Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby Konja7 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:14 pm

So, I've been wondering if Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

In 3.33, Shinji uses an special suit when he goes out to see the state of the planet, while Kaworu is just in school uniform.

In 3.0+1.0, Shinji could walk in the Red Earth, but I think this could be due to his plug suit.

Unlike Asuka or Rei Q, Shinji seems to be in a pretty dangerous situation when Kensuke finds him. Shinji's plug suit seems to stop protecting him.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:40 pm

You know what I found out about the red Earth in 3.0 + 1.0? Shinji and Unit 01 weren't the cause. Thanks to Gendo's flashback monologue, I now can lay this damned brain itch to bed when he confirms that the Mark 06/12th Angel/Lilith combo was the culprit. It had been said before what the impacts were for in this forum but upon watching the damned movie it's now confirmed.

Now I can write a fan fiction where Shinji is aware he's not responsible for the red Earth and was stabbed in the back by his former peers. But instead of acting like an adult and allow reconciliation he carry's the burden and lie of the being the culprit as to prey on Wille's ignorance as an form of offence so he doesn't have to lift a finger to help them nor humanity when the going gets tough.
I watch and speculate.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby DantesInferno » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:12 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:So, I've been wondering if Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

In 3.33, Shinji uses an special suit when he goes out to see the state of the planet, while Kaworu is just in school uniform.



I always found this part weird. The part where Kaworu tells Shinji to put the suit on happens off screen, and thus conveniently avoids the obvious: Shinji asking Kaworu why he isn't wearing one too. Regardless, perhaps Kaworu isn't sure whether Shinji knows he has turned into a Lilim+, and doesn't want to spoil it. He still should be wearing a suit himself too, to "play along".

Watching Q, you might think the suit has nothing to do with the L-barrier and is there just to protect Shinji from the elements at high altitude. But Ritsuko and her team too need a suit atop the pillar in Paris, despite not being in direct contact with the ground (and the DSRV leg can be seen to start to turn into core halfway through the operation);

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:In 3.0+1.0, Shinji could walk in the Red Earth, but I think this could be due to his plug suit.


I don't think this is the case; protection against the L-barrier seems to need covering yourself fully, the head included.

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:Unlike Asuka or Rei Q, Shinji seems to be in a pretty dangerous situation when Kensuke finds him. Shinji's plug suit seems to stop protecting him.



This could be the case. But then later we see Shinji wearing full protective suit to meet Ryouji Kaji Jr. (to avoid giving himself away and alienating the unaware lilim, evidently), but taking it off in the car on the way back home (while Kensuke is still fully protected).

Perhaps Shinji is in an intermediate state where he can survive with either just a plug suit or inside a car, but not fully exposed like Asuka and Rei.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby Konja7 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:15 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:You know what I found out about the red Earth in 3.0 + 1.0? Shinji and Unit 01 weren't the cause.


In the prologue of 3.0+1.0, we can still heard Kaworu explanation that Awakened Eva-01 in 2.0 acted as the trigger to bring about the Third Impact. This affirmation is never denied in the story, then it seems pretty clear the story still treats Near Third Impact caused by Shinji as the culprit for the Third Impact (even if they never explain how).


That said, this doesn't have any relation with this topic.
Last edited by Konja7 on Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby Konja7 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:29 pm

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:I always found this part weird. The part where Kaworu tells Shinji to put the suit on happens off screen, and thus conveniently avoids the obvious: Shinji asking Kaworu why he isn't wearing one too. Regardless, perhaps Kaworu isn't sure whether Shinji knows he has turned into a Lilim+, and doesn't want to spoil it. He still should be wearing a suit himself too, to "play along".

Maybe Kaworu isn't sure if Shinji could survive the Red Earth or not. After all, Shinji still needs to eat to survive. So, it could be a big risk at that point.

Kaworu doesn't seem interested in hiding his own non-humanity to Shinji.



View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Perhaps Shinji is in an intermediate state where he can survive with either just a plug suit or inside a car, but not fully exposed like Asuka and Rei.

That's a pretty good possibility.

That said, maybe Kensuke didn't take off his face protection, because he was driving. We can't be sure if the part where Kensuke was driving is unsafe for humans.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:29 pm

While driving back from seeing Kaji Kensuke still has his mask on in the car but Shinji doesn't.

I have wondered if maybe they just didn't want to arouse suspicion/not have to explain Shinji's role.
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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby DantesInferno » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:00 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:Kaworu doesn't seem interested in hiding his own non-humanity to Shinji.


That is a possibility, but you would think that Shinji would start asking questions about Kaworu then (especially given that this is when he goes to Kaworu for answers about 3I and the timeskip: Shinji is in "wanna know" mode).

Kaworu introduces himself as "just another kid who has had his fate preordained, like you". Definitely not showing all the cards there!

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:24 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:That is a possibility, but you would think that Shinji would start asking questions about Kaworu then (especially given that this is when he goes to Kaworu for answers about 3I and the timeskip: Shinji is in "wanna know" mode).

Kaworu introduces himself as "just another kid who has had his fate preordained, like you". Definitely not showing all the cards there!


If Kaworu wanted to hide his cards and shows himself as just another kid, he would have used a protective suit too.

The fact is that Kaworu is outside without protection, while he makes Shinji to put a suit. That implies that Kaworu doesn't mind if Shinji asks questions about Kaworu's non-humanity.

It's Shinji who doesn't ask questions, because his "wanna know" mode focus on all the changes on his life.
Last edited by Konja7 on Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby Zoop » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:29 am

Don't forget tho, this is the Shinji who didn't even ask what the hell that thing was during first few minutes of the movies (and series), Misato even bitched about it, and he was like "i didn't think you would tell me anyway" kind of vibe.
Tho he did start this movie with a whole lot of questions (who went unanswered), so maybe he's in a "wanna know" mode, as Dante said ...

But still, Shinji always kinda was the character to take things like "if it's important, they'll tell me". And then get pissed when he doesn't know things.

In any case what I'm saying, due to his past behaviors I'd say that "but he would ask" isn't such a strong point to make.
Especially how he completely did his own thing a few scenes later even though Kaworu had doubts about the situation.

Maybe he in a "wanna know" mode but definitely not in a "patiently listen" one.

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Postby nerv bae » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:11 am

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Watching Q, you might think the suit has nothing to do with the L-barrier and is there just to protect Shinji from the elements at high altitude. But Ritsuko and her team too need a suit atop the pillar in Paris, despite not being in direct contact with the ground (and the DSRV leg can be seen to start to turn into core halfway through the operation);

I like "high altitude" as an explanation for why Shinji needed to wear the suit outside neo-NERV HQ. The rebuilds show us that lilin+ don't need to eat or sleep, but I don't think they ever give us a clue that lilin+ don't need to breathe (after all, Asuka and Mari both launch with space helmets in Operation US). Regarding the Paris team's suits, we could infer that the L-barrier effects fall off with distance, such that the top of the pillar is still in the danger zone (such that suits are needed for red earth protection but not to breathe) but neo-NERV HQ is not (such that suits are needed for the opposite reason).

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:57 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:I like "high altitude" as an explanation for why Shinji needed to wear the suit outside neo-NERV HQ. The rebuilds show us that lilin+ don't need to eat or sleep, but I don't think they ever give us a clue that lilin+ don't need to breathe (after all, Asuka and Mari both launch with space helmets in Operation US). Regarding the Paris team's suits, we could infer that the L-barrier effects fall off with distance, such that the top of the pillar is still in the danger zone (such that suits are needed for red earth protection but not to breathe) but neo-NERV HQ is not (such that suits are needed for the opposite reason).


This a good explanation. After all, Kaworu could survive in the moon without any apparent protection, then "high altitude" wouldn't be a problem for him. However, "high altitude" could still be dangerous for Shinji.


That said, in 3.0+1.0, it's pretty implied that Shinji isn't totally immune to Red Earth (yet), since he seemed to be in great danger when he was found by Kensuke.

So, Shinji using a protecting suit could just be a security measure.

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Postby nerv bae » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:13 am

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:That said, in 3.0+1.0, it's pretty implied that Shinji isn't totally immune to Red Earth (yet), since he seemed to be in great danger when he was found by Kensuke.

I don't understand the conclusion that Shinji is in great danger. Just before Kenken rolls up in his Suzuki Shinji's wrist display flashes WARNING, BATTERY EXTREMELY LOW, SUIT OPERATIONS IMPAIRED. But Asuka and Rei don't seem concerned about this at all; nothing about the trio's walk through the red earth seems fraught or urgent. Shiji is just catatonic, not in danger, right?

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:22 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:I don't understand the conclusion that Shinji is in great danger. Just before Kenken rolls up in his Suzuki Shinji's wrist display flashes WARNING, BATTERY EXTREMELY LOW, SUIT OPERATIONS IMPAIRED. But Asuka and Rei don't seem concerned about this at all; nothing about the trio's walk through the red earth seems fraught or urgent. Shiji is just catatonic, not in danger, right?


Shinji was catatonic, but he was still walking all the time at the beginning. However, before they were found by Kensuke, Shinji has just stopped and sat on the ground without moving. It seems the situation become dangerous for Shinji at that point.

Also, Touji mentions that Kensuke saved Shinji.

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Postby DantesInferno » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:51 pm

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:If Kaworu wanted to hide his cards and shows himself as just another kid, he would have used a protective suit too.


Which is why I found it curious in the first place...

View Original PostKonja7 wrote:The fact is that Kaworu is outside without protection, while he makes Shinji to put a suit. That implies that Kaworu doesn't mind if Shinji asks questions about Kaworu's non-humanity.
It's Shinji who doesn't ask questions, because his "wanna know" mode focus on all the changes on his life.


View Original PostZoop wrote:Don't forget tho, this is the Shinji who didn't even ask what the hell that thing was during first few minutes of the movies (and series), Misato even bitched about it, and he was like "i didn't think you would tell me anyway" kind of vibe.
Tho he did start this movie with a whole lot of questions (who went unanswered), so maybe he's in a "wanna know" mode, as Dante said ...

But still, Shinji always kinda was the character to take things like "if it's important, they'll tell me". And then get pissed when he doesn't know things.

In any case what I'm saying, due to his past behaviors I'd say that "but he would ask" isn't such a strong point to make.
Especially how he completely did his own thing a few scenes later even though Kaworu had doubts about the situation.

Maybe he in a "wanna know" mode but definitely not in a "patiently listen" one.


Yeah, makes sense. I guess it's just a convenient combination of "don't ask, don't tell" and Shinji's shy character.

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Postby Konja7 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:38 pm

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Yeah, makes sense. I guess it's just a convenient combination of "don't ask, don't tell" and Shinji's shy character.


Also, if we analyze the situation, Kaworu walking without a protective suit may be weird, but it isn't a big deal compared to other things Shinji has seen at that point.

After all, Shinji has already seen a girl who has not aged in 14 years.

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Postby Anchorhead » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:19 am

My read on this is that Shinji is largely immune to the effects of the corified Earth, just like the other pilots. Clearly the plugsuits do provide some layer of resistance against corification -- you can extrapolate that that's (part of) why they're used in the entry plugs in general -- but it's incomplete. Even in full plugsuits with helmets, the WILLE away team struggle to survive mere minutes of exposure to the high L barrier density in Paris. Shinji, Asuka, and Rei Q, meanwhile, went on a whole little odyssey through terrain that Asuka noted as being too dangerous for WILLE to even attempt to pick them up.

It's the Curse of Eva -- one of the "perks" of which is resistance to the L barrier. Shinji apparently has the curse less bad than Asuka, as he still needs to eat and sleep, but he's got it for sure. As for why he wears a hazmat suit in 3.0 when he and Kaworu venture outside NERV, it always struck me as a bit of visual storytelling more than anything; it puts distance between the two of them, Kaworu striding confidently down the rickety steps while Shinji sidles along in sheer terror. (I do like the take that the suit could be altitude-related -- these things always operate on a literal and metaphorical level in Eva.)

Shinji finds it difficult to accept that there's anything exceptional about him. Having otherworldly powers doesn't exactly bring him happiness. (That seems to have been Kaworu's mistake!) 3.0+1.0 is largely the resolution to that arc -- in order for Shinji to reject the power he has, he first has to accept that he has it. Shinji leaving his helmet off for the car ride home after meeting Kaji Jr. happens around the time Shinji really starts to dig into that acceptance, and the framing of the scene this way highlights the distance between him and Kensuke -- just like the outdoor scene between Shinji and Kaworu, but this time in reverse.

Regarding the bit where Shinji is catatonic as they wait for Kensuke to pick them up: I figure that has more to do with the fact that his boyfriend exploded than him being in mortal danger! That's pretty much the kid's whole deal for the first, like, forty minutes of the movie.

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Postby Konja7 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:57 am

View Original PostAnchorhead wrote:Shinji finds it difficult to accept that there's anything exceptional about him. Having otherworldly powers doesn't exactly bring him happiness. (That seems to have been Kaworu's mistake!) 3.0+1.0 is largely the resolution to that arc -- in order for Shinji to reject the power he has, he first has to accept that he has it. Shinji leaving his helmet off for the car ride home after meeting Kaji Jr. happens around the time Shinji really starts to dig into that acceptance, and the framing of the scene this way highlights the distance between him and Kensuke -- just like the outdoor scene between Shinji and Kaworu, but this time in reverse.


I don't think Shinji's conflict is related to have otherworldly powers (that seems to be mainly Asuka's conflict). In fact, Shinji uses otherworldly powers to restore the Earth in 3.0+1.0.

Shinji's conflict was always more related to escaping pain and blame, which is his main motivation to try to restore the Earth in in 3.0. Kaworu's mistake was to enable that behavior.

In 3.0+1.0, Shinji accepts the pain and blame, his motivation to restore the Earth is to help others. Shinji wishes a world without Eva (otherworldly powers) because that's the happiness for his friends.
Last edited by Konja7 on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Shinji could survive in the Red Earth or not.

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Postby Zoop » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:03 am

Thank you Anchorhead, nicely summed up, now I have little headcanon how that conversation would have went about the hazmat suit.

Kaworu: Lets Go
Shinji: No way, see all the warning signs? Its dangerous, imma put this suit on
Kaworu: Thats only going to slow you down, and like me, you dont even need it
Shinji: I'm going to wear it just in case!
*proceed to scene of Shinji struggling with the suit and Kaworu thinking by himself "told you so"*

All because Shinji isn't willing to accept he ain't exactly human anymore (yet, at least).

Reminds me of this Stargate Atlantis episode where they meet Ronon for first time, with dangerous levels of UV on the planet, and the marines just go in while Rodney insists on wearing hazmat, only to complain about being tired and too hot a few minutes later.

In any case, tying in the hazmat suit as a sign for whether Shinji is accepting the situation or not, I really like it.


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