MariShin discussion general

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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MariShin discussion general

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Postby EzioAuditore1456 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:49 pm

Original title: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained
This is a post that I tried to make twice but for some reason reddit mods are censoring it, so read it as a reddit post and discuss:


First and foremost, I'd like to make clear that I just really, really love Mari. I do get that there are people that don't like her and they have their reasons, but for reasons I won't bother explaining in this post I really like her boobs. That said, I simply couldn't help but notice that a lot of people, both her fans and haters alike, seem to have reached the conclusion that Mari and Shinji end the last movie in a relationship. The thing is, I've been seeing a bunch of really stupid guys shoving that theory into other people's face as a way of flipping off the other shippers - especially people that wanted or expected Shinji to end up with Asuka - as if Mari had "won" something, going as far as making claims based on scarce evidence or even blatantly false statements - like claiming that they're the only ones left if you consider Asuka to be in a relationship with Kensuke, something already proven to be false(https://wiki.evageeks.org/Kensuke_Aida#cite_note-2). Besides, the alleged pairing made a lot of people to unfairly turn against Hideaki Anno for his decision to either not pair Shinji with their preferred characters or for allegedly doing so with Mari. Even though I personally love Mari, I need to make things clear that apparently a whole bunch of people simply missed or didn't bother checking - seriously, reading the wiki or source materials go a long way.



Mari keeps pushing Asuka about Shinji

For now, let's ignore the whole thing about whether Asuka and Shinji are over their crush or whatever, since it's not the point. Instead, let's focus on how Mari blatantly tries to push Asuka to either admit or to act on her feelings towards Shinji(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-12). There are several instances in which Mari tries to make Asuka deal with her unresolved feelings towards him, not only during the movies but, based on the canon 3.0 prequel material(https://imgur.com/gallery/sJTaCe2) - that apparently a lot of people are either not aware it exists or simply mistake it for the explicitly not canon Sadamoto manga - she's been doing that for at least some time. For all matters and purposes, she spends a great amount of time and effort to push those two back together, or at the very least to make amends. Now, not only that amount of insistence doesn't sound like a very logical thing to do if she's interested in Shinji herself, but it's also worth noticing that:



Mari never shows any kind of romantic interest on Shinji

Now, even though how the characters portray their feelings is a major point in the whole franchise, Mari never shows any kind of explicit or obvious romantic interest on Shinji. While not doing so wouldn't necessarily mean much to a character like Rei, Mari's personality is shown as being blatantly honest and carefree, making an eventual romantic interest being much more likely to be expressed in less ambiguous terms - like telling Shinji she likes him/loves him/wants-him-in-her-bed straight to his face - than being some sort of concealed, implicit interest that's not properly exposed to the viewers. Let's not forget, she's a character that keeps smelling people like a cat and sexually harassing her best friend.



The movies are supposed to be open ended, especially the last one

Think about it(https://i.redd.it/s4b8skmmi1y61.jpg), not only the movie is supposed to be open ended, but also the entire idea behind the new theatrical releases. Even though many people interpret Anno allegedly pairing Shinji with Mari as a big fuck you to everyone that wanted or expected him to end up with either Rei or Asuka, that notion is mostly due to the general idea some people have that he hates the fandom or deliberately makes choices to piss people off. Now, I won't get into the merit of that notion, but let's just say that it makes much more sense to simply not pair Shinji with anyone specifically. Why is that? Because it simply is the best possible choice. At the same time he doesn't alienate a huge part of the community by picking one over the other - even though he could since he's already claimed that his favorite is Asuka - he also allows the viewer to reach his own conclusions. Not pairing Shinji with anyone means that everyone can pair Shinji with anyone - fulfilling the open ended premise that the whole franchise has.



Their dialogue is widely misinterpreted

Regardless of how open ended the general premise is, some things can be inferred with a certain degree of certainty. One of those things is the whole idea behind their dialogue at the end of the last movie. While some people saw that as some kind of romantic exchange, we need to take into consideration all of the mentioned above and, especially, Mari's personality. Not only she smelling him is a direct callback to when they first met, but her behavior is on par with her previous behavior throughout the movies - she doesn't act any more romantic or invested into him as she normally did. His response isn't given in a necessarily romantic manner - instead, it's given in a way to highlight his maturity and growth as a person(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-14), explicitly demonstrated by Mari's surprise at the fact he answered her in a very confident manner and he mentioned her huge milkies(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/evang ... 0421150349), two things the usual Shinji normally wouldn't have done.



The assumption they were allegedly paired based on some people's interpretation of Mari as Anno's wife is flawed

While the whole idea of pairing Shinji with either Rei or Asuka would represent the bind to the past or the status quo and with Mari representing the new or the future that's still to come is a rather seductive theory, in the end it meets a major problem: an inspiration doesn't mean an expy. Some people have taken the idea that Mari has been created based on Hideaki Anno's wife and used to justify Mari and Shinji allegedly ending up together, since Shinji is supposed to be Anno's expy. The thing is, he claimed himself that everyone in the series is, in a certain way, a part of himself(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... note-:3-31). That way, Mari couldn't be introduced to fulfill a role his wife has in his life, at least not as the sole reason. Even worse, Hideaki Anno, his wife and the studio as a whole utterly despise the comparison(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-51) and the general notion that Anno's wife has some sort of control or influence in the creative process of the franchise. That way, considering Mari and Shinji to be in a relationship based on Mari allegedly being based on Anno's wife(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-52) ends up being a huge stretch.



Claiming that Sadamoto's manga is or became canon is just false

Some people have claimed that Sadamoto's manga was used as inspiration by Hideaki Anno and that it could explain a concealed interest on Shinji - regardless of the blatant lack of evidence in the movies. The thing is, even though it's already known that the manga isn't canon, being retroactively considered canon could only happen if explicitly said so by a source higher up in the chain of production - with Sadamoto being pretty much the #2 himself, that would be Hideaki Anno. The thing is, not only he didn't take part in the creative process of Sadamoto's manga - and if he actually had ended up liking Sadamoto's concept of Mari, he probably would - but Sadamoto was explicitly denied using Mari in his manga(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-44) in order to not interfere with her canon depiction - so much that he wasn't even aware how she'd end up being in the canon version - binding him to an extra, fanservice chapter in a manga that's already not canon. Anno's lack of approval or refusal towards Sadamoto's version of Mari(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-19) only reinforces the notion that he didn't care much because however Sadamoto depicted her, she would have her own canonical personality and background, and thus, claiming that her depiction in the manga became retroactively canon is simply false unless said so by Anno himself.



Now, to the best part: Mari and Shinji not being lovers is canon

Yes, I could have spared all of you of this wall of text and just have exposed the following, but considering a whole bunch of people won't even bother reading any of this to claim I'm wrong, I thought I might as well just expose many more arguments just because there are that many. Either way, it has been confirmed by, at least, three different sources that Mari and Shinji leave the station as friends. First and foremost, Maaya Sakamoto - Mari's VA herself - stated that she sees Mari and Shinji as being nothing but friends(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-15). She jokingly stated that she expects people to forgive her for holding Shinji's hand at the end of the last movie - and not for being paired with him - and also claims that Mari just really likes people. In fact, she states that the feeling she had as she acted is that Mari likes Asuka as a friend even more than anyone else AsuMari shippers, rejoice!. Besides, Megumi Ogata, Shinji's VA, also claimed that she felt Mari to be a friend(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... OgataNT-16) and noted that they barely even interacted during the movies. If the very people that played the characters themselves don't see nor feel Shinji and Mari as a couple, you could very strongly claim that they do end up as just being friends, specially considering that the voice actors act based on instructions given by the creative staff and, most importantly, Hideaki Anno himself - in fact, relaying the right impression is something considered extremely important both by the staff(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/The_ ... ite_note-6) and the voice actors themselves(https://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_An ... ite_note-1). If that itself wasn't enough, the sound director explicitly stated that the scene was recorded in a friendly manner with no romantic undertones whatsoever(https://evangelion.fandom.com/wiki/Mari ... te_note-17), partly to maintain the open ended general premise of the franchise, as I previously pointed out.



As exposed above, it's clear that Mari and Shinji are not actually a couple and their dialogue during the last scene is meant to highlight Shinji's change in behavior and serve a somewhat comedic purpose, since Mari's massive badonkers are kind of a running gag. Even though a relationship between them could be argued, that could only be so after the end of the movie, since the ending was meant to be open exactly so people can come up with their own versions of what's gonna happen next. If you want to believe they'll eventually end up together, you can. If you want to believe Shinji and Asuka will act on their mutual late confession and officialize their relationship, you can. If you want to believe Shinji will end up with fucking Ritsuko of all people, you can as well but please don't. The whole point of an open ended finale is to allow the viewers to decide what happens next, and thus, the only mistake in believing Mari and Shinji are a couple is in claiming that's canon, when the very opposite is true - although, if you choose to believe so, they can become a couple, just after the end.

The only reason I chose to write this is because I've been seeing a lot of people unfairly bashing either Hideaki Anno for the erroneous notion that he decided to pair Mari with Shinji or other shippers that didn't like the alleged couple. In the future I should write a post to expose my own interpretation of the ending of the last movie, based on some logical conclusions we're capable of making considering both in universe evidence and the general meta of the franchise, even though no one really cares - I just happen to have some spare time lately.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby TsuyoiOuji » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:18 am

Agree with everything. It is really annoying how ppl suddenly started talking that Sadamoto's manga became cannon out of blue.

And to me the station scene (and maybe the beach scene as well) felt really detached to the whole story. It stopped being "a great story with things you can take to your life" and tried really hard to be "THIS life lesson is the whole reason the anime was made, take it". If ppl want to justify this by saying he wanted something closer to his wife's work, than he should've made a better structure to support it, and not just dump things in the last 30s. It is called consistency. :um:

Side note, Kaji Jr had more chemistry with Shinji in 10s than Mari throughout 3 movies, lol.

I need to point out the only flaw in your post. Neglecting Kaworu as possible/expected pairing.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:00 am

I mean, the obvious flirting between the two through dialogue and gestures and the fact that they hold hands at the end (And One last kiss soundtrack) is more than proof that they entered a relationship sometime after the events of the movie.
No supposed friends or child and parental figure act the way Shinji and Mari did at the end of the movie, they have never shown this type of interaction between Mari and another person.
Also, Hikari and Toji's relationship was also treated similarly to Mari and Shinji's in this movie, they interacted only once in 1.0 but they happened to get together due to circumstances, but nobody questions that because their relationship was already established in the original series.
If Mari was in NGE and had feelings for Shinji, people wouldn't question that they ended up together and liked each other in the final rebuild movie.
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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby jedi_spectre1 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:41 am

It depends a lot on your interpretation of the time and place of the final scene. If it is a timeskip, then yes, they probably are together in my opinion. But if they are still in the Anti-Universe or just got isekai'd into "Neon Genesis," then it is more ambiguous. I personally don't think its a timeskip, since the DSS Choker and the dialogue seem more to indicate little time has passed. Why would Shinji wear the DSS Choker if he was living for the past fourteen years in a world without Evangelions?

I personally don't view Shinji and Mari as romantic, but I understand the interpretation that they are. I think it is unclear enough that any number of views on it can be held. Also, I am biased, since I find a romantic relationship between Mari and Shinji to be pretty weird and creepy, since she seemed to be present for his literal birth.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby Archer » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:30 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:I mean, the obvious flirting between the two through dialogue and gestures and the fact that they hold hands at the end (And One last kiss soundtrack) is more than proof that they entered a relationship sometime after the events of the movie.
No supposed friends or child and parental figure act the way Shinji and Mari did at the end of the movie, they have never shown this type of interaction between Mari and another person.
Also, Hikari and Toji's relationship was also treated similarly to Mari and Shinji's in this movie, they interacted only once in 1.0 but they happened to get together due to circumstances, but nobody questions that because their relationship was already established in the original series.
If Mari was in NGE and had feelings for Shinji, people wouldn't question that they ended up together and liked each other in the final rebuild movie.

Different situation, since they had a timeskip and are almost always paired together in auxiliary Eva media.

I honestly kind of agree that the ending isn’t supposed to be saying “they are in a relationship”, but rather merely heavily implying that it’s the START of something. There’s a bit of a nuanced difference here.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:36 pm

I do get the impression this Mari is not manga Mari to me they are two different Mari's. As Manga Mari to me comes over as lesbian whereas rebuild Mari might be bisexual or bi-curious.

The issue I have is the film, did not show Shinji's full journey in instrumentality from start to end, so I can see why a fan theory has appeared saying train station Mari might not even be real, and it could be his fantasy as he's stuck in a loop in instrumentality and has not come out its just unlike EOE its a happy loop and not a depressing one. I think the only way to fix this issue is a rebuild manga that fills in the gaps.
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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby EzioAuditore1456 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:42 pm

View Original PostTsuyoiOuji wrote:I need to point out the only flaw in your post. Neglecting Kaworu as possible/expected pairing.


Ironically, my original post was supposed to have plenty of jokes about how Kaworu is usually neglected as a canon pairing but I decided not to in order to be more serious and literal, considering all the other jokes already included.

Giji Shinka wrote:I mean, the obvious flirting between the two through dialogue and gestures and the fact that they hold hands at the end (And One last kiss soundtrack) is more than proof that they entered a relationship sometime after the events of the movie.
No supposed friends or child and parental figure act the way Shinji and Mari did at the end of the movie, they have never shown this type of interaction between Mari and another person.
Also, Hikari and Toji's relationship was also treated similarly to Mari and Shinji's in this movie, they interacted only once in 1.0 but they happened to get together due to circumstances, but nobody questions that because their relationship was already established in the original series.
If Mari was in NGE and had feelings for Shinji, people wouldn't question that they ended up together and liked each other in the final rebuild movie.


1) Mari flirting is far from being something new to her, the whole point of the dialogue is to portray Shinji as a more mature person, since he wouldn't normally behave that way 2) Holding hands, as opposed to some dumb depiction in fandoms as something dirty and sexual, is simply that, holding someone's hand, something absurdly far from being strictly romantic 3) One last kiss is the soundtrack of the movie, not of the scene, unless you wanna argue every scene has an exclusive, dedicated soundtrack lol 4) "more than proof" is more than proof that you truly didn't read anything that was exposed as evidence, specially the bit about the staff admitting there's nothing romantic between them, which literally destroys any and every argument anyone that thinks otherwise might have 5) No one ever described their interaction as parental, much to the opposite, it was repeatedly described as friendly, and friends behaving like that in a jokingly manner is way more common than you might think 6) Mari literally flirts and pretty much gropes Asuka all the time, besides her first interaction with Shinji is pretty on par with the last scene, so I'm not even sure if you actually paid any attention to the movies whatsoever

jedi_spectre1 wrote:I personally don't view Shinji and Mari as romantic, but I understand the interpretation that they are. I think it is unclear enough that any number of views on it can be held. Also, I am biased, since I find a romantic relationship between Mari and Shinji to be pretty weird and creepy, since she seemed to be present for his literal birth.


Archer wrote:I honestly kind of agree that the ending isn’t supposed to be saying “they are in a relationship”, but rather merely heavily implying that it’s the START of something. There’s a bit of a nuanced difference here.


The last movie pretty much embodies the general premise of the franchise that is open ended results, and as such, people are somewhat free to believe something might end up happening between them. The thing is, claiming that such relationship is canon is blatantly false, as confirmed by the very staff involved in portraying the scene. If Shinji and Mari end up together, that could only happen after the ending, since deciding Shinji not to be paired with anyone was the best choice to keep all the ships alive and fulfill the general premise. People that claim they end up together using their own biased interpretation of the last scene simply ignore the whole context of the scene, the general premise of the franchise and the very fact that the staff already killed that theory.

silvermoonlight wrote:I do get the impression this Mari is not manga Mari to me they are two different Mari's. As Manga Mari to me comes over to me as lesbian whereas rebuild Mari might be bisexual or bi-curious.


Mari was introduced to fulfill a noble role of generating a source of female gayness to contrast with Kaworu's male gayness, in order to create a glorious equilibrium for all the shippers and fanfic writers alike.

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:49 pm

View Original PostEzioAuditore1456 wrote:Mari keeps pushing Asuka about Shinji


There are several instances in which Mari tries to make Asuka deal with her unresolved feelings towards him, not only during the movies but, based on the canon 3.0 prequel material(https://imgur.com/gallery/sJTaCe2) - that apparently a lot of people are either not aware it exists or simply mistake it for the explicitly not canon Sadamoto manga - she's been doing that for at least some time.

But at that time, Asuka has chosen to get over him. And at the end, Shinji has gotten over her. So it’s now over between them.
Even though many people interpret Anno allegedly pairing Shinji with Mari as a big fuck you to everyone that wanted or expected him to end up with either Rei or Asuka, that notion is mostly due to the general idea some people have that he hates the fandom or deliberately makes choices to piss people off.

I think that’s what basically happened. Some fans just need to get over that. Anno chose to sink those ships to put an end to the waifu wars.
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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby EzioAuditore1456 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:25 pm

C.T.1290 wrote:But at that time, Asuka has chosen to get over him. And at the end, Shinji has gotten over her. So it’s now over between them.


That is quite a stretch, first because she was clearly not over him, as demonstrated by both the movies and especially the canon prequel manga - in which she chants a love song about missing your lover - and second because in the end they admit their feelings to each other, so instead of simply getting over it and not having anything that could also mean that they could try going for a fresh start after the end - both them being over their feelings for each other and them going for a fresh start in a healthy relationship make sense, just another reason why the end was left open ended like that, people can reach any of those 2 conclusions.

C.T.1290 wrote:I think that’s what basically happened. Some fans just need to get over that. Anno chose to sink those ships to put an end to the waifu wars.


I think some people completely fail to understand that 1) Hideaki Anno ain't an arrogant asshole that just does things to fuck people over and 2) an open ended finale like we had in the movie is simply better because it keeps all the ships alive - he always said that waifu wars are pointless but it generates interest and revenue, so if he wanted to do something explicit about it he could just settle things confirming the most popular ship, which also happens to be his favorite. Him pairing Mari with Shinji doesn't even make sense to sink waifu wars because he'd be going against the franchise's interest, his own personal preferences and the very general premise of the series - people simply can't get over the fact that simply not pairing Shinji with anyone was the best course of action considering those 3 factors.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:50 am

I had to cut out a part of this thread and throw it into the Graveyard. Just remember, folks: “actively contribute to threads”.
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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby baldur » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:08 pm

It's certainly a lot more open to interpretation than many people seem to realize. What her VA said about her "just really liking people" makes sense to me, I've known people like that in real life. I won't deny that my initial interpretation was them two being in a relationship, but I've pretty much abandoned that line of thought on repeated viewings. Mari/Asuka is a better pairing anyway.

Giji Shinka wrote:they have never shown this type of interaction between Mari and another person.

What? Mari is flirty with everyone lol.

Giji Shinka wrote: Also, Hikari and Toji's relationship was also treated similarly to Mari and Shinji's in this movie, they interacted only once in 1.0 but they happened to get together due to circumstances, but nobody questions that because their relationship was already established in the original series.

Yes, because the Rebuilds broadly assume the viewer is familiar with NGE already. Especially 3.0+1.0.

Giji Shinka wrote:If Mari was in NGE and had feelings for Shinji, people wouldn't question that they ended up together and liked each other in the final rebuild movie.

"If this situation was actually a totally different situation, the reactions would be different!"
Yeah, well...

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby Jayfive » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:17 pm

What? Mari is flirty with everyone lol.


This. People seems to be confusing "affectionate" or "tactile" with "flirty".

She glomps Asuka when she arrives back at the Wunder but it's a "Yay! My close friend has returned safely!" thing not a "C'mere and gimme some of that good stuff Red" thing.

I swear some people must have spent too long on the ocean, because they are seeing shipping everywhere.

Saying that Asuka playing her Wonderswan while basically wearing Mari as a scarf is hilarious.
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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby The18°angel » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:29 pm

View Original Postbaldur wrote:What? Mari is flirty with everyone lol.


But at the same time only one person has flirted back at Mari that we see on screen and that was Shinji so if we had more scenes with Mari interacting with other person face to face and being flirty with her we could see how she handles this but we don't have that to compare.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby EzioAuditore1456 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:45 pm

View Original Postbaldur wrote:It's certainly a lot more open to interpretation than many people seem to realize. What her VA said about her "just really liking people" makes sense to me, I've known people like that in real life. I won't deny that my initial interpretation was them two being in a relationship, but I've pretty much abandoned that line of thought on repeated viewings.


Technically speaking, the staff's confirmation is somewhat unnecessary to establish the scene as nothing but Mari being Mari. I seriously can't see the insistence some people have with the interpretation that they end up together, but I suspect it has something to do with the notion some people have that Hideaki Anno is just some kind of bitter asshole that deliberately puts some things in the canon just to piss people off - like the whole myth about the ending of the television series. The whole scene is very much on par with her previous behavior and it clearly focuses on Shinji's maturity, as exposed by Mari herself - so much that I never interpreted it as them being together, just saw a bunch of people taking it that way later.

baldur wrote:Mari/Asuka is a better pairing anyway.


Truly a man of culture indeed.

Jayfive wrote:This. People seems to be confusing "affectionate" or "tactile" with "flirty".


And even if they actually were being flirty that doesn't really mean anything, as it happens people that have real friends know that friends can flirt without actually mean anything sexual or romantic at all.

Jayfive wrote:She glomps Asuka when she arrives back at the Wunder but it's a "Yay! My close friend has returned safely!" thing not a "C'mere and gimme some of that good stuff Red" thing.


I just love how Asuka's face pretty much says "fuck off dyke" in the most friendly manner possible lol

Jayfive wrote:Saying that Asuka playing her Wonderswan while basically wearing Mari as a scarf is hilarious.


I would pay to wear Mari as a scarf

The18°angel wrote:But at the same time only one person has flirted back at Mari that we see on screen and that was Shinji so if we had more scenes with Mari interacting with other person face to face and being flirty with her we could see how she handles this but we don't have that to compare.


People that flirt for fun don't do it because they expect reciprocity, they do it because they like doing it - besides, Asuka wasn't in a particular refreshing mood to flirt back although I'd love to see them get it going.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby aboose » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:12 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:I mean, the obvious flirting between the two through dialogue and gestures and the fact that they hold hands at the end (And One last kiss soundtrack) is more than proof that they entered a relationship sometime after the events of the movie.

I'm not sure if I'm mis-understanding what you wrote, but there is no credible evidence that any time passes between the scene of them on the beach and the scene of them at the station. See this thread for why: thread/20997/The-Last-Train-Station-Scene/

At the beach scene, Shinji refer's to Mari as "Mari-san" which is a relatievly formalized way to call someone. It's not something you call for someone who you are extremely close with and dating almost all of the time. For comparison, he does not append "san" to Rei or asukas names, but he does for Misato most of the time.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby Konja7 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:54 am

View Original Postaboose wrote:At the beach scene, Shinji refer's to Mari as "Mari-san" which is a relatievly formalized way to call someone. It's not something you call for someone who you are extremely close with and dating almost all of the time. For comparison, he does not append "san" to Rei or asukas names, but he does for Misato most of the time.


In fact, Shinji calls Rei as Ayanami. Calling someone by her last nane is relatively formal too.

That said, we don't know how Shinji calls Mari in the train scene. We just see that Shinji acts pretty close to Mari.


PS: Also, Kaji calls Misato as Katsuragi-san in their goodbye. So, the appends don't necessarily mean anything.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby pir2confusion » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:10 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:In fact, Shinji calls Rei as Ayanami. Calling someone by her last nane is relatively formal too.

That said, we don't know how Shinji calls Mari in the train scene. We just see that Shinji acts pretty close to Mari.


PS: Also, Kaji calls Misato as Katsuragi-san in their goodbye. So, the appends don't necessarily mean anything.


No the names, language and even delivery of lines all mean something even if it isn't readily apparent. This is a Japanese show and so we are always going to have to deal with trying to translate meaning unless dealing with it in the native language. I can guess for Kaji and Misato it is important that he uses this language as Kaji knows he is sacrificing himself and is a serious final goodbye.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby EzioAuditore1456 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:42 pm

View Original Postaboose wrote:I'm not sure if I'm mis-understanding what you wrote, but there is no credible evidence that any time passes between the scene of them on the beach and the scene of them at the station. See this thread for why: thread/20997/The-Last-Train-Station-Scene/

At the beach scene, Shinji refer's to Mari as "Mari-san" which is a relatievly formalized way to call someone. It's not something you call for someone who you are extremely close with and dating almost all of the time. For comparison, he does not append "san" to Rei or asukas names, but he does for Misato most of the time.


Actually, I really can't see why so many people seem to think years have passed between the beach and train scenes, as if he would spend 14 years wearing that choker lol

Konja7 wrote:In fact, Shinji calls Rei as Ayanami. Calling someone by her last nane is relatively formal too.

That said, we don't know how Shinji calls Mari in the train scene. We just see that Shinji acts pretty close to Mari.


PS: Also, Kaji calls Misato as Katsuragi-san in their goodbye. So, the appends don't necessarily mean anything.


I would say that the reason he still uses honorifics with her is because not only they're workmates, but technically speaking they're not together anymore, even though their actions usually amount to the very opposite

pir2confusion wrote:No the names, language and even delivery of lines all mean something even if it isn't readily apparent. This is a Japanese show and so we are always going to have to deal with trying to translate meaning unless dealing with it in the native language. I can guess for Kaji and Misato it is important that he uses this language as Kaji knows he is sacrificing himself and is a serious final goodbye.


I wonder which honorifics he used with his watermelons

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby Konja7 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:03 pm

View Original PostEzioAuditore1456 wrote:I would say that the reason he still uses honorifics with her is because not only they're workmates, but technically speaking they're not together anymore, even though their actions usually amount to the very opposite

When Kaji died, Misato was pregnant (that's the reason why she didn't accompany him in the suicide mission). So, they were pretty close at that point.

Kaji still calls her as Katsuragi-san.

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Re: Why Shinji and Mari DID NOT end up as a couple: Explained

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Postby pir2confusion » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:00 am

View Original PostEzioAuditore1456 wrote:
I wonder which honorifics he used with his watermelons


Not sure what the honorifics for watermelons would be but I imagine someone could make a big thread on all the honorifics and how people referrer to each other or their fathers in Thrice Upon a Time. In the tv series Kaji I think only used less formal names with Ritsuko and she is the only one to use his first name. Maybe it was different in the rebuild and someone who has watched 2.0 recently could say for sure but Kaji would only refer to Misato as Katsuragi. Katsuragai-san would be very different and could be a big point as their last words to each other. Though listening I thought Kaji just says Katsuragi like always and then take care of yourself.


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