Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Lacissal » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:20 pm

Previous thread on the Fifth Cross:

thread/20687/SPOILERS-Five-Crosses-Six-spears/

There's been a lot of debate about the Fifth Cross at the South Pole, since it visually contradicts what we see in 2.0, both from the 2nd Impact flashback and from Gendo and Fuyutsuki looking at the Second Impact site from space, where there are distinctly 4 large crosses for the 4 Adams. Wether it's related to Eva 13 (and it's still confusing designation as an 'Adams survivor'), the Key of Nebuchadnezzar, both of these two, an unseen 'Fifth Adam' and whether it has always been there or was only 'shown' to us later.

SPOILER: Show
Image


One simple answer would be Lilith, who in 3.0 and Shin is visually associated with crosses that have fallen over. In 3.0 in Lilith's chamber, her cross is clearly depicted fallen over and to the left, at nearly the same angle as the Fifth Cross, and (I don't have a screenshot) is also shown fallen over in the images of Third Impact and Kaji's death with the Mark.06 on top of the beheaded Lilith.

SPOILER: Show
Image


It's likely this cross appeared after Third Impact (2nd Impact- 4 crosses appear, 3rd- 5th added) (less dramatically would be after what happens in Lilith's chamber in 3.0) as we don't see the South Pole between Gendo's space holiday in 2.0 and when the Wunder approaches it in Shin.

As for why a cross would appear for Lilith thousands of miles from the Black Moon there could be multiple answers. Fuyutsuki in Shin mentions 'the artificial recreation of Lilith' during Fourth Impact at Calvary. Other than ideas like how Calvary is clearly not an ordinary site, and the appearance of a large cross on an impacted Earth covered with large crosses thousands of miles away where the Moon's surface has also been transfigured doesn't stretch credulity.

I do have another theory (though it's only seconday so feel free to ignore it) that Lilith was present at 2nd Impact (either she was already present at Calvary, or was brought there as part of the Katsuragi expedition), that the white outline we see at the start of 1.0 is Lilith's (bit more of a stretch, but the outline from the angle we see it does also strikingly resemble Lilith's fallen cross) and she was blasted there after 2nd Impact -as most of the then most logical theories about the vessels of Adams have been superceeded by Shin, we could presume Lilith was the only thing flung away from 2nd Impact, and that rather than an Adam being ejected along with the bloodstain on the moon and being excavated and made into the Mark.06 by SEELE, which we now know would have to have bullseyed the circle of Kaworu coffins, SEELE chose to build their 'true' Evangelion here.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby DantesInferno » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:20 pm

View Original PostLacissal wrote:There's been a lot of debate about the Fifth Cross at the South Pole, since it visually contradicts what we see in 2.0, both from the 2nd Impact flashback and from Gendo and Fuyutsuki looking at the Second Impact site from space, where there are distinctly 4 large crosses for the 4 Adams.


I always interpreted this as:

The fifth cross just isn't visible from Space, because it is tipped so heavilty. Only when we arrive at Antarctica during Operation Yamato it is revealed. This is a obviously a minor plot twist, done on purpose by Anno.

---

Whether that's Lilith or the 5th Adams, it's still open for debate. The five crosses have each an Ultraman glyph attached to it when displayed in schematic view (wireframe) on the Wunder's main screen, immediately before live feed is restored after atmospheric reentry. It is quite possible that there is no 5th Adams, and Lilith is the "5th Ultraman".

The four Ultraman symbols seen on the floor, around a geometric figure on the "preview" for Q do not match exactly the four on the standing crosses. The four on the floor correspond to Seven, Ultra, Ace, and Jack; meanwhile, the four on the standing crosses are Seven, Ultra, Zoffy, and Jack, with Ace on the tipped cross (according to forum cofounder Reichu).

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Blockio » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:04 am

I've seen some speculah that this time around, the difference between Adam and Lilith might be a lot more clerical in nature than last time, that Lilith is just another being that was split off from a proposed Ur-Adam that on 2I split into the four Adams.
I'm a bit rusty on the specifics so I unfortunately can't explain it better than that, but by itself I'm inclined to believe that this might be true
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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Lacissal » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:39 am

I think I should have said that although the lanted cross might be Lilith's (and associated with the ADAMs crosses) I don't think Lilith and the ADAMs are a connected being, but this was something more like the appearance of the crosses and Calvary is more like a visual 'sign' of the succesive impacts.

Will write this up more fully in the Adams/Ships thread but the ADAMs in Rebuild become easy to understand when you abandon imposing any ideas from NGE (a seed of life bearing a different fruit, Lilith's 'counter part', Kaworu's soul etc) on them, and that they're just another class of things/beings like the Spears left behind for a purpose by God/the Gods.

If you had a hierarchy of beings in Rebuild it might be like this from high to low)

(God/Gods who left things behind in the Anti-Universe)
Eva Imaginary
Golgotha Object
-
the 4 ADAMs (possibly also Eva 13 as an 'ADAMs survivor)
the 6 spears
-
the 13* angels (those who ate the Fruit of Life) (or 12 individual Angels as Kaworu is the Grover Cleveland of Angels)
-
Lilin
Lilith

*this should probably be it's own seperate topic and at the moment is more fanwanking, as I'd need to get all the relevant quotes together, but I don't think there's any reason to doubt Lilith's designation as the 2nd Angel. In short:
-in NGE and the CI the two different Fruits and the Seeds are not supposed to mix, what happens is a result of an accident of two seeds of different types landing on the same planet
-in Rebuild, the two Fruits are presented more as choice, and taking the Fruit of Knowledge seems to be treated as 'Original Sin' or a transgression and something for which Lilith/Humanity is punished ie:
-the Angels are those who ate of the Fruit of Life
-Lilith, one of the angels, or the Lilin, either chose the FoK or took it (like the Eden narrative)
-for this reason Lilith (and her offspring) were 'cast down' and punished
-re Gendo's lines in Shin: 'To humanity, who ate of the Fruit of Knowledge, God handed down two destinies. Be destroyed by the Angels bestowed with the Fruit of Life; or annihilate the Angels, supplant them, and turn ourselves into children of God, existing eternally without wisdom. We must choose one, or the other'
-taking the FoK seems to be humanity's original sin and the Impacts/Instrumentality are in a way cleansing man of this

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby DantesInferno » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:39 am

View Original PostLacissal wrote:-in Rebuild, the two Fruits are presented more as choice, and taking the Fruit of Knowledge seems to be treated as 'Original Sin' or a transgression and something for which Lilith/Humanity is punished ie:
-the Angels are those who ate of the Fruit of Life
-Lilith, one of the angels, or the Lilin, either chose the FoK or took it (like the Eden narrative)
-for this reason Lilith (and her offspring) were 'cast down' and punished
-re Gendo's lines in Shin: 'To humanity, who ate of the Fruit of Knowledge, God handed down two destinies. Be destroyed by the Angels bestowed with the Fruit of Life; or annihilate the Angels, supplant them, and turn ourselves into children of God, existing eternally without wisdom. We must choose one, or the other'
-taking the FoK seems to be humanity's original sin and the Impacts/Instrumentality are in a way cleansing man of this


This is quite an interesting analysis. I never took Gendo's line to mean that the two choices were some kind of punishment for eating the FoK, just the reality of the FoK-based lifeforms.

But that is exactly what happens in the book of Genesis (I wen to catholic school, I of all people should have figured this out!!). Yeah, in NTE it is definitely Lilith that passes the FoK to her lilim offspring, so it's her sin, they only "inherit" it. In the bible, it's Adam and Eve.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Lacissal » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:27 am

Yeah, I don't think there's any kind of systematic Kabbalistic/Blakean mythology behind it, but it seems the backstory would be some sort of amalgamation of the Eden narrative from Genesis with the myth of Lilith and her offspring.

Just re reading the chapter in Genesis:
i) God plants Eden with lots of trees
ii )in the centre of the garden are the tree with the fruit of knowledge and the tree with the fruit of life
iii) man/Adam is allowed to eat from any tree in the Garden (incl the tree of life) only explicitly not from the tree of knowledge
iv) Snake enters the chat
v) Adam and his wife (she's not named Eve yet) eat the fruit and become aware of their sexual distinction*
vi) expelled in case they also eat of the fruit of life and become like Gods
vii) Cherubim and the sword placed to guard Eden

Whereas in NGE NERV only had it's fig leaf logo, in Rebuild Tokyo III has a fig leaf logo, the NERV one now incorportates an apple, the SEELE logo has the snake and the apple. Gendo and Fuyutsuki in space in 2.0 seeing the 2nd Impact site comment:

'00:25:18,640 However, there are also those who wished for this miserable state.
00:25:23,140 Because it's a world barred to man, cleansed and untainted by original sin.' (though would have to check the terms used in Japanese)

This might also relate to Fuyutsuki's statement on the Advanced Ayanami series about being 'pure life forms free from sexual distinction' ie free from the knowledge of sexual distinction that came [in Genesis] from the FoK.

I think in Rebuild there's more generally a theme of 'Angels/Gods being set against humanity.' If you extrapolate the purpose of the Huter von Guf class ships to guard the gates to the ADAMs, you have something like:
-on earth, for eating the fruit of knowledge the Lilin face a choice
-be destroyed by the angels
-destroy the angels, take their place as children of god, but lose the FoK and gain in return in FoL
-over this the ADAMs are set guarding the gates of Guf-the entrance to the world of the Gods (like the cherubim set guarding Eden and the fall of man)'

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Raikyu » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:39 am

Those are some amazing discoveries. Thanks for those contributions.

I would like to add that there is a huge Nazca-like outline around the "Gates of Hell" that really resemblances the Cherubin just like described in the bible

I thought that line was a reference to the Fifth Adams/Evangelion 13, but after these discoveries that may not be the case, because Asuka calls that unit "God's Eva" and a "guardian angel" is not the same as a "God".

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Lacissal » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:08 am

Raikyu wrote:I thought that line was a reference to the Fifth Adams/Evangelion 13, but after these discoveries that may not be the case, because Asuka calls that unit "God's Eva" and a "guardian angel" is not the same as a "God".


I think I should have specified more that the ADAMs would be a rough analogy to the Cherubim, not a 1 to 1 correspondence-like most of the lore in Eva, you can see how these things get created by bouncing various ideas and concepts off each other- stuff already in Eva, stuff from series like Devilman and especially Ultraman (that inspired Eva in the first place) and bits and pieces from research. i.e.
-think the planet Golgotha in Ultraman is cool
-look up Golgotha, see it's the name of the hill where Jesus was crucified
-another name is Calvary
-one meaning of Golgotha is 'hill/place of the skulls'
-get image for placing Lilith's cross in Q on a hill of giant skulls

I said in another thread that 'God' is used in various ways in Rebuild, one for the capital G God or Gods who created and left the Angels, ADAMs, Spears, Golgotha Object etc and at other times, for Eva 13 and the Mark.06 for something like 'divine being' or god with a small g.

Atm because of the four armed figure holding the spears we see in the Dead Sea Scrolls next to what are most likely the 4 Adams (and poor old Shamshel tagging along), and Mari's 'ADAMs survivor' line, I'm leaning towards that Eva 13 was one of the ADAMs, but a different one-maybe to control access to the Gates or control the spears, while the other four guarded the gates, or it's some kind of Ur-Eva.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:16 am

I nursed the topic's theory for a bit that the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's, centered over the south pole but rooted at the Third Impact site in Japan. A math genius should be able to tell us the length of the cross (several thousand miles?) and its angle of lean, passing through the earth, based on trigonometry and Japan's latitude on the globe. If the angle of lean from trigonometry matches what we see in this scene then I think it'd be conclusive:

Image

However, evidence against this theory is the path dragged through the L-Barrier by the towed black moon. Assuming neo-NERV HQ towed the black moon directly from Japan down a line of longitude on the globe, then the dragged path should point straight north back up to Japan. But the fifth cross is plainly pointing north on a different line of longitude (like, up toward Kazakhstan maybe?).

In the initial combat scenes over the south pole, the fifth cross is fairly reliably shown in the background to Wunder's starboard, disapearing over the horizon rather than entering the L-Barrier like the other four crosses:

Image

However I have no idea why it's not shown on Fuyutsuki's tactical overlay here:

Image

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:53 am

(Hoping the moderators will excuse this double-post, given the time interval.)

Was thinking recently about the six spears, and whether we see all of them.

Here is the last appearance of Longinus and Cassius before spearing Eva Imaginary together:

Image

That makes two spears. Here is the last appearance of the two Black Moon spears before piercing the Gates of Hell together:

Image

That makes four spears. Here's a fifth spear:

Image

I think I've seen a screenshot of this purple Tree of Life object here on EGF somewhere, but I don't recall a discussion about it actually being speared. But it is, right? The equivalent red structure in EoE is shown to be formed by Eva 01 getting speared:

Image

I don't believe this purple Tree is shown anywhere else in Shin besides this short scene around the 1:37:00 mark. The scene pans down and shows the purple Tree's base extending beyond the horizon:

Image

Much like the fifth cross!

Image

Should we infer that the fifth spear and the fifth cross combine to form the purple Tree of Life?

That makes five spears. The sixth spear we see is Gaius:

Image

In the predecessor cross-and-spear topic, linked in the first post of this topic, Gaius was rejected as one of the six spears as follows:

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Isn’t the Gaius spear the one that Misato and the others “roll” near the end? Gendo is surprised when this additional spear enters the negative space (foiling his plans), so it’s not included in the total of 6.

Under this logic, Gaius would be a seventh spear and we still have an unseen sixth spear. But I will try to refute this logic: There are not seven spears, only six, because Gaius was made from Wunder's Spinal Linkage System material that's just as unique as the Black Moon material used to make the Black Moon spears. But why would Wunder's Spinal material be unique, when there are not one but four ships in the Guardians of Guf class? Two reasons:

1) We do not see any Spinal material in the Erlösung, Erbsünde, or Gebet. We see it only in the Wunder (i.e., Buβe).
2) The Buβe plaque establishes that Wunder is the lead ship of the Guardians of Guf class:

Image

Construing "lead ship" as "first built and most important," it's reasonable to assume Buβe got all the Spinal material leaving none for the remaining three ships. Gendo's error was either in not knowing that the sixth spear resided as potential in Wunder's Spinal material (unlikely because he used the Key and knew literally everything) or in underestimating Ritsuko's ability to figure out that potential (more likely).

(As a final off-topic aside, in the spirit of counting things I think it's interesting that there are four Adams, ships, etc., and three spine segments shown in Wunder's Spinal Linkage System plus a fourth spine in the Key.)

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Blockio » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:15 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:(Hoping the moderators will excuse this double-post, given the time interval.)

oh yeah, you're good. There isn't really a hard line we draw, but generally speaking, if more than a week has passed since the last post and you have something new and somewhat substantial to add, you're good

Construing "lead ship" as "first built and most important," it's reasonable to assume Buβe got all the Spinal material leaving none for the remaining three ships. Gendo's error was either in not knowing that the sixth spear resided as potential in Wunder's Spinal material (unlikely because he used the Key and knew literally everything) or in underestimating Ritsuko's ability to figure out that potential (more likely).

That's an interesting angle actually; it's been my pet theory for a while that Gendo's endless "all within expectation" is not always the truth, as much as him refusing to show any cracks in his mastermind persona, and Wille very much getting the better of him a few times.
I'm not sure on the "first and most important" bit, the Wunder is less completed (at least to Seele specifications) than any of the other NHGs, and looking at the silhouette in the Flashback to Wille's uprising, already had the big comm dishes installed instead of whatever the fuck those pyramids are, so it's possible that the lead ship just refers to it being the one that issues commands to the rest of them, but with how messy and unclear the production timeline of them all is, I don't think that we will ever get a satisfying answer to that question
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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:06 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I'm not sure on the "first and most important" bit, the Wunder is less completed (at least to Seele specifications) than any of the other NHGs, and looking at the silhouette in the Flashback to Wille's uprising, already had the big comm dishes installed instead of whatever the fuck those pyramids are, so it's possible that the lead ship just refers to it being the one that issues commands to the rest of them, but with how messy and unclear the production timeline of them all is, I don't think that we will ever get a satisfying answer to that question

I am being a bit loose with my language "most important" in service of this theory, but "lead ship" has a pretty conventional "first" meaning, at least according to wiki.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Derantor » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:28 pm

Yeah, lead ship simply refers to the first ship in a class. It's most often the smallest with the least features, as subsequent ships get updated and improved, if theres a gap large enough between the start of construction. For an example, see the Admiral Hipper class of WW2. Contrary to how most Mecha anime (and indeed a lot of western media) portrays it, the first unit of a class usually isn't far better than the "series produduction models", so Wunder being less advanced than the later ships is pretty realistic. That it wasn't finished has probably less to do with it being the first, and more to do with it being captured by Wille, which lacked the means to complete the fitting-out process.
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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:14 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:(As a final off-topic aside, in the spirit of counting things I think it's interesting that there are four Adams, ships, etc., and three spine segments shown in Wunder's Spinal Linkage System plus a fourth spine in the Key.)

Amending my off-topic aside: Well, no, actually I think it is interesting that there are five Adams, corresponding to 1) three spine segments (labelled alpha, beta, gamma) shown in Wunder's Spinal Linkage System, 2) a fourth spine segment (unlabeled, but delta?) comprising Wunder's actual spinal member, plus a fifth spine in the Key. I realized this week that that the sixth spear Gaius is created from not three, but four, Wunder spinal segments alpha through delta -- this better supports a thesis that lead ship Wunder carries all four Guf-class ship spines.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby DantesInferno » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:50 am

I think the six spears are all Longinus/Cassius type, four of which are lost during second impact (along with the four Adams seen in the flashback); the remaining two are the one impaled in Lilith up until the end of 2.0, and the Cassius one Kaworu brings from the Moon.

The events of Q and Shin pretty much suggests that Longinus/Cassius are just two possible states of the same type of spear, which can switch back and forth (although the conditions for this to happen are never made clear).

The spear of Gaius is created anew by Wille, and thus separate from the 6 that Gendo mentioned in his exposition. This is supported by Mari's dialogue towards Yui when she rides the spear into Eva imaginary, and by Gendo's disappointment when he sees a new, unexpected spear is sent (even though "all holy spears are supposed to be lost")

I remember seeing a theory in some YouTube video (perhaps it was by the Japanese channel "eyes only") where they sepculated that the fifth cross is slanted because the fifth Adams didn't "fully die", so the cross didn't complete its rise to the upright position (not really sure how that would work, or how to make full sense of the principle though...). Of course, this refers to Eva-13, the "surviving Adams" which, even though was not destroyed during 2I, it apparently was somehow separated from its soul.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:25 pm

The trouble I have with "four of which are lost during second impact (along with the four Adams seen in the flashback)" is that the four Adams themselves don't really seem to be "lost" during second impact. Their nature is certainly changed, but nobody thinks they are gone. Mari calls neo-NERV's three Guf-class ships Adams. Alternatively, many fan theories map the Adams onto several of the Evas instead. But nobody seems to think the Adams were lost at second impact; this makes it hard for me to believe that four of the spears were lost there.

And if four of six spears were lost at second impact, where did purple Tree of Life spear in my post above come from (spear #5)? It isn't shown to be manufactured like the two Black Moon spears or the one Gaius spear. Thus it must be either a pre-existing member of the six spears (my interpretation) or not actually a spear at all (but then why show it as a clear spear-parallel to EoE?).

Regarding Gendo and Mari's Gaius dialogue, the Prime subtitles and the Reichu translation differ a bit; under either translation I think it's possible to argue both perspectives -- that Gaius is one of the six holy spears or that it's a new, seventh spear.

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby DantesInferno » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:37 pm

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:The trouble I have with "four of which are lost during second impact (along with the four Adams seen in the flashback)" is that the four Adams themselves don't really seem to be "lost" during second impact. Their nature is certainly changed, but nobody thinks they are gone. Mari calls neo-NERV's three Guf-class ships Adams. Alternatively, many fan theories map the Adams onto several of the Evas instead. But nobody seems to think the Adams were lost at second impact; this makes it hard for me to believe that four of the spears were lost there.


That's a fair point, but I don't think the two are necessarily linked. It is very possible that the spears were lost ("used up") but the Adams weren't. The four standing crosses seem to strongly suggest that the four Adams "died" somehow (haven't come across any other interpretation of the solid croseess, as opposed to cross-shaped explosions seen when an Eva or angel dies. Some are seen far in the distance in Q, when Kaworu shows Shinji the outer world).

It is quite possible that the Adams did die but there "essence" was recreated in the ships (much like the "artificial recreation of Lilith" that Fuyutsuki mentions?).

There's also theories that there are more than 5 Adams, and the four silhouettes from 2I and the ships are completely separate sets of 4.

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:And if four of six spears were lost at second impact, where did purple Tree of Life spear in my post above come from (spear #5)? It isn't shown to be manufactured like the two Black Moon spears or the one Gaius spear. Thus it must be either a pre-existing member of the six spears (my interpretation) or not actually a spear at all (but then why show it as a clear spear-parallel to EoE?).


If you look close, the purple tree of life is clearly being formed by the swarm of purple infinities that poured out of the Doors of Guf when the ad-hoc black moon spears pierced it. I don't think in-world it has anything to do with any of the spears within the NTE continuity. I don't know what it is supposed to mean either, other than a nod to EoE.

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Regarding Gendo and Mari's Gaius dialogue, the Prime subtitles and the Reichu translation differ a bit; under either translation I think it's possible to argue both perspectives -- that Gaius is one of the six holy spears or that it's a new, seventh spear.


Not sure what translation you are talking about, but Gendo actually says:

聖なる槍は全て失っている。世界を書き換える新たな槍はありえないはずだ!


Literally: "All holy spears are lost. A new spear capable of rewriting the world is not possible!"

This is not consistent with Gaius being one of the original 6, somehow unaccounted for by Gendo (which pretty much is the one character who "knows the score" most of all).

nerv bae
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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby nerv bae » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:22 am

Fair points all!

I noticed recently that in Ha's second impact flashback, we're shown the four crosses appearing before we're shown the radiant giants and the spears. In order, it looks like this:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
Image

Assuming time moves forward in the flashback, the radiant giants and spears exist after the crosses appear. I had always assumed the opposite, that the crosses appeared after the radiant giants were killed / suppressed / put to bed / etc. (by the spears or by some other mechanism). Food for thought.

Arcadia's legacy
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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:37 am

There's also that weird sphere rising out of the impact to consider. I don't recall anything like it from subsequent impacts. Any ideas as to what it could be?
Never let the flame that is hope burn out, for despite the length of the night, the sunrise will always come
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu

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Re: Theory-the fifth cross at the Second Impact site is Lilith's

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Postby DantesInferno » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:37 am

View Original Postnerv bae wrote:Fair points all!

I noticed recently that in Ha's second impact flashback, we're shown the four crosses appearing before we're shown the radiant giants and the spears. In order, it looks like this:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
Image

Assuming time moves forward in the flashback, the radiant giants and spears exist after the crosses appear. I had always assumed the opposite, that the crosses appeared after the radiant giants were killed / suppressed / put to bed / etc. (by the spears or by some other mechanism). Food for thought.


That’s so funny, I was thinking about the exact same thing today. It is possible that the shots are shown out of order for dramatic effect, but most likely they occur chronologically.

We know so little about the details of 2I. Apparently the four winged giants were the “triggers” (according to Misato and Ritsuko’s dialogue in Shin). Was the swarm of infinities filling up layer 2 of the L field created at 2I? If so, why do they too look like Eva-01? How did Misato survive just by being put inside a capsule? Perhaps the capsule had pillar technology built in? And what do the solid crosses (as opposed to cross-shaped explosions) represent in the first place? We see quite a few in Q.
What did the expedition expect to find there, and what did they actually find? What did they do to it? Did Dr. Katsuragi came up with the Human Instrumentality Project all on his own, or was he tipped by Seele somehow? So many questions… I could go on all day…

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:There's also that weird sphere rising out of the impact to consider. I don't recall anything like it from subsequent impacts. Any ideas as to what it could be?


That too. Some speculate it is linked to the 8th angel that appears soon after in 2.0. It feels a bit too big though. Perhaps it’s supposed to be the Doors of Guf, but in 3D (a sphere) instead of 2D (a disk) for some reason… This is just a wild thought.


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