Gendo and Shinji Being Alike

[mirai_ow]

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before but it was something I noticed on reviewings and thought it was interesting. Before the lines in the second image, Shinji says that his father was "just like him" after a sudden realization. To add to that there's a scene in 2.0 where he says something very similar to what Gendo says in the scene. Both talk about headphones as a form of escapism/defense mechanism from the world they dislike, and both scenes take place on the train with very similar color palettes. I love how 3.0+1.0 really drove home the point of "Like Father, Like Son" phrase with Shinji and Gendo, and the scene following a little after this one where he finally gives Shinji a hug almost broke me.

[Axx°N N.]

They're also alike in that they don't consider music part of the world or musicians "others."

[jeffythedragonslayer]

They're also alike in that they don't consider music part of the world or musicians "others."

Please elaborate~

[FelipeFritschF]

This is a pretty established interpretation for years and one I'm particularly fond of: Gendo as a negative adult Shinji who grew up making all the wrong choices, whereas Kaj is a more positive mirror, with the same also applying to Ritsuko, Asuka and Misato respectively, as well as their relationships.

[Axx°N N.]

They're also alike in that they don't consider music part of the world or musicians "others."

Please elaborate~

I'm being a bit pedantic, but, it's a sort of fallacy of perspective. Music is part of the outside world and is made by others. Engaging with it as self-isolation alone requires actively ignoring what part of listening to music is an engagement with those outside yourself and what part of making music in the first place is motivated out of a desire to connect through expression--both of these have to do with the heart. I think even the most reclusive irl individuals who would say they use it as self-isolation still actively receive a sense of connection out of it. It doesn't appear to be the case in NTE, because it's more important as symbolism, to the point of overriding and replacing the literal. In other words, the SDAT could have been anything--Asuka's game system, manga, whatever. The topic of music for its own sake doesn't matter much ... I suppose you can draw thematic connections from Shinji's case, because Kaworu is presented as musical, and their piano duet contrasts with Shinji's headphone isolation. In Gendo's case, though, I tend to ask myself what music he could have possibly been listening to--perhaps Frank Sinatra's "My Way" on endless loop? Anyway, it doesn't really matter because it's moreso there to parallel Shinji and doesn't go beyond that ... there's no musicality to anything related to Gendo or anything, beyond NTE injecting the whole "Gendo gave Shinji his old SDAT" set-up for Thrice's payoff.

[LucAAAs]

An important element for this comparison is the possible parallel between Gendo trying to save Yui throughout Eva and Shinji trying to save Rei in 2.0, both women were absorbed by a core and attempts to reconnect with them resulted in impacts.
Shinji learning to move on is an important theme of Shin, in opposition to Gendo who cant accept death and refuses to move forward. When Shinji matures he gets to meet Rei II again inside the entry plug of 01 and in intrumentality, and Gendo only reunites with Yui as Eva 13 and 1 after he realized that she lives on inside Shinji. I didnt really understand what the weakness that impedes Gendo from Yui was and how it was resolved, but the parallel between the two remains.
NTE in my opinion made Gendo a more compelling character, fleshing out his issues and motivations, not justifying, but humanizing and properly concluding them. There is another topic in the Rebuild Discussion section about his morality in NTE and how his behavior indicates Schizoid personality disorder, it is a really good read.

[dzzthink]

Please elaborate~

I'm being a bit pedantic, but, it's a sort of fallacy of perspective. Music is part of the outside world and is made by others. Engaging with it as self-isolation alone requires actively ignoring what part of listening to music is an engagement with those outside yourself and what part of making music in the first place is motivated out of a desire to connect through expression--both of these have to do with the heart. I think even the most reclusive irl individuals who would say they use it as self-isolation still actively receive a sense of connection out of it. It doesn't appear to be the case in NTE, because it's more important as symbolism, to the point of overriding and replacing the literal. In other words, the SDAT could have been anything--Asuka's game system, manga, whatever. The topic of music for its own sake doesn't matter much ... I suppose you can draw thematic connections from Shinji's case, because Kaworu is presented as musical, and their piano duet contrasts with Shinji's headphone isolation. In Gendo's case, though, I tend to ask myself what music he could have possibly been listening to--perhaps Frank Sinatra's "My Way" on endless loop? Anyway, it doesn't really matter because it's moreso there to parallel Shinji and doesn't go beyond that ... there's no musicality to anything related to Gendo or anything, beyond NTE injecting the whole "Gendo gave Shinji his old SDAT" set-up for Thrice's payoff.

I think Shinji is not completely closed out from the world like his father and I would say that even the need to hold on the recorder of music reflects Shinji's desire to be closer to his father. For Gendo, it seems he also exhibits tendencies to close himself out from the world with absolutely no engagement with anyone outside of his wish to be reunited with his wife. This can be seen with his glazed glasses, which may suggest near-sightedness but I would also say suggests symbolizes his blindness to reality or his refusal to leave his inner world (not to say people wearing glasses are all narrow-minded), as well as his constant gendo finger crossing which in terms of body language means he wants to hide something. His bruised and scarred hands also mean that he is hiding his trauma behind white gloves that he carries around.

I think there are some interesting elements of what you say regarding music being an engagement with reality as well as companionship regarding his duets with Kaworu. Sadly, I am unable to connect with anyone regarding music as I never tend to share music tastes with anyone and I have never played a musical instrument. I find music almost distracting at time when I am trying to get some things done so I actually refrain from listening to anything that might overstimulate my sense. These days there is no doubt that music has a significant influence in the outside world as a tool for others to connect, and I myself take great interest in video games as a way to communicate with others or share a common bond. Shinji has the opportunity to express the same virtues of shared connection in the original series as well. In the series, he could well have talked to Asuka about his cello playing or in the Rebuild he could talk about their interest in cooking skills. You get the sense he tries to connect to Rei regarding their sense of shared connection within the Eva.

[Axx°N N.]

I think Shinji is not completely closed out from the world like his father and I would say that even the need to hold on the recorder of music reflects Shinji's desire to be closer to his father. For Gendo, it seems he also exhibits tendencies to close himself out from the world with absolutely no engagement with anyone outside of his wish to be reunited with his wife. This can be seen with his glazed glasses, which may suggest near-sightedness but I would also say suggests symbolizes his blindness to reality or his refusal to leave his inner world (not to say people wearing glasses are all narrow-minded), as well as his constant gendo finger crossing which in terms of body language means he wants to hide something. His bruised and scarred hands also mean that he is hiding his trauma behind white gloves that he carries around.

This is a wonderful summary and made me think of these elements in a more holistic way than I have prior. I've always taken the glint on the glasses to suggest his insight above others around him as it's usually in moments when he's got the upper hand; I suppose that is a form of isolation too, though. We can make comparisons to Keel and Misato's Wille goggles; it always seems to be authority figures high in a chain of command. And then we have reversals; Misato slowly returning to her more recognizable style, Keel melts into a puddle, discarding his tech.

Gendo seems to always have an arc of accumulating shielding layers and then having them reversed ... except in EoTV, I guess, where he sees no comeuppance. I've never thought about it before, but it's ironic that such an insular man has as his goal a shedding of ego and a joining of everyone. Or maybe in some involuted way, that makes the most sense, everyone always actually seeking their unconscious opposite. Factoring in that his motivations are personal at their core in a way that isn't just contradictory, perhaps it all points back to a desire on his part to escape himself. I think it's this that makes him the counterpart to Shinji. Every time Gendo withdraws he sinks deeper; most times Shinji runs away, he ends up finding himself with better clarity, even as early as episode 4.

Perhaps father and son also share an impairment and inability in loving a partner without succumbing to identity crisis.

Back to the glasses, though; in terms of visual language, we've got Mari doing the same glint, and it's in a scene where she displays some kind of upper-hand secret knowledge. I wonder if there's something there that can be teased out having to do with her wish to escape her privileged position; maybe Mari is also a candidate of an anti-Gendo, someone who fully inhabits herself and wishes to divert ego loss.

I guess in terms of visual language, I've always taken her glasses as an indication of higher or clearer insight than other characters; not just because she wears them, but because as iconography they're always emphasized and the language of scenes involving her always accounts for what's happening with her glasses; obscured by the sunset, broken in battle, lost when she meets Shinji, or lowered to match Shinji eye to eye in the last train station scene.

In the series, he could well have talked to Asuka about his cello playing or in the Rebuild he could talk about their interest in cooking skills. You get the sense he tries to connect to Rei regarding their sense of shared connection within the Eva.

This is a really interesting point. Now that I think about it, it's an interesting and rather deliberate choice to have as the framing device for Death(true)^2 something totally absent from the series but that in all logic should (or could) have occurred and is almost jarring in how simultaneously fitting but unfitting, and rendered non-canonical with Kaworu's presence. It reiterates that so many of the creative choices during the end of the original revoked possibilities and depressed the character situations, often involuntarily but also often because of a character's own hang-ups. Contrasting to Rebuild, the scenes that are injected retroactively are group activities and connection points; cooking, eating, the trip to the aquatic restoration facility. And it's of course a similarly deliberate choice to center so much of Shin's first half on agriculture.

EDIT: Accidental double post, sorry!
Accidental double post merged, no worries - staff

[dzzthink]

Yeah I agree there are big differences. Also want to add the fact that in thrice upon a time, Gendo has completely lost his eyes - therefore completely dissociated with reality. There's also a reddit post about him having sanpaku eyes in the series (probably not relevant): https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/com ... do_design/

I give credit to Anno for at least attempting to show more details of Shinji's growth in the rebuild series and give Gendo a brief montage at the end. Interestingly, the stark drawings of Gendo contrast with Shinji turmoil in the end of evangelion and also ep 25&26.