Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

[nerv bae]

That’s so funny, I was thinking about the exact same thing today. It is possible that the shots are shown out of order for dramatic effect, but most likely they occur chronologically.

To add to the mystery, I realized a few days ago that in Shin during Gendo's monologue on the Wunder's hull, the Ha flashback scenes are re-used but in reverse order. So in Shin we see:

SPOILER: Show

Thus, as Shin's Gendo is recounting the impacts we're shown the four crosses appearing after we're shown the radiant giants and the spears. This reversal of Ha must have been done purposefully, but I have no idea whether it's a deliberate retcon or something more subtle.

That too. Some speculate it is linked to the 8th angel that appears soon after in 2.0. It feels a bit too big though. Perhaps it’s supposed to be the Doors of Guf, but in 3D (a sphere) instead of 2D (a disk) for some reason… This is just a wild thought.

Idle observation: in another reversal, rather than Ha's black sphere, Shin's Impact features a luminescent sphere that rises to be eclipsed by the too-near moon:

SPOILER: Show

We see the huge extent of the golden barrier here; my own wild and off-topic thought is that the golden barrier is the physical limit of Impact events. It's large enough to encompass the earth and moon (to put the moon back in a wider orbit) but not large enough to reach Wunder's seed vaults cruising out to Lagrange 5 (such that these survive de-Evafication of the world).

[DantesInferno]

Idle observation: in another reversal, rather than Ha's black sphere, Shin's Impact features a luminescent sphere that rises to be eclipsed by the too-near moon:

SPOILER: Show

We see the huge extent of the golden barrier here; my own wild and off-topic thought is that the golden barrier is the physical limit of Impact events. It's large enough to encompass the earth and moon (to put the moon back in a wider orbit) but not large enough to reach Wunder's seed vaults cruising out to Lagrange 5 (such that these survive de-Evafication of the world).

Devil’s advocate: Did you rule out that just being the sun?

[nerv bae]

Good heavens, I did not think of that. Unless Impacts are superluminal it would take on the order of ten minutes to establish the golden barrier on the opposite side of the sun, which is possible given Shin's impact timeline. So, yeah! The luminescent sphere could be the sun in that sense. On the other hand, the sphere is shown to "rise", at about the same speed as GNR's wings, into the eclipse position and then stop there. Because the earth, the moon, and Unit 08 are stationary in the scene, I don't think we can attribute the sphere's rise and stop to camera motion; thus it must be attributable to sphere motion, right? I don't think it's possible for the sun to move that fast with respect to the earth-moon system, and then stop on a dime, so I'll conclude that the sphere is more likely to be local, new, and rising from the south pole than it is to be the sun.

[Jinroh]

I still don't understand where that golden barrier and the characters/ships are located exactly during the additional impact.

The hole leading to the minus space (from which Lilith emerges) is located in an "underworld" beyond the gates of Hell. Both gates seem to be constantly open. The gate of hell has multiple layers of protection though.

The underworld is enormous and goes insanely deep; the black moon is dozens of km tall and looks tinny inside of it. It's probably not physically located under the surface of the earth, otherwise its depth would crush everything. It's probably some other dimension connected to our world through the gate of hell, similar to the gate of guf.

So three options:

1) The whole additional impact happens underground with the golden barrier delimiting this "underworld" (nobody is shown "exiting" this place during the impact, outside of the life boats and the purple eva infinities going up and flooding the surface of the earth). But it doesn't explain why we see the moon during the additional Impact.

2) For some reason or another, everybody exits the underworld (but it would take some steep climbing and lots of time) and the impact happens outside, on the surface of the earth. I don't think it's the case, it would require Lilith to climb up that underworld and she would be so big you couldn't even spot the Wunder next to it. The scene where it goes through her hands and throws the spear inside her eye makes no sense in this scenario in terms of scale. Also, the four crosses don't appear anywhere.

3) For some reason the additional impact fuses the underworld and the surface of the earth, superposing the gate leading to the minus space to the gate of Hell. Since we see the moon (and probably the sun as well) during the additional Impact, I tend to think that's what probably happens, but it seems, yet again, very convoluted for no good reason.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who's been obsessed with the place's topology during the last part of the movie, I once made a thread about it but it wasn't very popular

edit:
Apparently the door leading to the minus space is the door of guf:

[nerv bae]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who's been obsessed with the place's topology during the last part of the movie, I once made a thread about it but it wasn't very popular

You are not; I was obsessed with it for a bit too until I took a detour into Shikinami obsession territory instead. This is your topology thread? I oughta refocus some of my posts in this topic onto topology and repost them over there.

[Jinroh]

Another thing I never really paid attention to, but it's referred to as "the Underworld / Acheron".

Acheron is the river leading to hell, sometimes called the underworld. And well, the vortex on top of it is called the gate of hell.

So I don't know if it helps, but final impact happens in (a red) hell.

edit:
https://www.wou.edu/wp/exhibits/files/2 ... ianity.pdf
"Violet is also associated with repentance from sin."
It explains the purple eva infinities that come from Hell to be purified.

[DantesInferno]

One thing that no one? seems to have noticed is that the 2I ground-zero is refered to as 旧南極爆心地 (lit. "Former South Pole Ground-Zero").

I saw a Japanese video that speculates that 2I tilted the Earth's axis, but not in the same way as in NGE, where Japan is thrown into a year-round summer/equator (cicadas! yay!), but rather it has approximately the same latitude as it has now, but South instead of North. This is backed up by observation about the vegetation seen in Village-3 (some of which is Spring-specific) and the method used to sow the rice fields (flooded), which is different from what you would use in a summer climate (sic). So in NTE, unlike in NGE, Japan still has four seasons.

And Antarctica/Calvary base is no longer at the "south pole", but of course that doesn't change its location relative to Japan, so the issues with the root of the fifth cross you mention still stand I guess...?

[2Lacissal2]

One idea I had for a while after Shin, where we see the 4th Impact gates open on the ground instead of mid air, is that maybe when doing 2.0 the black sphere we see in the 2I flash back was like Leliel's spherical 'body', actually a shadow of the true flat/alternate dimensional body on the ground.

or it was supposed to be the Golgotha object (if it existed as an idea then) momentarily manifesting on the other side of Guf, in Q we see a ring or sphere of light (with the corona effect) around it, which IIRC is absent in Shin.

[nerv bae]

Bumping because I started a fifth cross digression over in the -46h general topic that I'll now try to drag over here into this dedicated topic:

About the cross, the angle looks different in different shots. All in all, the idea that it could be connected to Lilith came from the similarity to Lilith's fallen cross in 3.0, didnt it? And Lilith has died after all. The main Adam isn't really dead, is he? Still, the 5th cross can NOT be seen in half of the shots in 3.0+1.0 (the ones where only 4 crosses stick out of the rainbow gate), like WTF?!? This whole south pole setup doesn't make any sense except for it being a homage to Ultraman!

I'll take a look at angle differences and missing crosses this week, but do you have any screenshots showing egregious examples?

The next idea contradicts everything we have seen on screen regarding "cross explosions" (whether they correspond to an Angle dying or not), It is possible that these crosses originate at the head, and "project" (grow) downward towards the base, while rotatating from an oblique position all the wat to "upright"?

So during 2I, each of the five crosses initially "spawns" somewhere high in the sky above the South Pole, and gradually grows (extends) its "pole" section downwards, in a diagonal direction (not completely vertically) until it reaches the ground. From there on, the base point slowly moves along the ground, seeking towards the epicenter, while the cross's "head" and "arms" parts rise even higher, but staying above the same initial point on the ground. Four crosses made it all the way to the "upright position", but the 5th didn't... It is quite involded of an idea, but explains the disparate base point of the 5th cross as a "partially erect" outlier...

That's a fun idea; where did it come from?

[DantesInferno]

That's a fun idea; where did it come from?

I came up with it myself

It has no reason to be true whatsoever, other than it agrees with (i.e., does not contradict) what we see on screen.

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Off topic (so please don't let this hijack the thread), but I finally saw Nausicaä for the first time the other day, and the gestating Giant reminded me of the "womb" where they mature Eva-13 in 3.0. I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere before, and I missed it simply because I didn't know what to look for...

[Adam]

Bumping because I started a fifth cross digression over in the -46h general topic that I'll now try to drag over here into this dedicated topic:

About the cross, the angle looks different in different shots. All in all, the idea that it could be connected to Lilith came from the similarity to Lilith's fallen cross in 3.0, didnt it? And Lilith has died after all. The main Adam isn't really dead, is he? Still, the 5th cross can NOT be seen in half of the shots in 3.0+1.0 (the ones where only 4 crosses stick out of the rainbow gate), like WTF?!? This whole south pole setup doesn't make any sense except for it being a homage to Ultraman!

I'll take a look at angle differences and missing crosses this week, but do you have any screenshots showing egregious examples?

Oops, my mistake. My faulty memory seems to have played tricks on me. in 2.0, when Gendo and Fuyutsuki look at the South Pole from space, 4 crosses can be seen sticking out (no 5th). Then in 3.0+1.0 when Gendo arrives there with the Nerv Pyramid/Black Moon, no crosses can be seen sticking out anymore. Instead he "breaks" the layer of the rainbow colored 2nd Impact "gate", which consequently turns white, and suddenly there's no hole in the center anymore, i.e. the whole gate/hole has disappeared and suddenly the 5 giant crosses appear further in front of the Nerv Pyramid/Black Moon (and exactly not in place of where the hole in the center of the rainbow circled gate was supposed to be). OK, I give up. It all just makes no sense to me visually anymore.

[Jinroh]

The circle is not the same, in 2.0 it's gigantic and in the last movie much smaller and not in the same location. I don't know if it's a mistake but something might have changed over there during third impact.

[Adam]

The circle is not the same, in 2.0 it's gigantic and in the last movie much smaller and not in the same location. I don't know if it's a mistake but something might have changed over there during third impact.

Or they just didn't care

[Jinroh]

They were kinda making things up on the fly so I wouldn't be surprised yeah...

[DantesInferno]

The circle is not the same, in 2.0 it's gigantic and in the last movie much smaller and not in the same location. I don't know if it's a mistake but something might have changed over there during third impact.

IIRC, In 2.0 the rings are "above the ground", and have a hole at the center, large enough to be seen from space, through which the 4 upright crosses "peek".

In 3.0+1.0, the ringed surface is uninterrupted, hence the rings at the very center are much smaller, and the crosses stem from an off-center, far apart location.

I think it wouldn't cost Anno & team anything to go back and check the depiction in 2.0 before production of 3.0+1.0 to achieve consistency; so the change must be deliberate, in order to achieve a specific effect in the scene where the black Moon reaches ground zero (and they might or might not have an in-universe explanation?)...

[Adam]

IIRC, In 2.0 the rings are "above the ground", and have a hole at the center, large enough to be seen from space, through which the 4 upright crosses "peek".

In 3.0+1.0, the ringed surface is uninterrupted, hence the rings at the very center are much smaller, and the crosses stem from an off-center, far apart location.

I think it wouldn't cost Anno & team anything to go back and check the depiction in 2.0 before production of 3.0+1.0 to achieve consistency; so the change must be deliberate, in order to achieve a specific effect in the scene where the black Moon reaches ground zero (and they might or might not have an in-universe explanation?)...

And there's still the chance that they just changed the design, because when they made up the Wunder entry and chase sequences and everything years later, they found that they don't like the visuals, if the chase was taking place overground. And if they dove in right at the center of the rainbow thingy, then there'd be no real distance to cover beween the entry point and the goal (Calvary Base) or something. Until I get a good explanation from their side, this is officially the case at least for me.

[AlphaZero]

This also reminds me of the Golgotha object in 3.0 compared to 4.0. In 3 the crosses seem to be coming out of the anti universe while said anti universe is depicted as a globe further inside the gates. In 4 on the other hand once unit 8 goes through the gate the anti universe is right after it and the Golgotha object is further in. It almost comes across as if between movies the anti universe expanded gigantically.