Why is Rei face everywhere?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Cookie H Wilson
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Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby Cookie H Wilson » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:48 pm

Hello Geeks
My question is
Since we have no clue whether Liliths soul resides in Rei (except for the weird cross and rainbow when she tangs in Thrice) and having no confirmation that Eva 01 is a clone of Lilith nor an Adam (since we have the 4 minor adams being the ships+cores(Eva opfer type 0.9a to 12) and the first angel being Eva 13 with his Soul being Kaworu ( it seems that during the start of 4th impact in 3.33 he says he descended to the 13th which Kaji says being the humanity itself …. So what I think is he became the trigger since his soul component (FOL) got sucked into 13 and he was left a human )
What I find uncomfortable and uncomprehesible is why there is Rei s face in the giant dead Lilith and why on earth Eva Imaginary becomes her and why on earth when in 3.33 the 12th angel cocooned itaself round unit 01 there were many littl Reis gigglin
Let’s put the meta thing on a side.
Everything makes sense to me (yeah even the Adams and ships and impacts) except for Rei
Any concrete idea?
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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby Konja7 » Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:10 pm

View Original PostCookie H Wilson wrote:and the first angel being Eva 13 with his Soul being Kaworu ( it seems that during the start of 4th impact in 3.33 he says he descended to the 13th which Kaji says being the humanity itself …. So what I think is he became the trigger since his soul component (FOL) got sucked into 13 and he was left a human )

Kaji doesn't really say the 13th Angel is humanity. He just mentioned the situation that Kaworu descended to the 13th Angel.

Also, although Kaworu becoming the 13th Angels was the trigger for the Fourth Impact in 3.33, the soul of Kaworu was only trapped in Eva-13 after his death.



View Original PostCookie H Wilson wrote:What I find uncomfortable and uncomprehesible is why there is Rei s face in the giant dead Lilith and why on earth Eva Imaginary becomes her and why on earth when in 3.33 the 12th angel cocooned itaself round unit 01 there were many littl Reis gigglin

I assume Rei having Lilith's soul is still part of the lore in Rebuild. That's why Rei face appears when Lilith is involved.

I know Eva Imaginary shouln't have a connection with Rei, but the Eva Imaginary seems a Black Lilith (which is likely related to Gendo and Shinji). So, I guess the connection between Lilith and Rei apply with Black Lilith too.

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:38 pm

I think Rei's face appearing everywhere is a nod to the people who saw NGE to say that Rei still has Lilith's soul in this continuity. Besides, it wouldn't make sense for her to have inhumane blue hair and red eyes if there are no connection with the Angels (especially since the Shikinami line showed us that NERV knows how to make perfect clones)

As for Eva Imaginary also having Rei's face, there are several possibilities:
  • Gendo knows about Rei having Lilith's soul, and he probably was here when the actual Third Impact happened, during which Lilith's face changed into Rei's, so his memories influenced the appearance of Imaginary GNR
  • at this point of the story, the NGE and NTE timelines already started to blend together, and since Gendo and Shinji saw GNR in EoE, they subconsciously influenced Imaginary GNR's appearance
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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby nerv bae » Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:15 am

View Original PostCookie H Wilson wrote:... and the first angel being Eva 13 with his Soul being Kaworu ( it seems that during the start of 4th impact in 3.33 he says he descended to the 13th which Kaji says being the humanity itself ….
Konja7 wrote:Kaji doesn't really say the 13th Angel is humanity. He just mentioned the situation that Kaworu descended to the 13th Angel

Had to go back and listen to Kaji's line during Kaworu's instrumentality again: "Nagisa means 'shore,' the space between land and sea. It's a fitting name for you, as the one that interlinks humanity, the 1st Angel and that which becomes the 13th Angel." Interesting line insofar as it can be parsed so that either "you" (Kaworu) or "humanity" is "the 1st Angel and that which becomes the 13th Angel." Doesn't really help with the Rei question though. :tongue:

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby Cookie H Wilson » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:38 pm

I really can’t find an answer about it
And about what Eva 01 was made from
Uhmmm
And what about MK 6?
O man we need that 2.5 ova series
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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:46 pm

Probably a placeholder from 1.0 & 2.0 when the story wasn't yet radically off the rails from NGE. It more than likely would've been fleshed out more in the timeskip but until Khara produces anything from that period in the story it'll remain just a left opened lore point that conveniently also serves as a nod to the TV series.
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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby AsuQa_PsyOp_Langley » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:32 pm

I'd rather not make a thread about it because I feel this one or a couple of other with recent-ish activity are as good a place of any : Listening to a couple of podcasts about the Rebuild films I suddenly realized that Rei had nothing to do with the last Impacts mechanically speaking.

It's a basic fact in the story of Thrice that once Rei Q goes plop, she's no longer there as an active character. I suppose in a way my perception tricked me because there's enough Rei mentions, massive head and callbacks to past iterations that I was distracted into fusing the two as I was watching the movies, missing the obvious fact that she wasn't really there in the final.

Which prompted me to think back on what her purpose was in NTE... And I'm a little confused why NERV keep Rei Q (and every other Rei since Rei II in NTE) around ?
OPFER Eva mark 9 through 12 in Thrice are piloted by Advanced Ayaname Series clones but those are all supposedly blank slates with "pure souls" whatever that means. Those four Reis Fuyutsuki get out of storage seem either feral or maybe "nerfed" as individuals ? We never see them beyond that so who knows but for all intents and purpose they're not considered a continuation of Rei-II and Rei Q as characters. On the other hand it seems suggested that the Asuka clones all exist concurrently (or in competition) to begin with so maybe they can just "print" as many Reis they want. I feel in the NGE there was an implicit statement that only one Rei with "a soul" could exist at one time (even if they have tanks of them) and that "a soul" could be imprinted on another vessel and possibly "fractioned" (Asuka's mother) but not duplicated in multiple copies... Maybe I was wrong with that.

I suppose the common sense inference I'd make is that they wanted a pilot around even after 3I just to continue research & development (just like they needed Rei to pilot and as an essential prop to develop Eva-00) on OPFER Evas and the Ayanami series... And that's sensible enough on a plot level. I don't know it makes for a satisfying story though.

Per the Rebuild films, we know that :
- Gendo arranged / planned for Shinji and Rei to get closer. Per the events of the film, we infer because he had some convoluted intricate plan to set things in motion to awaken Unit 01 as it did in the second film (or at the very least to have a tighter grip on Shinji, if we don't speculate anything).
- That's I imagine why the Ayanami series were programmed to care for Shinji ? That jumped at me as a bit of excessive writing but supposedly Seele and Gendo are going by this intricate music paper sheet plan so... I think the original series did well enough without having to justify this in so deterministic a manner. I would understand it better if that was programmed loyalty to Ikaris or obedience to Gendo that would spill over to Shinji (there's very much a transitive property at play in that triangle of characters).
- Seems reasonable to suspect Rei had a mechanical role to play in the off screen 3I with the giant severed head in Nerv HQ.
- They needed to release the 12th Angel from Mk.6 and couldn't leave that task to Kaworu, Shinji, and maybe any of those Mk.4 derivatives or a drone either ?
- I suppose if you go full Gendo Master of the Keikaku having an Anayami clone at the ready was also useful in retrieving Shinji from the Wunder at the beginning of 3 (depends on how you interpret Shinji hearing her voice to begin with ?) and maintaining compliance through the events of 3 though no effort is made to brief Rei Q on keeping up appearances she's "his" Rei ?

Beyond that point though, Rei doesn't really serve a purpose as a character for Neo-Nerv. Fuyutsuki asks Gendo if he purposely lets Rei Q plop just to stick the dagger again in Shinji but that's probably not a part of Seele or Gendo's grand plan if Fuyutsuki has to wonder aloud. Nevermind that's another example of "Gendo somehow being able to plan up to every individual minute to minute choices". I guess he could have tried to retrieve her by force from the village or radioed her ? Doesn't seem like he had any say in Rei Q deciding to eject from Mk.9, follow Shinji along (not a guarantee to begin with both entry plug would have ejected within reach of one another ?) and decided to harvest rice with seasoned older women.

This is a little bit of a rambling but in NGE, Rei has a pivotal mechanical role in the Plan™, Unit-00 has uses almost up to the last Angel (longer than what SEELE planned for, it seems) and of course there's also the emotional and symbolic uses she serves for Gendo (and the story), which I feel are all strong in story justifications for why an artificially created person at the mercy of the whims of her masters is there all throughout. But even that last facet is non existant in Rebuild from 3, she shares the same scene with Gendo as Shinji and Kaworu when he briefs his son very shortly about Eva-13 ? And I guess she gets "her orders" off screen ? Gendo in Thrice has that line of looking for Yui everywhere but only seeing Rei within that mini-instrumentality at the end but it doesn't feel to me the film really earned or laid down the foundations for this.

That's not to say that character growth and arcs are meaningless without being part of that larger sum of the plot or that every film or fiction should adopt this neat, artificial structure of everything perfectly aligning like clockwork... I do think the Rebuilds do suffer from it even if part of their interest also lies in how they go off the rails too.

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby Konja7 » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:05 am

View Original PostAsuQa_PsyOp_Langley wrote:Beyond that point though, Rei doesn't really serve a purpose as a character for Neo-Nerv. Fuyutsuki asks Gendo if he purposely lets Rei Q plop just to stick the dagger again in Shinji but that's probably not a part of Seele or Gendo's grand plan if Fuyutsuki has to wonder aloud. Nevermind that's another example of "Gendo somehow being able to plan up to every individual minute to minute choices". I guess he could have tried to retrieve her by force from the village or radioed her ? Doesn't seem like he had any say in Rei Q deciding to eject from Mk.9, follow Shinji along (not a guarantee to begin with both entry plug would have ejected within reach of one another ?) and decided to harvest rice with seasoned older women.


Yeah. Rei Q doesn't have a role for SEELE and Gendo after the events of 3.0. That's why Gendo doesn't have an issue to let her die to hurt Shinji, but this seems more a personal "lesson" Gendo wanted to teach Shinji.

That said, Rei II's soul inside Eva-01 likely still had a role for Gendo's plan, since Gendo needed Eva-01. However, Rei II gives the control of Eva-01 to Shinji.

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby AsuQa_PsyOp_Langley » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:47 am

Yes, but Rei on a whole has very little active participation.
I'm really torn about those Rebuilds. I take a great bit of fun and pleasure watching them. I'm really not a big "but the lore !" guy, or so I think. But I can't help but think that by themselves the overall story is clunky and a much less elegant and effective vehicles for the message, the themes, etc... Why is Rei face everywhere ? I think it is a bit of an harrowing question for this film, even if we can come up with many justifications for it.

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby nerv bae » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:12 am

It really is a harrowing question. My recent shitpost from a different Rei-head topic:

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Some spitballing as I reach for non-meta solutions to this lore problem:

1) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because the spears convey information about giantness (Lilith, 1.0), nakedness (ibid), and Rei-ness (Unit 01, 2.0) between targets. In other words, Longinus learned about being giant and naked from being impaled in Lilith, and Cassius learned about Rei (and heck, Yui) from being impaled in Unit 01, and these learnings survive interim impalements in Lilith, Mark 06 (nota bene: within which is a 12th Angel that likes to turn into a giant Rei head), and Unit 13 to be conveyed into Evangelion Imaginary, influencing it to manifest as a GNR when it enters reality. After all, when Gendo is monologuing in front of black Lilith he makes a point about spears and information.

2) 3+1's Evangelion Imaginary manifests as a GNR because it previously observed the timeskip's Third Impact through the Gates of Guf and took away lessons about how to behave in reality. Through the Gates, it would have seen a giant naked Lilith, as well as a 12th Angel (whether contained in Mark 06 or not) that liked to manifest giant Rei heads, and thought "okay, if I ever leave the Golgotha Object and head down there, that's how I'm going to be."

This is basically a shitpost and I don't have high conviction in either option. :fuyu_facepalm:

Maybe -46h will connect some of the dots.

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Re: Why is Rei face everywhere?

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Postby Cookie H Wilson » Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:50 pm

:D Interesting
But I really do think we lack of datas
I would not give away the Lilith-Rei connection ad it was in the TV series and Unit 01- Lilith connections
Also… rewatching 3.0 and then 03+1.0 I see that in sone imagery Rei is still link to the Moon which also changed shape on her landscapes (with that red/core grid pattern )
WoW I would so love to have some concrete infos to connect the dots myself
That’s why I keep of asking this question all over EvaGeeks Forum :D :D
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