forgot where) which makes it very clear that kensuke in doll was not her memory but Shinji giving her hope.Well he freed her from himself to live her own life.And that was a heart break.
Rest is explained by Weird_ocean.
I actually forgot while writing what was the topic so I wrote anything .
But I think this will be good for my next post.

[Kharis1212]

... It's exactly the same phrase. It is there to tell us that it was Shinji who took the appearance of Kensuke in Asuka's memories, to push her out of the Minus-space. Reminding that she has a place to go.

But this way Asuka only gets to be saved from the minus space and gets to know that she will have a place to go.
Simply by returning to Kensuke's house, even with an adult body, she would find herself in the same situation as before, she would always feel alone, she would still need to pilot the Eva or play wonderswan to not feel the need of others.
Asuka needs to be saved in another way too: she needs to resolve her internal trauma in order to move on.
The words "Asuka is Asuka..." are addressed to little Asuka, who represents the suffering and love-needy part that feels loneliness, precisely to give an answer to this type of need and resolve the trauma.
Furthermore, it is not necessary for Shinji to disguise himself as Kensuke to invite Asuka to leave the space minus, because on the beach Shinji is present as himself before saying goodbye and sending her back to the real world.

Thanks anyway for the reply.

My brother many things explains that Shinji was Asuka's kensuke doll.I know it not necessary but it doesn't means it can't be .And I think that scene will indeed complete Shinji's arc to.To truly save his loved ones.Also few of things can only be explained on this theory.
You know the rules of Minus space?.
To leave this place you need to truly belong to someplace.And the fact that the flash back was mostly her losing hopes of finding a place to live.And if it is her losing hope it means a external factor is needed.Thats why I think it was Shinji in kensuke's figure.
Shinji knows her problem of loneliness.So offcourse he has to return her favours by giving her hope that 'yes you can live with kensuke'.
So to truly save his loved one he has to give her hope of living.

My brother the If she is adult.I think she needs to resolve that thing by her self.Again hope can be given by someone but it's you to accept it.She has to save herself here. Nobody can save her after minus It's only her.
What Shinji did if he was kensuke doll was given her hope.What Asuka has to do is accept.And what she needs to do after minus space is to live by herself.Or save herself on her own by accepting others and not pushing them away.
Or more simple.Shinji gave her idea that she is not alone and has a place to go.Asuka accepts the fact and realise that she is not alone.the fact that people cared about her is true.And that means she is deserving of loving people.She remembers the affection
So both explanations are correct.
AND WHY I AM KEEP PUTTING Shinji.REASON ARE BELOW.
But I think The JFF guy's said was a good explanation afterwards Weird-Ocean's.

So to actually dig more and more let's make parallel between Shinji saving 4 characters.
1).It's is clear gendo realises himself but it is Shinji gives him the mirror and makes him realise.But the Still gendo is the one who realised himself.
2).For Asuka it is confusing.In my opinion both explanations are very good,By JFF And Wierd_ocean.And are very hard to choose from.Because direction of movie kind a shows that Shinji should be the doll.But descision should be of Asuka to leave.
3).Kowuru, Simply Shinji frees him.
4).Rei,Simply Shinji Frees her from her maternal insctinct s .
Reason why it is Shinji:-
2).(The fact that doll is prop which means the Kenuke saying "Asuka wa da Asuka" is deliberate which means Asuka shouldn't be the doll as we know if he really was her mental representation the doll Should'nt be there after she left,but there was that prop,And remember Shinji controles most of the things there due to that spear,ok)(To complete his own character arc and to return favour). (Well this contradicts your Asuka saving Asuka one)

But the Explanation of JFF that Asuka should have a self realisation.It is also true partially.But what I see is Shinji giving hope.She was hopeless there.She didn't have any memory of kensuke.And then he came out of no where,It doesn't make sense.
Asuka saving herself when the direction of the movie is to save others. Does that make sense after what I wrote(before making parallels).Because to save someone in minus space you have to give them hope or show a place where they belong,Just releasing someone from with the entryplug,I will not call that help here.No as simple as that.

However When JFFF said That due to kensuke's doll she was able to realise , that's true.
That's why I say Put Weird_Ocean's explanation first andput the fog Part of JFF after that.You get a very beautiful explanation.To which I can agree.

To be more clear.First we agree that Shinji is Kensuke.Then We agree that when The smog from Asuka's mouth got clear,There she realised that she has a place to go.

Want more?
Here's a frame by frame.First kensuke comes close to child Asuka.Then she breath her smog.Then afterwards Doll fo Kensuke Says "Asuka wa da Asuka",Then there, no smog comes out of her mouth or the smoke is cleared.Which means Asuka's realisation occurs after his words of 'Asuka wa da Asuka' .So it means it's not from Kensuke from which her smog got clear but it's kensuke's words which clears it.Which means Kensuke(Shinji)gave her hope..Its after this she realised that she has a place to live on.

Even then I can't say that the smog was gone.Because each time Asuka breath smog there is a sound of her breath.The breath I mentioned had breath sound there.And after that there is no sound breath means we don't know if she even took breath between the transition and the last breath in flash back.And next breath occurs when she wakes up at beach ..So again we don't even know if Asuka's smog breath is cleared or not my friend JFFF.So I say it's a Damned amount of ambiguity.Because this scene closely tells whome will end with whom in my opinion especially Asuka's whome.
So if the breath is truly gone maybe she ends with kensuke(either father or romantic figure)if smog is still there,Shinji is her choice.But since She truly needs to find a place my say is Contradicted by itself.I guess I don't know if the breath is gone or not Neither you, That's a perfect Ambiguity. That's why you can add something more and Make your any of interpretations of Endings.
Well mine goes to Shinji end With Asuka
(AHEM AHEM,I know it's somewhat out of topic,But it's Somewhat so don't mind that)

And also please guys if you read this,make sure to reply on this.actuallyvi have been commenting or posting for a short while and nobody replies me which umm actually makes me sad.So please reply if you are reading, Atleast argue with me,I will be happy.

And for the story.It's open ending( I think you people are indirectly talking about who will end with whome).

[JFFF-7292]

I think you partly misunderstood what I meant.
By “the fog clears” and “the breath condenses” I meant two different things.
- About the “clearing fog” I meant that in her subconscious Asuka can see more clearly what is inside her and what is happening around her, here she can perceive things that she cannot feel on a more superficial conscious level.
- “the breath that condenses” instead shows the cold that only little Asuka perceives (in those scenes there are Shinji, Yui, Gendo, the Nerv-EU workers, Kensuke, but none of them condense their breath). The cold that only little Asuka feels is the representation of the total lack of warmth from a person who loves her, because in Asuka's life, since the first days, there has never been anyone who has loved her.
(Asuka and Rei are both clones, but they are different types of clones, Asuka is 100% human with all the normal needs of people, Rei on the other hand has different characteristics, she is devoid of emotions but is predisposed to recognize them and learn them over time, so they have different problems).

It is therefore the total lack of love in her childhood that is the real cause of Asuka's problems.
An unloved child blames himself, feels like a “wrong child” who does not deserve love (this has nothing to do with Asuka being a clone. Asuka feels “wrong” because she has never been loved and not because she is a clone. If she had not been a clone, but had been a normal orphaned child with no parents, unloved by anyone, her situation would have been exactly the same).
The belief that one is a “wrong person” and unworthy of love remains within that person even as an adult.
Fear of rejection and suffering leads the traumatized person to withdraw from others and to repress and despise his deepest needs.

Asuka complains at Kensuke's house that she is alone and will always be alone.
But this is not true at all, because now the people who really love her are there, it's Asuka who is not able to see them, because she does not accept and despises her need for others ("you don't need anyone, Asuka, or it'd be too painful")
This is especially highlighted by the relationship with Mari.
Mari is a person who is comfortable with herself, she has no unresolved internal conflicts, therefore she has no problems relating to people, she likes people, she shows her feelings without inhibitions, she loves Asuka like a real sister.
When Asuka returns to the Wunder, Mari hugs her but Asuka doesn't seem to appreciate this display of affection.



Later Mari continues to hug her but Asuka starts playing with the WonderSwan to create distance between her and Mari and close herself off.

As for Kensuke, he loves Asuka, but he is not as outgoing and exuberant as Mari, he is more respectful and goes along with Asuka's desire to keep a certain distance.

Now it's up to Asuka to realize that there are people who care about her and when she delves into the depths of her unconscious she has the chance to see it.
In fact, the only chance of healing for Asuka is to be able to accept the need of others and the need to be loved, without rejecting and despising them, but this can only happen if she first realizes that there are people who love her and who welcome her needs.

And I am convinced that healing occurs for 3 reasons:

1) I don't know the Japanese version "Asuka wa Asuka da", but in the English dub Kensuke says "you are who you are and there is nothing wrong with that". These are words that imply that an "acceptance" happens, that Asuka accepts herself, the need to be loved, because she is worthy, she is not "wrong", because she realizes that people love her.
For me it is more logical and authentic that this is a self-realization of Asuka and that the figure of Kensuke comes only from Asuka's mind (this does not mean that Asuka is saving herself, in fact without Kensuke or Shinji, who called her back to life, Asuka would not have been saved).
The fact that Shinji is behind Kensuke doesn't convince me much, for several reasons, but maybe it could be like that.
What is most important to me and what makes the difference is what Kensuke really represents for Asuka and the meaning of his words (if Asuka only gets to know that she has a place to go back to, that's not enough for me).
Weird-Ocean asks why Asuka only now sees Kensuke as someone so important when she couldn't before. As I wrote above, I think Asuka can really realize who Kensuke is because she is now in her deep unconscious, where she can perceive things that she can't feel on a conscious level.
In fact I asked myself “why did Anno decide to put Kensuke inside the doll? What could be the meaning of this?” and the only answer I can give myself is that Anno probably wanted to represent a person who has always been close to Asuka, but whom she couldn't see, but then she finally manages to "discover".
(I also want to specify that when I talk about love I simply mean affection, not a romantic type of love).



2) for a question of symbolism and I interpret it in this way:
adult body = fully adult mind = resolution of childhood traumas

3) Unable to afford human relationships for fear of suffering, Asuka has always found self-fulfillment and comfort as an Eva pilot.
But now Asuka has to live in a world without Evas, because Shinji eliminated them.
It is therefore necessary that she is now able to live without Evas and the only real alternative is that she has become capable of living human relationships, of being with people without feeling the need to close herself off and this can only happen if Asuka has resolved her inner trauma by accepting herself and her deepest needs without despising and rejecting them any longer.
If that weren't the case, Asuka, without any more Evas, would be in a worse situation than before.
But I don't think so, I think that in the end Shinji gave a right solution to all his friends, even to Asuka, because she has overcome her trauma, she can really connect with people and she is free from the Evas.

As for who will end up with who, my guess is that Anno leaves everything completely open without giving any definitive answers.

[BernardoCairo]

This is kind of falling apart for me, I don't see a stable character arc here.

You can feel lonely and depressed and still have a good friend to help you out here and there. I don't see how one thing excludes the other.
She has far more problems than Kensuke can reasonably imagine solving. But he can be a nice person to keep around.

[JFFF-7292]

You can feel lonely and depressed and still have a good friend to help you out here and there.

Yes, but Asuka needs Kensuke to represent something more than a friend, that their relationship from now on is different from how it has always been, otherwise she will always feel alone and depressed, as she said when she was at Kensuke's house.
My idea is that Asuka's destiny is not to always remain alone and suffering, but that she too finds the solution to her problems like all the other characters.
The fact that Asuka returns to Kensuke without any internal change, does not provide any answer to the needs of little Asuka. So the scene of instrumentality with little Asuka would be useless.

[Weird_ocean]

You can feel lonely and depressed and still have a good friend to help you out here and there.

Yes, but Asuka needs Kensuke to represent something more than a friend, that their relationship from now on is different from how it has always been, otherwise she will always feel alone and depressed, as she said when she was at Kensuke's house.

I personally hate this development. And not because shipping. It's the fact that they reduced Asuka's character to being a weak little child, that is helpless without "Daddy-Kensuke". Kill me.

In EOE, SHE made a choice to come back to reality and live. SHE took a stand against Shinji. SHE chose to fight against serial EVAs. It was not Shinji or Kensuke that saved her. It was her choice. What a waste of a great character.

Such a fairy-tale idealistic crap. In real life, friends don't actually solve your problems. Because everyone has problems of their own, No matter how good your friends are, you are the only one who ultimately can save yourself. Your friends grow up and move on. Sometimes your friends betray you. Sometimes you just drift apart. 3+1 reduces the complexity of human relationships to 'just be kind to each other, and everything is going to be ok." I can't believe people are naive enough to believe this kind of crap.

Anno didn't want nuances, he wanted simple ideas and answers. He didn't want to write a complex story, instead he wanted to make propaganda for separated post-COVID, lonely Japanese society, with declining birthrates.

And it worked. People love their propaganda. Easy answers, simple resolution and a happy ending. Those things go so well, with a bucket of popcorn.

[JFFF-7292]

I'm sorry you have such a negative view of Rebuild.

I know that human relationships are complex and complicated and that needing others can be really difficult, but there is no single rule, it depends on the person, the problem they have, their ability to ask for help and the type of people who are close to this person. Sometimes you save yourself alone, sometimes you need the help of others and sometimes you don't save yourself at all, neither alone nor with others.
Personally, I like the message of the movie that you can't save yourself, because here the protagonists find themselves in really extreme situations.

Returning to the topic of discussion, Shikinami desperately needs to feel loved and is deeply convinced that no one will ever love her (so rather than a weak and helpless child I prefer to talk of a very needy and sad “inner child”).
She needs to be loved, just like Soryu, who in fact finds the strength to react when she realizes that her mother never abandoned her and therefore has always loved her.
So imo it is more correct to say that Soryu manages to make all those choices and save herself only after she becomes aware that she has always been loved and this happens only thanks to the help received from her mother, who cannot save Soryu from the reactivation of the EVAs-MP, but saves Asuka from herself.

Regarding the figure of Kensuke, rather than interpreting him as a father, I prefer to see him as someone who finally makes Asuka fully aware that she is loved and that she also deserves to be loved and here there is a similarity with what Soryu's mother does.
The difference is that on one hand there is a logical and coherent situation of a mother/daughter relationship, in the other situation instead it is really difficult to assign a precise role to the figure of Kensuke (a father? an older brother? something else?).
The way I interpret it, Kensuke is the one who ultimately manages to reach Asuka's "inner child" and push her to realize that the people who love her exist and are right there next to her.
After all, Shikinami, unlike Soryu, never had a mother who could save her.
And it doesn't matter that Shikinami is 28 and Soryu is 14, such a heavy childhood trauma never stops making its effects felt on a person, it continues until the end, unless it is resolved by some major intervention.

[Kharis1212]

I actually think i have a very narrow view of rebuild .Because i didn't saw it several times like NGE+EOE.Rebuild actually I say is kind of mid but still artistically dense.I like Evangelion.

And I totally agree with your second paragraph.

It's just i think now that I didn't respected others view.(But I am to lazy to edit my post )

It's just saw minute details like nothing of kensuke was in Asuka's flashback.Then Kensuke came closer to her,She again took a smogged breath(From which i thought what I thought),But when kensuke said those words "You are Asuka and that's fine",it's only then her smog was gone(still i don't know if true or not,well I am not bothering to search it).Which kind of showed me that kensuke was not very deep in her thoughts(i wondered actually why like it's been 14 years).(Due to Trauma).So I wrote what I wrote.
( However I kind of understand now that it metaphorically showed Asuka Langley Shikinami in a nutshell,So if that's the case who knows what kensuke might be
And he has imp place in her life).
And then I saw through the direction itself that it should be Shinji in the prop.(Sighhhhhhhhhhhhh)
Edit:
_______________________________________________________
Asuka is Asuka,it's self acceptance,it bothered me.Like it is still not getting in my head it is really Asuka,damn it.
Because you are correct,Shinji concluded his arc by saying "I think I can handle heart break" etc etc.So Asuka's should be similar,Self acceptance.
Oh god.O guess it is Asuka who said that.Because I am kind of in a mind break state.


_______________________________________________________

However you said it correctly,That still it's Kensuke who gave her affection and made her realised that she was also loved and is capable of loving.At that moment.So I guess it doesn't matter who was prop etc.(don't mind what I wrote down)

However that's why I said there, mix those two interpretations.(my narrow view )(well ahem ahem, it's still as you wish ,as "we need to find out our own ways")(so don't bother).

However Evangelion is noted for it's wide range of interpretations.so I think you are right in your own interpretation.And I am right in my own interpretation.

And I still think, I missed many things .

However for kensuke(in my interpretation).He is KenKen.