Mari’s “first time piloting Eva”

[Archer]

I know this was discussed and answered somewhere but I have no idea how to start looking for that so I’ll just ask again for simplicity.

What is the original Japanese wording of Mari’s line in the 2.0 intro sequence where she says something along the lines of “this is my first time piloting an Eva”?

Is it more along the lines of “This is my first time piloting the Eva in an actual combat scenario” or “This is literally my first time getting into the fucking robot”?

[Szmitten]

I don't have a JP script but I can play it by ear.

Tech asks in english: "Pilot, please specify linguistic norm for cognitive functions."

Mari replies: "Eto, hajimete nande nihongo de."

Hyper literally, that's: "[Uhm], [first time] [why*] [Japanese] [in*]."

Realistically it's: "Uhm, it's the first time so how about in Japanese."

*Never trust anyone who asks for or offers a literal translation.

Either way it sounds like it's the first time she's interfacing with the system at all.

[Archer]

That almost seems like it could be interpreted as “this is my first time piloting this particular Eva which is notably different from all other Eva units, so please give me the control scheme in a language I’m more familiar with”. Is this line the ONLY mention of it being the first time of anything?

[Melkor]

Is this line the ONLY mention of it being the first time of anything?

If I remember, there was also a line later (I think after she ejects) where she says something along the lines of "nobody told me it would be this rough", also implying that she has never experienced piloting an EVA before.

[reeds column]

The first thing you hear in 222 before the lights come on is the sound of bubbling liquid and then breathing. Imo Mari is an angel or human/angel hybrid (first thing she sees in the helmet display looks like an angel mask) and this is her birth after being extracted from the weird "pseudo Entry Plug" in the Third Angel's spine. Also note that this is where Kaji gets Nebuchadnezzar's Key from and Bethany Base is a giant egg.

[Derantor]

@reeds column: That does sound intriguing. Tell me more, please.

[DantesInferno]

There's also the dialogue with Kaji when she gets in the Eva, where he apoligizes for the event being in such circumstances, to which she responds:

やっと載せてくれたから、いい

Which translates to "You finally let me pilot, so it's ok".

It does not sound like they finally let her pilot Unit-05 specifically (as opposed to other Evas she might have previously piloted), but rather "I finally get to pilot any Eva ever (no pun intended), so I don't mind it's this provisional unit".

[nerv bae]

I know this was discussed and answered somewhere but I have no idea how to start looking for that so I’ll just ask again for simplicity.

We got into it a bit here (links to search results in a specific topic).

The first thing you hear in 222 before the lights come on is the sound of bubbling liquid and then breathing. Imo Mari is an angel or human/angel hybrid (first thing she sees in the helmet display looks like an angel mask)

Here's the helmet display:

SPOILER: Show

I can kinda see it, neat! (Lol, Anno why are R and L reversed?! Is she looking backwards?! EDIT: yes, the pair of current collectors are topside-rear of Eva-05, so Mari does boot up looking backwards for some reason.)

[reeds column]

@reeds column: That does sound intriguing. Tell me more, please.

Sure! The reason I think Mari has some angel stuff going on is that opening scene has a lot of similarities to ancient creation myths where a god battles a serpent. (there was a Mesopotamian city named Mari.)


Kaji says when giving Gendo the Key, that Bethany Base was the location of the "Marduk Plan" referencing the Mesopotamian Enuma Elish creation myth where the storm god Marduk rides a chariot (why Unit05 has wheels) into battle and defeats the goddess of the sea Tiamat, whose belly was filled with the next generation of warring gods (legs protruding from 3rd Angel's swollen midsection.) Cutting through her "channels of blood" (red and blue tubes) with an "invincible spear," and smashing her skull (core.) Tiamat is split in half to create the heavens and the earth.

This is similar to the Ugaritic Baal Cycle, a seasonal myth where the storm god Baal-Hadad defeats the sea god Yam but is then killed and eaten by the desert god Mot, the personification of death. His partner Anat, goddess of love and war, avenges Baal by splitting Mot with a blade, obliterating it.


In one of the oldest Hindu texts the Rig Veda 1:32,4:18 the dragon Vritra has imprisoned the waters of the world. The storm god Indra is then born, fully formed, from the side of the womb of the mother of celestial gods Aditi, has their jaw broken in two and immediately slays Vritra with a thunderbolt, freeing the waters and flying away like a bird.

SPOILER: Show

The book The Arctic Home in the Vedas argues that this story was written in the north pole and the "freeing of the waters" is glaciers melting at the end of an ice age, explaining Kaji's line about the permafrost excavation and the location of the base.


Also the Bible's Book of Job has a description of the Leviathan that matches up pretty well with the 3rd Angel.

SPOILER: Show

Job 41:12 - 31

“I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
    its strength and its graceful form.
Who can strip off its outer coat?
    Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
    ringed about with fearsome teeth?
Its back has rows of shields
    tightly sealed together;
each is so close to the next
    that no air can pass between.
They are joined fast to one another;
    they cling together and cannot be parted.
Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
    its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
Flames stream from its mouth;
    sparks of fire shoot out.
Smoke pours from its nostrils
    as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
Its breath sets coals ablaze,
    and flames dart from its mouth.
Strength resides in its neck;
    dismay goes before it.
The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
    they are firm and immovable.
Its chest is hard as rock,
    hard as a lower millstone.
When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
    they retreat before its thrashing.
The sword that reaches it has no effect,
    nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
Iron it treats like straw
    and bronze like rotten wood.
Arrows do not make it flee;
    slingstones are like chaff to it.
A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
    it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
    leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
    and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

[ElMariachi]

Sure! The reason I think Mari has some angel stuff going on is that opening scene has a lot of similarities to ancient creation myths where a god battles a serpent. (there was a Mesopotamian city named Mari.)

Personally I'm going with the Occam's Razor approach and that the sound of liquid and breathing we hear at the beginning of 2.0 is simply EVA-05's entry plug filling with LCL and Mari breathing in it. The similarity between her battle against the Third Angel and this Mesopotamian myth is cool if that was really an inspiration, but I think that it's more a simple nod to foreign and exotic mythology rather than a hint that Mari is actually an Angel or something like that.

The staff have said in the past that we shouldn't look too much all the Kabbalist and Christian imagery because it's here just because it looks cool and exotic. That makes me remember how many people wracked their brain on the symbols on the ground of the room where Kaworu was in the old "next time preview" in 2.0, looking at symbols in ancient myths, until Thrice revealed that those actually were an obscure reference to an episode of Ultraman.

[DantesInferno]

The staff have said in the past that we shouldn't look too much all the Kabbalist and Christian imagery because it's here just because it looks cool and exotic. That makes me remember how many people wracked their brain on the symbols on the ground of the room where Kaworu was in the old "next time preview" in 2.0, looking at symbols in ancient myths, until Thrice revealed that those actually were an obscure reference to an episode of Ultraman.

To be fair, the connection between the symbols and Ultraman was know since the time of Q, at least among Japanese circles... (e.g. this website last updated in 2014)

[Kendrix]

I'd like to stress that "piloting physically freezes your aging" or that there is a discrete phenomenon called "curse of eva" was a fan theory to begin with.

There's no evidence that Asuka didn't mean it metaphorically (as Misato in ep 23) - elsewhere it has been pointed out that she uses a word for "Curse" that's similar to how the limiters on the EVAs are described.

What Asuka says in the final movie ("just like the EVAs, us pilots were designed with limits") would suggest that it's the Rebuild pilots' artificial nature that caused them not to age, not a physical change induced by piloting itself.

There's no reason not to take at face value that this is indeed Mari's first time piloting. In 2.0 she just charges the enemy in a daze of bloodlust whereas by Q she shows much more skill & restraint.

[BernardoCairo]

That's true. But you have to take two things into consideration.
First, Asuka's "dehumanization" developed over time (it apparently was a process that took years to reach its peak, as Asuka aged and could eat and sleep for many years before these "limitations" started to show up). Secondly, she outright states to Shinji that he should eat his food while he can (implying that he will be like her eventually). She also remarks on how his body can't handle the L-barrier yet.
If you consider Shinji not to be an artificial pilot of some sort too (the fanbase is split on that, of course), then you have no other option than to reflect upon these lines of hers.

[ElMariachi]

Personally I took it that the moments when Asuka, Mari and Shinji were "cursed" were in 2.0 when each dived past the safe plug depth (Asuka when Bardiel took control of Unit 03, Mari with Beast Mode and Shinji when he pseudo-awoke Unit 01), each time having Ritsuko commenting that their humanity was at risk, since it's the simplest explanation and a situation that all three have in common.

Of course there's then the problem of Mari who's supposed to be around Yui and Co's age, but unless we get some details on her past, the only thing I can do is shrug.

[Konja7]

She also remarks on how his body can't handle the L-barrier yet.

I remember scenes implying that Shinji's body couldn't totally handle the red Earth (in 3.0+1.0, Shinji seems to be affected when the battery of his pluigsuit runs out), but I don't remember Asuka mentioning this.

What is the scene where Asuka mentioned this?

[BernardoCairo]

I had a vague memory of she saying something in the vey beginning of the movie. Perhaps I confused myself... But the point still stands.

[Kendrix]

I had a vague memory of she saying something in the vey beginning of the movie. Perhaps I confused myself... But the point still stands.

I think you might be mixing something up with the scene where she tells him he still needs to eat.

That's true. But you have to take two things into consideration.
First, Asuka's "dehumanization" developed over time (it apparently was a process that took years to reach its peak, as Asuka aged and could eat and sleep for many years before these "limitations" started to show up). Secondly, she outright states to Shinji that he should eat his food while he can (implying that he will be like her eventually). She also remarks on how his body can't handle the L-barrier yet.
If you consider Shinji not to be an artificial pilot of some sort too (the fanbase is split on that, of course), then you have no other option than to reflect upon these lines of hers.

At that point there was no plans for Shinji ever going back inside an EVA, no I don't see how that supports the theory that it's a result of piloting, the wording there suggest it would happen to him one way or another. 'you're still a pseudo-lilim' so not a regular ol' Lillim.

When she says the eva pilots were designed, its clearly a plural.
we do see Yui actually being pregnant, but she could have implanted a genetically modified embryo.

Or, depending on how you interpret Gendo's line about how Yui & the Golgatha object, Shinji is half FAR and the other pilots were designed to mimic his biology. But Yui seems to be a normal university student in the past, so Gendo might simply mean that he is hoping to "find" her there, or that she somehow experienced what lies beyond the doors of Guf when she merged with EVA 01


Something to consider is that the differences between the three endings are implied to be the result of Kaworu messing with the timeline. He wanted to free Shinji & co from their fates, but instead the result was a world where their paths are even more predetermined, all the pilots literally designed & programmed to fill the same roles & have the same dynamics. He must have facepalmed so hard on arrival.

Since some of the MCs get a glipmse into the OG timeline (Rebuild!Gendo knows EoE!Rei ditched him, for example), it's interesting to consider that from the PoV of their Rebuild selves. Like from the POV of Clone!Asuka, she'd kind of see how she would have turned out more or less as fucked up if she had human parents. & Shinji must have been constantly thinking "if only I hadn't awakened EVA 01"... but that leads to a scenario where he ends up setting off Third Impact willingly. So the first two timelines kind of fill a role like the AU sequences (the highschool AU from ep 26 and the "world without Shinji" thing)

One could HC that Mari's donor existed in the OG timeline roughly like her manga counterpart did & was liquidated for knowing too much (Some interpret Yui's line about how "its easy to destroy people" she was afraid of this happening to her if she didn't jump in EVA 01)or turning against Gendo's group (hence, 'Iskariot'), but the artificial pilot making technology existing in Rebuild allowed Mari's donor to create Mari Makinami (same naming scheme as the other clones), and then enter EVA 08. (possibly after leaving a backup of her memories stored somewhere. )

[DantesInferno]

Ritsuko repeatedly uses the warning phrase "人に戻れなくなる" (lit. "(he/she/you) won't be able to return to human") whenever some pilot's entry plug reaches dangerous depths (whether it's Mari in Eva-02, Shinji after awakening Eva-01, or Asuka's entry plug being pulled in during the Eva-03 experiment, if I remember correctly).

And when Asuka complaints about her body not changing except her hair before Operation Yamato, Mari mentions that it means she's still human. From this we could infer that going beyond the threshold depth (into the Eva's core) results in your body not changing (except the hair).

Core is what matter turns into when it is "purified" by the L containment field, and the pilots certainly are not lilim anymore, and they can walk the core-ified land without harm for the most part.

Perhaps entring into deep contact with an Eva's core somehow purifies the lilim without "tanging" them (or maybe this applies only to the pilots/clones, not -say- someone like Misato...?).

But at the same time, the pilots clearly have their brains pretty much intact, hence still "carry the Fruit of Knowledge", so what gives...

[Konja7]

At that point there was no plans for Shinji ever going back inside an EVA, no I don't see how that supports the theory that it's a result of piloting, the wording there suggest it would happen to him one way or another. 'you're still a pseudo-lilim' so not a regular ol' Lillim.

When she says the eva pilots were designed, its clearly a plural.
we do see Yui actually being pregnant, but she could have implanted a genetically modified embryo.

Honestly, when Asuka said pilots, I think she was speaking especifially about herself and Rei. I know her words could sound general, but the context is a talk between Asuka and Rei.

I don't think just piloting Eva makes the pilots into "pseudo-lilins", but I don't think Shinji was a modified embryo either.

Shinji started to be a "pseudo-lilim" after he awakened Eva-01 and fused with it. The fact Shinji is "still a pseudo-lilim" implies his changes have started pretty recently, which goes against the modified embryo theory.

Something to consider is that the differences between the three endings are implied to be the result of Kaworu messing with the timeline. He wanted to free Shinji & co from their fates, but instead the result was a world where their paths are even more predetermined, all the pilots literally designed & programmed to fill the same roles & have the same dynamics. He must have facepalmed so hard on arrival.

I don't think Kaworu really influence the timeline. I think things are just different every new life.

Kaworu remembers previous lives, but it's implied his memories start when he is born as Kaworu in the coffins. I doubt he has the memories of Adam (in the same way that Rei doesn't have memories of Lilith).