Where do we go from here?

[PSIWasHere]

After watching Shin Eva for the second time last night, I've begun to question a lot. Considering that the entire point of the movie is saying goodbye to that which is Evangelion, and that we must also, are we as a community actively going against the entire point of it by continuing to discuss and dissect it? How cruel it is that a series so dense must be forgotten for our sake. In all seriousness, where do we go from here? is our continual discussion a detriment to Shin Eva?

[JB2448]

There'll be plenty of fresh eyes and perspectives to keep both the Evangelion fandom and the franchise itself alive. Hopefully the same can be said for EvaGeeks too.

Try not to worry too much. Evangelion makes too much money for the IP to be abandoned entirely.

[PSIWasHere]

Try not to worry too much. Evangelion makes too much money for the IP to be abandoned entirely.

I get this, Evangelion will persist and withstand the test of time, It has already made its mark as something immovable, but is our constant attention to Evangelion just proving we don't actively understand it? Or that we don't attempt to? Given New Theatrical's message of 'moving on', are we just desecrating on that which we love when we have been told not to? I don't know what to think.

[FelipeFritschF]

If you must know, Anno has made his intentions to continue the franchise, through other creators, abundandly clear.

Though EGF isn't all that active, every other Eva community I'm in is exploding in size, having grown anywhere for 3 to 6 times as much since Shin's initial Japanese release in March 8th. I know and am involved in several promising fan projects as well as the procurement of information from the Japanese sources and fandom. Anno's whole "I hate otaku" shtick is... a simplification, to say the least. You can be a fan of something without it consuming your life, and Anno himself is a good example. After all, right now he is off to remake the TV shows he liked when he was 7.

--Now that "Evangelion" has finally reached its conclusion with this film, what are your honest feelings about it?
Anno: I just thought, "It's over". And now I can move on.

September, 1997: https://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by ... .2F1997.29

[Axx°N N.]

I think in a similar way that the original was oft misinterpreted to be some pontificating message about how running away is bad (Anno has insisted the exact opposite is his opinion, that actually running away can be freeing), too much is being made out of the idea that Shin is some invective against engaging with Evangelion. It's true the film is highly metatextual and has clear themes about moving on from Evangelion not just as in-universe things, but as a real-world franchise, but I think that's moreso Anno putting himself into the work; he's expressing his own experience being stuck in the purgatory of never finishing it and being able to let it go. If the film was meant as persuasive argument, self-help book diatribe, or encouragement to disengage with Evangelion, each of those are failed messages because we'll inevitably get a Bluray, there's going to be a CRC, there's a new international release of NGE, Anno hasn't gone to the merch factories and shut off the pipelines, etc. Anno's entire livelihood depends on people not disengaging with Evangelion commercially. If Khara truly meant the takeaway to be "you can't be grown up unless you put Evangelion aside," they wouldn't have been pushing for repeat viewings or launching massively marketed, massively merched last-run theater campaigns.

As for our discussions here, I don't think Anno intends to paint intensive engagement with interests as inherently restricting, limiting, or stunting, because he obviously has geeky factoid knowledge about his interests and has opinions you can only have if you're engaged in the greater community of intensively liking a thing.

Frankly I don't understand the eagerness of so many who want to take the message as "the way to be grown up is to stop caring about media." Are all literary critics children? Is it inherently childish to engage with media? I understand the toxic elements of the fanbase are just that, and that there's a difference between spending your career studying Shakespeare and engaging in Asuka vs. Rei waifu arguments, but the impression I get from a lot of "Shin is telling us what to do and think" narratives is that it's less mature than it is anti-intellectual, or at least hostile to dissent; "if you haven't moved on you haven't understood" is very much strawmanning, as if the minute you begin to do anything but smile and feel content you're erring from the true adult path as laid out by Anno, of all people, who even recently said he's unfit for society.

I don't think it was his intention, but if Anno did mean Shin as some kind of "this isn't real, go do real things" thesis, to me it's just a bankrupt and impotent stance that cynically denies the possibility that anime can be more than just a consumer product or 2 and a half hour entertainment piece meant to be disposed of afterward. NGE and EoE were already something more than just anime to me, and still hold up as storytelling that rewards with repeat viewing & discussion, unlike rebuild which, ironically, more closely resembles the kinds of films that do nothing to advance the artistic integrity of their medium. If it's true that anime is too often disengaged with what's real, the solution is to strive to make something real. The actual "where do we go from here?" dilemma is that Shin just doesn't seem rewarding or like it will hold up in that way. Beyond the tidy character resolutions and the theme of moving on, there isn't really anything to sink into intellectually or philosophically like there is with a great book or film. Really, anyone who was satisfied or dissatisfied with it and wants to move on should, and there's far more meaningful, life-affirming experiences to be had in art made by people who think art can do that and who are serious about doing that instead of constantly centering the camera on ass shots and badly choreographed action scenes.

[FelipeFritschF]

Quite so. Unfortunately this is a side effect of the enduring myths around EoTV+EoE and Anno's revenge on the stinkin' nerds. This is so perversive it really has poisoned a lot of fandom discussion in the West, more so than the idea that Eva is a small cult franchise - though this one is much more prevalent in the English-speaking fandom, and it kinda feeds those other myhts, too.

It is ironic, though, that Anno was so outspoken about his intentions to utilize NTE and Khara to help revitalize the anime industry, and NTE would at least partly be used to fund those efforts, but you can definitely debate on the effectiveness of the actual film in doing that. I understand the themes, but the execution feels off to me. Now, I think animtor Expo was a brilliant initiative and I have noted elsewhere that Shin heavily utilized new talent - Khara is full of it, Matsubara in place of Racist Uncle, I mean, Sameface Sadamoto is a good example. Though they do lack directing talent, at least for now. Yet at the same time, Anno is more than well funded by additional sources, not just the perennial merch machine:

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

Overall, to the surprise of these lazy Western journos and youtubers, the Eva franchise has a bright future ahead, since it literally broke numerous records, even if didn't achieve omnipresent popularity like Demon Slayer. Then again, this is not too dissimilar from NGE+EoE at the time. Eva has reignited its social phenomenom status more than once. After 6 months of incessant events, PR stunts, varied statements and interviews, the re-release and prequel manga, and now the 3.333 extras, I'm actually impressed at just how much they've already milked this cow. Besides what you've mentioned, a new manga and/or anime should happen before too long. Anno is so tsundere about the franchise, I wouldn't even be surprised if he does come back himself at some point, not unlike post-EoTV. This still feels to me, alas, more like EoTV 2 than EoE 2.

At the screening, I had a chance to talk with Kazuya Tsurumaki, and he and I were talking about whether or not it would have been better if the word "End of Story" hadn't been included (laughs). We talked about the possibility of having a different world from the current one, and that there are many more possibilities. Oh, but please don't get me wrong, please don't expect anything (laughs)

“When we started post recording this film, I asked Anno if it was really going to end. And Anno replied that it was going to end. I told him, 'I'm going to miss it,' and he said, 'I'll miss it, but I can't help it. It ending.' (laughs)

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Evangelion_3. ... anslations

[Axx°N N.]

Anno is more than well funded by additional sources, not just the perennial merch machine:

SPOILER: Show

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

I've often heard of his real estate speculation activities but never was able to find a source, thanks. I suppose to ammend what I meant: Anno's ability to speculate in the first place was dependent on Eva's commercial success.

[pir2confusion]

Try not to worry too much. Evangelion makes too much money for the IP to be abandoned entirely.

I get this, Evangelion will persist and withstand the test of time, It has already made its mark as something immovable, but is our constant attention to Evangelion just proving we don't actively understand it? Or that we don't attempt to? Given New Theatrical's message of 'moving on', are we just desecrating on that which we love when we have been told not to? I don't know what to think.

I'm maybe not sure you should only look at the film in one way. First I think if you are truly obsessed about Evangelion or any addiction finding a balance in life or getting help is good advice no matter what the film is about. I thought the message of the film is explained at the beginning not at the end and was about everyone working together. A goal in the TV series EOE was instrumentality forcing all of humanity into one heart/soul/mind/being. In rebuild Anno and Kaji has given an antithesis to Seele/Gendo/Yui's instrumentality. The Wille/Kredit/Village is working together as separate people organizations with one goal to make sure life goes on. The journey of Rei is becoming a part of the village and Shinji who at first rejects the world wants to protect the village. Shinji isn't piloting the eva for himself and is not even being asked to pilot an eva anymore but decides by himself to join the Wunder. So the message is about working together.

[evagunpla]

We have the 14 year old gap Anno never addressed.

He could tell that story if he wanted too.

[Luigi shinji]

The chance for an american made live action Evangelion movie/show not being a shit show is 0 to nothing but I thought a lot about it recently how could be good.

So recently I watched the netflix big hit show Narcos for the first time. That show is a US made product but with a mostly latin american cast. I think this is proofs that Americans can make good product's from a forgin base story.

So my imaginery live action Evangelion would be a netflix show with a Japanese cast for the Japanese characters, but to make it more apealing to the amercan cast I would add a side plot where an American agent is try to investigate Seele and this agent may be interact with Kaji and Misato.

I think a western adaptation of Evangelion like this would not be as bad as let's say the western adaptation of death note.

But I would like to know what you guys think about it.

[PSIWasHere]

I'm maybe not sure you should only look at the film in one way.

Perhaps so, I've just been dwelling on that one sort of proposed meaning because I've heard so much about it as of late and It really seemed to dissatisfy me that I personally couldn't find meaning in my own conclusions.

[profesor_rod]

I don't think that the "Good-bye to all evangelion" tagline should be interpreted like this. It is Shinji's, as Anno's expy, own hopeful goodbye to being directly involved with Eva, because it is a personal suffering, probably also projected on everyone else involved. The curse of Eva is the curse of not being able to grow up and do other things but hop onto the figurative damn robot... And yet, paradoxically you can mature through Eva.

In fact, and I think that this Anno has been trying to say for the past 26 years but he finally could articulate it better, we probably misunderstood what Anno wanted to convey about the whole escapism theme and the otaku culture. It's not "grow up, stop playing with toys, stop watching animation and stop fetishising these characters" but more like "owe it up to yourself and others, mature, wake up and transcend what you are doing".

In this new ending we see the intermingling of real and anime footage, as if saying that it is powerful to believe in reality and fantasy, as long as you don't lose yourself to both extremes. It's a really big contrast to the live action sequence in EoE where the intention was to take the audience out of the experience to cause an uncomfortable reflection about escapism, fantasy and reality ("Does it feel good?")

I say this as alumni from a literature faculty: I think it's really good to keep talking about Evangelion, like we keep talking about many old books and plays; it is a really good work of art, of science fiction, and a very interesting cultural artifact. There is also a legacy of high human quality in Eva. It should be celebrated indeed.

to make it more apealing to the amercan

You lost me here. The chance for it to be a shitshow went from xx% to 100%

Exactly like Death Note.

Do not double post, unless it's necessary. Use the "Edit" buttom to add something in your post - JoelcrNeto

[pir2confusion]

Perhaps so, I've just been dwelling on that one sort of proposed meaning because I've heard so much about it as of late and It really seemed to dissatisfy me that I personally couldn't find meaning in my own conclusions.

I would not worry that much about it. Personally I enjoy first trying to just watch the thing by myself and thinking about it before looking online. Once online I look for others who will piece together the alien language or other kinds of stuff I just don't have the patience to figure out and gradually change and reflect on what actually happened as the many visual and audio clues are discovered and discussed.

The Eva series seems to be a mishmash of things like books tv shows and movies that Anno and all the other creators enjoyed and put in the series. So there are some universal things anyone can relate to as well as super specific things that you had to watch like something from 1970s Japan to understand. All this combines to make the series and people get out a bit of what they take into the series because they will recognize them in eva.

Going back to the original tv show the creative team will also go back and change what they released so even the same "work" will literally change over time. This makes for a very messy, strange, puzzle of a series. Besides something surface level nobody is walking away knowing exactly what happened first few weeks after this stuff is released. Some of it won't have even been finalized or created yet. All this means most people specifically those who say this is what it means, me included have no idea what really is going on and in a lot of ways it doesn't matter.

[PSIWasHere]

I think a western adaptation of Evangelion like this would not be as bad as let's say the western adaptation of death note.

I personally don't think Evangelion HAS to be brought to a western audience because it has already proven itself as something that can break borders and reach all considering its growing popularity in the west. I don't think anything is distinctly Japanese aside from the obvious stuff, such as Kanji, names, setting and artstyle. Evangelion to It's core is a something that all people can relate to and take something from, Japanese or not.

[Luigi shinji]

You guys are probably right. This idea is actualy came becouse while I watched 3.0+1.0 around the same time a watched Narcos Mexico and I don't why but I like to mix media in my that I watch around the same time.

[FelipeFritschF]

This can't be right! [Insert Youtuber here] told me that Eva was over forever! Anno hates you! Anno hates his fans! Go away! No more Eva! It's done! Nobody cares about this silly little niche franchise!

New Shinkalion crossover coming up. Only Shinji and Rei featured so far but I suppose we'll see other characters soon.

SPOILER: Show

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

https://www.animatetimes.com/news/detai ... ium=social

Ogata has also given an amusing interview on it, she calls Eva Shinkalion's "big brother". Perhaps this means there's going to be even more collaborations.

https://www.anime-recorder.com/tvanime/216508/

I should mention, also, that some people speculated that any upcoming Eva properties would no longer feature Shinji, because he's Anno, and Anno left, etc etc, etc. So much for that. Then again, I suppose you could say crossovers don't count...

[T. K. Simon]

I should mention, also, that some people speculated that any upcoming Eva properties would no longer feature Shinji, because he's Anno, and Anno left, etc etc, etc. So much for that. Then again, I suppose you could say crossovers don't count...

doubt very much that Shinji will not appear again in the next Eva series.
Eva is not like gundam (I personally would like a combination between manga and anime, giving more prominence to touji and Kaji)

Are these people journalists or do they have gainax contacts?

[pir2confusion]

The chance for an american made live action Evangelion movie/show not being a shit show is 0 to nothing but I thought a lot about it recently how could be good.

So recently I watched the netflix big hit show Narcos for the first time. That show is a US made product but with a mostly latin american cast. I think this is proofs that Americans can make good product's from a forgin base story.

So my imaginery live action Evangelion would be a netflix show with a Japanese cast for the Japanese characters, but to make it more apealing to the amercan cast I would add a side plot where an American agent is try to investigate Seele and this agent may be interact with Kaji and Misato.

I think a western adaptation of Evangelion like this would not be as bad as let's say the western adaptation of death note.

But I would like to know what you guys think about it.

The American adaptation was X-COM

I should mention, also, that some people speculated that any upcoming Eva properties would no longer feature Shinji, because he's Anno, and Anno left, etc etc, etc. So much for that. Then again, I suppose you could say crossovers don't count...

doubt very much that Shinji will not appear again in the next Eva series.
Eva is not like gundam (I personally would like a combination between manga and anime, giving more prominence to touji and Kaji)

Are these people journalists or do they have gainax contacts?

I could be off on what has aired or will air but Shinji is making a new appearance in shinkalion the train thing so not sure where anyone got the idea that Shinji is never going to appear again. Shinji isn't like literally Anno, and gainax no longer has anything to do with eva.

[FelipeFritschF]

And Anno said he no longer identified with Shinji, but rather Kaji, Misato and Ritsuko while making 2.0, and now with Gendo while making Shin. Too many people are obsessed with linking the characters to real people, and I am particularly dismayed it when they try to do so with Asuka being Miyamura, Rei being Anno's actual mom, Gendo being his actual dad, Misato being Kotone, or Noriko, or Kaworu being Miyazaki/Ikuhara/Higuchi/Maeda etc etc etc. At least Kensuke has been identified with one staff member... that being Sadamoto.

[Axx°N N.]

This can't be right! [Insert Youtuber here] told me that Eva was over forever! Anno hates you! Anno hates his fans! Go away! No more Eva! It's done!

Don't worry, the self-congratulating backpats have already been had, and everyone has moved on to the next thing to misinterpret and make "Ending of ___, EXPLAINED" videos for ad infinitum.