-46h (GENERAL)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Saint Eva » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:19 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:It is possible that N3I created a strong enough L field to tang a few people in and around Tokyo-3, even if land core-ification din't actually take place until Actual Thirs Impact happened.

Also, we don't know for sure if Sakura's family was tanged


If tangification took place during N3I then Misato, Ritsuko, Mari, Kaji, Gendo etc should have been the first victims as they were present right at ground zero. Asuka, Toji, Kensuke, Hikari, Sakura far away from the ground zero were also okay.

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote: right? It is possible they were killed in the big-ass cross-shaped explosion that exposed the geo front and must necessarily have f'ed up the town above it real good, immediately after the Rei-shaped FoL is absorbed into Eva-01 and a second set of rings appears in the sky outside.


But Zeruel had already blown and burned off the city before infiltrating Geofront and confronting Mari as evidenced with pile of debris around her. Residents were busy evacuating to the Geofront shelter so I don't think there were people left in city above by the time cross-shaped explosion took place. Honestly, more people likely to have died during the Zeruel Eva fight than the N3I. This guy melted through "24 layers of special armor in one hit" Those Tokyo-3 shelters were never safe, even during the first Angel fight.

Personally Sakura blaming Shinji for being responsible for her dad's death never made much sense to me. Sure, his actions opened gates of guf and caused cross-shaped explosion in Tokyo-3 but honestly if someone was dumb enough to still hang above in the city after Zeruel brought hell, then they have noone but to blame themselves. Misato, Kaji, Gendo, Kensuke being fine while Unit01 was growing halo and wings should mean that it didn't caused any life-threatening damage inside Geofront.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:18 pm

View Original PostSaint Eva#939521 wrote:Personally Sakura blaming Shinji for being responsible for her dad's death never made much sense to me. Sure, his actions opened gates of guf and caused cross-shaped explosion in Tokyo-3 but honestly if someone was dumb enough to still hang above in the city after Zeruel brought hell, then they have noone but to blame themselves. Misato, Kaji, Gendo, Kensuke being fine while Unit01 was growing halo and wings should mean that it didn't caused any life-threatening damage inside Geofront.

Yeah. That was always a weird thing for me.

The destruction at the end of 2.0 wasn't so big. So, if this was the only thing the refer as N3I, the fear the characters feel about this seemed pretty weird.

It's easier they are including the events as the corification of the Earth in N3I (even if this effect is from the Third Impact).

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Ragnarok » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:24 pm

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:
View Original PostGiji Shinka#939347 wrote:Damn, the length is a bit disappointing.


Though not having seen it yet, in the shorts defense it was announced as a special feature being made for the home video release and has always been treated by Khara as a special feature being made for the home video release. Khara has never treated it as anything but a short film.

It's a little (hopefully final) gift to the fans for buying the home video release.
Despite the rampant fan theorizing here, and I'm sure elsewhere online, it was never designed to be an epic tell-all project.

I kinda figured some people will be upset with the runtime because when I floated the 10 minute runtime a month or so and the only response was someone shooting it down cause "No. 10 minutes is not enough time to tell all the exciting major big-world fill-all-the-gaps fan theories ideas that have been thought up by fans since 2012" even though historically most short films run around 10 minutes in length.

If Khara ever wants to fill in the 14 year gap - and god I really hope they don't, it's unnecessary and I'd prefer they finally let Eva rest and focus on new stories - it'll be in a standalone project. Not a special feature bundled with another film.

Can't wait to see this little short. My blu-ray should be arriving tomorrow so doing my best to stay unspoiled!


- Well, that's clear, since it's a feature of home editions.

- Here I can differ: Either what he says is proven in the long run, or in the long run it is proven that: a) The short is a guideline for the next generation of filmmakers, if any of them are encouraged to produce content derived from Rebuild not related to the main plot, b) Quite the contrary: Unwrapping through a series of shorts (and this was the beginning) a finite amount of details about what has never been seen in the cinema.

- I respect that you don't want to see any of that (and it's the truth: if he had wanted to, Anno would have included all that we didn't see and made a fifth or sixth film, and as Eva fans that we are, we would be debating here), but I do want to see. Of course: It would not necessarily have to be one or two more films, nor would it have to be a prequel series. It could well be a series of 10-12 shorts (or less), and that would be enough.

- I also agree that, if this is the start of something or something else is planned in that format, it would be as a feature for another movie (another deluxe version of all Rebuild, in the future?).

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Cola-09 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:02 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:I think it's pretty likely Lilins put both events under the same umbrella of "Near Third Impact".

Interesting take. Come to think of it, have the Linin mentioned the A3I by name in any of the movies, or have they always referred to the N3I?

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:22 pm

View Original PostCola-09 wrote:Interesting take. Come to think of it, have the Linin mentioned the A3I by name in any of the movies, or have they always referred to the N3I?


The only time a regular Lilin who mentioned the Third Impact was Kensuke when he told Shinji that Kaji sacrificed to stop it. In this case, Shinji was asking what happend with Kaji, so it makes sense Kensuke will refere to the specific event (Third Impact) Kaji stopped with his sacrifice.

Asuka also mentioned the Third Impact in 3.0, becasue she feared Shinji wil restart it again. Like Kensuke, it was about a specific situation.

Kaworu and Gendo mentioned the Third Impact in 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 respectively, both said the Third Impact was the event that makes the red Earth.


PS: Actual Third Impact is a term used by fans. It has never been used

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby DantesInferno » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:04 pm

View Original PostSaint Eva wrote:If tangification took place during N3I then Misato, Ritsuko, Mari, Kaji, Gendo etc should have been the first victims as they were present right at ground zero. Asuka, Toji, Kensuke, Hikari, Sakura far away from the ground zero were also okay.


Yes, that is correct... but perhaps some "eye of the storm" thing going on? There is definitely some antigravity sheanningans going on at N3I (all the rubble and debris floating, and then falling back when N3I is stopped), but curiously it doesn't seem to affect any of the lilim. We even see Mari standing on a rock with rubble floating all around, but she's unaffected. There's a lot that doesn't make sense (newsflash!).

View Original PostSaint Eva wrote:But Zeruel had already blown and burned off the city before infiltrating Geofront and confronting Mari as evidenced with pile of debris around her. Residents were busy evacuating to the Geofront shelter so I don't think there were people left in city above by the time cross-shaped explosion took place. Honestly, more people likely to have died during the Zeruel Eva fight than the N3I. This guy melted through "24 layers of special armor in one hit" Those Tokyo-3 shelters were never safe, even during the first Angel fight.


Well, I'm sure it didn't destroy the whole city (only thing that's sure is the "rising" buildings at the center, creating a hole to get in); the outskirta should have been pretty unaffected. It's very possible some of the protagonists' relatives were left behind there and killed in the explosion. But yeah, so much going on, angel attack, angel battle, and then N3I. I wonder how anyone would be able to tell what exactly killed someone.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby swagbuckking1 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:44 am

I think they just blamed were mainly angry at Shinji because he was an easy scapegoat. They couldn't directly express their anger at Gendo because he was far and away running rings around them.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:41 am

View Original Postswagbuckking1 wrote:I think they just blamed were mainly angry at Shinji because he was an easy scapegoat. They couldn't directly express their anger at Gendo because he was far and away running rings around them.

Well, Shinji isn't an easier scapegoat than Gendo, since he isn't around for 14 years (where he has been blamed for the state of the World by humanity).

When Shinji appears, WILLE crew show him the anger accumulated towards him for so long.

That said, WILLE crew are angry with Gendo too (he is their enemy after all). This is not shown much, because they hardly interact with Gendo, but Ritsuko directly shoot Gendo in the head in 3.0+1.0.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby swagbuckking1 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:Well, Shinji isn't an easier scapegoat than Gendo, since he isn't around for 14 years (where he has been blamed for the state of the World by humanity).

Shinji not being around for 14 years is precisely why he's an easier scapegoat. They wouldn't have been able to see he didn't mean to cause NTI since he wouldn't have been around to tell of his experience or defend himself. It's much easier to assign blame to the absent party. A scapegoat doesn't have to be present to be a scapegoat and I don't know where you got that idea from.

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:That said, WILLE crew are angry with Gendo too (he is their enemy after all). This is not shown much, because they hardly interact with Gendo, but Ritsuko directly shoot Gendo in the head in 3.0+1.0.

That's exactly what I said. They were angry at Gendo but couldn't do shit to him because as I said, he was far away, outsmarting them at every turn.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Saint Eva » Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:33 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Well, I'm sure it didn't destroy the whole city (only thing that's sure is the "rising" buildings at the center, creating a hole to get in); the outskirta should have been pretty unaffected. It's very possible some of the protagonists' relatives were left behind there and killed in the explosion. But yeah, so much going on, angel attack, angel battle, and then N3I.

It destroyed district 4 and Central Block whose buildings melted away down to Nerv HQ. There's the collateral damage from waves of N2 bombs, which Nerv kept firing even inside the city, one of them lands near Toji. Rei also blew up N2 missile, whose explosion was large enough to reach all the way to the ceiling and cover entire retracted city. I'd say most of the city had already been destroyed by the time Gates of guf opened. It's indeed possible some were left up there by the time N3I started but the way characters talk, they're very certain it's Shinji who killed their relatives but not Angel/Nerv/Evas.
View Original PostDantesInferno wrote: I wonder how anyone would be able to tell what exactly killed someone.

You're right, which brings me to a point that keeps me bugging me is how Sakura so sure that her dad died in N3I but not during the Angel battle? When Angel arrives, we see Toji evacuating, little Sakura should be around him offscreen and so should be a responsible father. Even if we say, he told the children to go ahead while he catches up with them later, Sakura should still be aware of how destructive Angel and Eva battles are. Nerv didn't allow the outside news to get inside shelters and while descending, a civilian says that their phone lost signal so it's not possible for Sakura to be on-call whole time with father who's still up there. So she should have no way to know if he was still alive by the time N3I started yet she also blames Shinji.
Konja7 wrote: Yeah. That was always a weird thing for me. The destruction at the end of 2.0 wasn't so big. So, if this was the only thing the refer as N3I, the fear the characters feel about this seemed pretty weird. It's easier they are including the events as the corification of the Earth in N3I (even if this effect is from the Third Impact).

Yep. Characters being afraid of N3I becomes even weirder when you realize that except Misato & co., no civilians should have a first-hand experience of Eva01 awakening as they should all be inside Geofront shelter during that time and as we have seen in 1.0, Nerv controls the broadcast and doesn't let any information get in. But most survivors saw Zeruel's rampage, how it killed so many people and destroyed their homes, how it crushed all Evas, crashed through the pyramid, and nearly killed everyone. But instead of being traumatized from that, they're more afraid of N3I, which they likely to have found out much later on how after killing that Angel, Eva01 caused a new explosion, opened up a black hole and sucked some parts of the destroyed Tokyo-3 and it all lasted for 5 minutes till it got deactivated after being hit by a spear.

I believe the theory of "Near Third Impact" being an umbrella term is likely correct. Characters have conflated and combined multiple events under one umbrella where N3I instead of just referring to the opening of Gates of guf, also refers to other events also including 10th Angel. So when Toji and Kensuke are talking about surviving N3I, they're really talking about the day 10th Angel attacked. Others consider N3I as the same event as A3I. Later characters like Midori even threw in corification. One term carries separate meanings for every character.
Last edited by Saint Eva on Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Axx°N N. » Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:46 am

View Original Postswagbuckking1 wrote:They couldn't directly express their anger at Gendo because he was far and away running rings around them.

If there was some straight-out-of-anime-tier megamind mastermind keikaku god running rings around me like sonic the edgehog I'd be more pissed exactly for having to be in that situation. It'd be like shooting at pictures on the wall of him ending of Come and See type anger. I don't think people irl who never got to meet the genocidal dictators who genocided them were apathetic.
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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:16 am

View Original PostSaint Eva wrote:I believe the theory of "Near Third Impact" being an umbrella term is likely correct. Characters have conflated and combined multiple events under one umbrella where N3I instead of just referring to the opening of Gates of guf, also refers to other events also including 10th Angel. So when Toji and Kensuke are talking about surviving N3I, they're really talking about the day 10th Angel attacked. Others consider N3I as the same event as A3I. Later characters like Midori even threw in corification. One term carries separate meanings for every character.

Now, I'm pretty sure Touji and Kensuke include the corification when they speak about surviving the N3I:

Kensuke: At that time, I didn't think the old man, who survived the Near Third Impact, would die like that in an accident.

Touji: We survived even the Near Third Impact. Have trust in our own luck and in Misato's Wille.



Phrases like these (that implies the N3I was the worse thing that happened) have a lot more sense if the corification is included in the event called N3I.

I mean the destruction at the end of 2.0 wouldn't be worse than the corification.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Kendrix » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:54 am

View Original PostSaint Eva wrote:
I believe the theory of "Near Third Impact" being an umbrella term is likely correct. Characters have conflated and combined multiple events under one umbrella where N3I instead of just referring to the opening of Gates of guf, also refers to other events also including 10th Angel. So when Toji and Kensuke are talking about surviving N3I, they're really talking about the day 10th Angel attacked. Others consider N3I as the same event as A3I. Later characters like Midori even threw in corification. One term carries separate meanings for every character.


That's possible.

Some other thoughts:

The dynamic between Midori & Sakura (who seem to be friends & roomates) must be interesting, given their different ways of coping with everything & how both lost their parents in the mess.


Asuka also gets to look pretty heroic here in being so determined to look for/ save survivors, seems like she did some growing up in the midst of all the horror but isn't nearly as jaded as her timeskip self.
Though it is possible that she hasn't found out all the revelations yet.

Note how she calls Mari "newbie" at this point so that's also a snapshot in their dynamic evolving.

Also made me realize how last film kind of made me like Asuka a bit more just cause we see her in the context of some more positive relationships. (even if she's still plenty abrasive towards Shinji, there is more to the picture) -

Shinji & Misato were never really able to see through her tough veneer & understand what she really means, but here she has these friendships with Mari who seems to see right through her & encourages her to be more open, & with Kensuke who camly accepts her even at her moodiest - it's nice to see her get that.

Though this also makes me a bit sad that her connection with Hikari wasn't picked up again - I mean most likely this is because they didn't spend nearly as much time together in Rebuild-verse.

But still, I think it would have been a really effective knife-twister to show a scene of Asuka in her hoodie looking from the distance at Hikari's semi-normal life (hanging up laundry or something) but hiding away before she gets noticed.
Last edited by Kendrix on Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby swagbuckking1 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:55 am

View Original PostAxx°N N. wrote:If there was some straight-out-of-anime-tier megamind mastermind keikaku god running rings around me like sonic the edgehog I'd be more pissed exactly for having to be in that situation. It'd be like shooting at pictures on the wall of him ending of Come and See type anger. I don't think people irl who never got to meet the genocidal dictators who genocided them were apathetic.

The key words are "directly" and "express". They are obviously mad at him (as I mentioned multiple times). They just can't do anything about it directly *to him*.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:07 pm

I liked the short! Glad it doesn't reveal mysteries that imo should be kept ambiguous.
Some weird stuff, and generally at feels a little out of place, probably due to Anno's abscence. But this made it feel like an Animator Expo short too.

A nice bonus in any case. Love that Midori is getting some love. And short hair Asuka is awesome.

Not sure yet how Impact stuff lines up at all, but a slowly advancing coreization is pretty surprising and creepy.
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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby nerv bae » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:24 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Random hot take: ... I think we see exactly one Unit 01 head in -46h, and that also matters somehow (how, though? Beats me!).

Still thinking about this. Has anyone counted more than one Unit 01 head in the short?

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:57 am

This twitter mentioned some thing that Marina Ise (Midori's VA) comment in the stage greeting:



It's coded, but it's really easy to translate in the link Rot13.com:

SPOILER: Show
Like everyone else.. Ise says she figured Midori's hair was a fashion statement, she thought she was probably just keeping up with latest trends, if it wasn't her natural hair colour.
She was shocked to find out how heavy the true story was LOL
She was also surprised to find out that Asuka saved Midori's life, and thinks that the short really recontextualizes some of the lines in 3+1


Marina Ise is totally right that the short recontextualizes some lines in 3.0+1.0

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:22 am

^This makes me wonder if this was something they came up with afterwards that was not yet planned at the time of Q.

Re: Sakura's parents (& grandpa, if he exists in Rebuild): It's fully possible that they died in a more ordinary way like a building falling on them when the ground cracked open at the end of 2.0.

I wonder if Hikari's sisters exist in this continuity, and whether they died or got tanged - they are not living with Hikari & her father in 3+1 nor are they mentioned, but Tsubame was named in keeping with the same "naming theme" so I don't think Anno & co just forgot about the sisters.

Relationships between WILLE members are kind of hinted at but never truly elaborated like, Sakura & Midori are besties, Midori admires Asuka, Takao was acquainted with Kaji, Sumire is sort of the mature one with a sense of duty and also close with Mari (or at least Mari has an affectionate nickname for her), - plenty of elaboration potential.
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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby Konja7 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:34 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:^This makes me wonder if this was something they came up with afterwards that was not yet planned at the time of Q .

Maybe they didn't plan Midori's backstory in Q. However, it isn't uncommon the voice actors know little more than the audience about their characters.

For example: Kotono Mitsuishi (Misato's VA) told in an interview that she didn't know why Misato was angry with Shinji when she started reording Q.



View Original PostKendrix wrote:Re: Sakura's parents (& grandpa, if he exists in Rebuild): It's fully possible that they died in a more ordinary way like a building falling on them when the ground cracked open at the end of 2.0.

It's possible, but considering the connection between Midori and Sakura during the shoot scene seems more likely that his faher died(?) in the corification too.

Also, Sakura only mentioned her father and others dissapeared due to N3I. I really doubt she include her mother in "others".
Last edited by Konja7 on Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: -46h (GENERAL) [SPOILER]

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Postby nerv bae » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:17 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:
View Original PostElMariachi#939478 wrote:Something else that I noticed that might indicate that this short takes place after Actual Third Impact: if you look at the nose of the plane Mari is piloting, you can see that the "NERV" lettering is barred by two blue bars, the same way that the Wunder's original name was barred in Thrice, so the rebellion must had already happened, and we know from Kohji in Thrice that it happened as Third Impact happened.

Neat! Further regarding that plane, I read comments that the -46h lifter was an NGE / EOE callback, and sure enough:

SPOILER: Show
-46h lifter:
Image

NGE ep 7 lifter:
Image

EOE lifter:
Image

NTE 2.0 lifters:
Image
Image

So, they borrowed an NGE / EOE lifter design for this short rather than using one of the NTE lifter designs.

In higher resolution, you can see that WILLE graffiti artists also painted over the NERV insignia on the wings:

SPOILER: Show
Image


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