How do you feel about NTE? + Rank the movies!

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Konja7 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:13 am

View Original Postdeepseawaterport wrote:Yes, but he failed to inform Shinji that he was commander of Nerv in Gendo's place for a time, that Shinji didn't actually cause the impact (that was in Dogma), so he wasn't to blame for anything... How can I explain this omission/lie without thinking that he was trying to manipulate Shinij? It's pretty crazy.

Well, Kaworu being Commander of Nerv 14 years ago wasn't so relevant at that point.


In fact, in 3.0, when Eva-13 entered in Central Dogma, Kaworu informed to Shinji that the origin of the Third Impact was in Dogma. Shinji wasn't even surprised when Kaworu mentioned this, so I guess he understood the difference between N3I and Third Impact from Kaworu's previous explanation.

The logic seems to be that Shinji is blamed by humanity, because the Near Third Impact was the trigger to bring about the Third Impact (started in Dogma).

Unfortunately, they never explain what is exactly the connection between N3I and Third Impact.
Last edited by Konja7 on Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:17 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:25 am

View Original Postdeepseawaterport wrote:instead of fulfilling his desires, he simply decide to erase the Evas?

Thus showing the maturity which understands that rewriting the whole world according to his own desires would simply have been monumental arrogance, as exemplified by his father.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby deepseawaterport » Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:12 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:
View Original Postdeepseawaterport#928300 wrote:instead of fulfilling his desires, he simply decide to erase the Evas?

Thus showing the maturity which understands that rewriting the whole world according to his own desires would simply have been monumental arrogance, as exemplified by his father.


How is this not arrogance? His parents spent their whole lives dedicated to building the evas, his mother even died for the creation of Eva 01. There was much more to the Evas beyond the suffering caused by the impacts, yet he decided to throw all of this away just because of what, he fished some time in a village with some survivors? This is a very immature reaction to humanity and even reality altering things.
What are his stakes at his? His motivations? His actual desires in life?

For me it's more like he regressed to the boy that didn't want to pilot the Eva before fighting the Thirteenth Angel and thus he decided to erase the Evas altogether. What a great way of cleaning a mess and dealing with responsibilities, just erase it swiping it under a carpet.

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Postby Slowpokeking » Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:47 am

View Original Postdeepseawaterport wrote:The rebuild was such a waste of time. This message of "grow up" is so vapid and repetitive. The third rebuild was brave and interesting, specially as some kind of suffering porn to see Shinji debased and ill treated by others, but at the same time it was filled with holes and inconsistencies, it only makes sense if I assume Kaworu is trying to manipulate Shinji by giving him false information.
Now 3.0+1.0 simply doesn't offer anything. The exposition dialogues, long monologues, uninteresting fight scenes- how Asuka in EoE against the mass produce Evas was powerful in comparison!-, how there are no stakes to anything, people just want to foil the plan of this guy to be again with his deceased wife...
Who is the target audience for the rebuild? What is the message? Even when people say it's bad on purpose, it's so cringy. What was Shinji saying "this is the neon genesis, a new beginning"? How can someone be in a position to rewrite reality, and instead of fulfilling his desires, he simply decide to erase the Evas?

I think the message was ok, but the way it was presented was meh.

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Postby Chrad » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:49 am

I enjoyed Shin Eva, but when it ended I it did nothing to lessen the sense I've had since the beginning that artistically, this was all completely unnecessary.

I'd say:
1. 3.0 + 1.0 - By this point I had no expectation of any depth, so I could enjoy it for what it is: an avalanche of absurd super robot imagery. While incoherent as conventional action, the combat sequences are extremely creative and visually striking. Outside of that, it exists in the shadow of EoE, constantly inviting comparisons while never matching its grit or weight, but there's a poignancy to some of the character resolutions.
2. 2.0 - Fun anime nonsense. The focus on fanservice and rushed pacing bring it down, but the film captured something of the charm of the action arc.
3. 3.0 - The most interesting film of the series. I commend Anno's bravery in taking the series way off its expected course, and trying to root everything in Shinji's sadness once more. Unfortunately the very messy script leaves the characters underdeveloped and the thrust of the plot confusing. The pacing is terrible.
4. 1.0 - The first 6 episodes of the series, hyper condensed so as to rob it of the atmosphere and pervading sense of melancholy. The Ramiel sequence, however, is excellent.

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Postby Slowpokeking » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:03 am

Q wasn't executed well, it's not a wise idea to go 14 years when you obviously don't have the time/space to tell it.

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Postby Lickitung » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:05 am

Asuka wearing a different plugsuit
SPOILER: Show
Image


Shinji left.... Shinji right....
SPOILER: Show
Image


kaworu appears behind the original Asuka
SPOILER: Show
Image


the end was fine in my opinion, the problem was the development of the story, many events occur in a hurry, the wunder reaching the south pole, the girl with the pink hair and sakura trying to kill Shinji and then change her mind just because Misato got shot, Shinji piloting the eva01 (wtf ? in the blink of an eye the boy moved from eva08 to eva01)

Rei Q had no interest in reading the books that Shinji left her in her room but she accepts and reads the book that girl gives her in the village, and the cherry on the cake, Rei Q ends up having feelings for Shinji ... everybody loves Shinji !! :uhh: :uhh: :uhh: :uhh: :uhh:

where's yui ? her original plans are different from the show? in EOE at least she participates with some dialogues, in rebuild ....... :facepalm: :facepalm: she was downplayed in a ridiculous way

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Postby deepseawaterport » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 am

View Original PostLickitung wrote:where's yui ? her original plans are different from the show? in EOE at least she participates with some dialogues, in rebuild ....... :facepalm: :facepalm: she was downplayed in a ridiculous way


I was very disappointed with this too: I understood- after the conversation between Shinji and Fuyutsuki at the end of 3.33, Yui having a different surname and the images of her submerging in Eva 01 with that angel like plugsuit- that she was going to be the villain in the rebuild, or that she was going to have a much more prominent and active role, as if everything was a plan by her, including the sufferings of Shinji. Meh.

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Postby SEELE » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:55 am

I wanna make it quick: 1.0 > Thrice > 3.0 > 2.0
Q!Shinji seems to me the puppy that he is. Asuka acknowledges Shinjis and her feelings (which is AxS fuel nontheless). Rei gets some cute scenes. Misato and Ryuji finally get closure and everyone else. Mari takes the literal cake and the little puppy. It is offcial but not set in stone. Just that she refers to him as puppy-kun and her backstory literally being tied to Yui makes Mari kind of a motherly figure. Rather than going for a mature approach like in EoE. But im fine with it. Asuka was literally torn apart by the rebuild (pun intended). Good thing i have Manga and NGE! Asuka. But i guess 2.0 came with his fair share of reprecussions (with the 14 years time skip). So in a sense if Shinji choose to help Asuka in 2.0 this might would have turned out differently and they would have end up together. And so we have to move on from this just like Asuka did, find something new ...

In the end something as insignificant as not taking responsibility when Asuka was hurt, turned it all the way it is between those 2. Mari take your cake :mari_aghast2: .

Goodbye Yui, Rei, Kaworu, Gendou and all of Evangelion. It is finally over and i feel happy.
"Shinji repeatedly rises to the occasion, overcomes his own doubts and fears and puts others ahead of himself to the point of self harm. The situation overwhelms him. Victory does not define a hero. Intent does. He breaks at the end, but after inhuman, overwhelming, borderline comedic suffering." - Chuckman talking about Shinji as a hero
Final Fantasy 7 gets a remake. I hope it doesn't goes the same way NTE did.
Plus I kinda want to be done with this franchise for a while and concentrate on other things in life. - Guy Nacks

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Postby Slowpokeking » Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:22 pm

I compared NGE Misato with her Rebuild character. I feel that the NGE one doesn't need much dialog, just watch the scenes and expression you will get her and like her. Rebuild, especially the last 2 movies were meh. It really rely on the dialog and some big climax, otherwise her character would be as bland as Rebuild Ritusku.

I just don't feel their bond and friendship through most of their dialog in this movie, which is sad. The Raising Project really did a much better job.

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Postby TyroLuuki » Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:00 pm

Some things I liked about the movie, some things I didn't like. Eva has always been such a huge part of my life since I watched it for the first time when I was in middle school, so I was surprised at just how little of an emotional reaction I had to the film after 9 years waiting for its conclusion. I was initially happy to see Shinji find closure with his dad, to see Kaworu, Rei, and Asuka alive and well...but then I kinda felt empty about it after that initial happiness faded. I myself don't even know why I feel so underwhelmed and neutral about Shin, but I definitely want to rewatch it a few more times and think on things more to see if my opinion changes. I will say though, I'm happy I got to see the Rebuild series come to a close, and I'm happy I came to love the Evangelion franchise as much as I did.

My Ranking:
3.0 - 6/10
3.0+1.0 - 5.5/10
2.0 - 5/10
1.0 - 3/10
Kaworu and Asuka deserved better tbh

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Postby Settie » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:15 pm

As it stand i would place them like so.

1. 2.0
2&3. 1.0, tuat
4. 3.0

3.0 was always love and hate for me and after seeing tuat i honestly feel like you could legit skip it and not really miss anything. Shinjis reason for his withdrawl can be hand waved away like everything during the timeskip was without affecting what happens in tuat much.

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Postby baldur » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:57 pm

Finally able to visit the 3.0+1.0 spoiler forum.

So, yeah. That film. Words fail me. Literally - I've typed out and deleted many words in an attempt to articulate how I feel about the film, but it's just proving impossible. In that way, it's very similar to The End of Evangelion.

I think I really loved it?

What I can say for certain is that the first act was nothing short of masterful. The rest of it I'm still processing.

In terms of ranking, my immediate instinct is that 3.0+1.0 sits at the top, followed by 3.0, then 2.0, then 1.0.

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:00 am

1.11 - β+
2.22 - α
3.33 - α+
3.0+1.01 - α-

That's overall; I could give different rankings for thematic development and execution.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby aboose » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:32 am

This will be annoying, but for me it's pointless to rank them. They don't stand alone individually, the narrative is continuous. For example, 2.0 is atrocious if viewed standalone, but contextualized with 3.0 and the final film, it becomes meaningful.

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Postby bucky699 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:34 am

I rank the entire Rebuild a 7/10 I enjoyed the series as a whole but alas the original Evangelion and EoE will always reign supreme, Original + End of Evangelion is and always will be a 10/10 maybe im bias because it was the FIRST anime i ever watched as a kid i used to stay up late past my 9:30 bedtime and risk my fathers wrath to watch it on SBS. I was probably 12 or so and it sparked a love of anime that has lasted over 20 years and will hopefully passed down to my 2 boys.

I liked the more depressing ending of EoE, sure its nice to see Shinji happy at the end with a big boobed girl but i prefered the waking on the edge of an LCL with Asuka and wondering where the world went from there. It sparked the imagination of an entire generation, i wrote and read fanfiction based on what happened after. It was left open for interpritation in such a way that the possibilities were endless.

To be honest the ending of 3.0+1.0 made me sad, sad that it had that closure and changed the way i look at the series open ending. I want to go back to that.

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Postby baldur » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:38 am

View Original Postaboose wrote:This will be annoying, but for me it's pointless to rank them. They don't stand alone individually, the narrative is continuous. For example, 2.0 is atrocious if viewed standalone, but contextualized with 3.0 and the final film, it becomes meaningful.

Definitely agree with this.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:01 am

It turned out pretty Hegelian in the end, didn't it?
2.0 as thesis, 3.0 as antithesis and the last one as synthesis.

1.0 was just kinda setup
I wanted to try harvesting the rice

I wanted to hold Tsubame more

I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like

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Postby Jurrasic » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:32 am

This is a tough one. I think I will have to re-watch 3.0+1.0 a few more times, and possibly marathon all 4 movies in 1 session to REALLY nail it down.

Currently I think I have to go with:

#1 1.11 It didn't break any new ground, but it was a lovingly and perfectly executed re-build (as the title says!) of the first third of NGE, with the same story (with a few cryptic hints tossed in) laid overtop a MASSIVE re-making of the animation quality of those episodes of NGE that it covered. All the little details were lovingly and carefully re-done and expanded upon, and included some wonderful CGI work compared to later movies. (Ugh that Rei head in 3.0+1.0)

#2 3.0+1.0 While it wasn't completely what I was hoping for, it concluded the series in a far more satisfying manner then Eps 25+26 of NGE or EoE ever did. Much was explained although too much was still untouched upon, but this leaves room for a possible 2.5 sometime in the future to cover the time-skip. It also fairly conclusively lays down the fact that Rebuild was not so much a remake or sequel to NGE+EoE, but a continuation and looping story that involved constant failures to 'get it right' as we witnessed in EoE, but this time they got it right by humanizing Shinji before throwing the final choice at at him, and he makes the right decisions to conclude the cycle in triumph.

This movie might become #1 in time, but there were enough complete howlers (Friggin 20 year old Final Fantasy Spirits within had better facial texturing and animation then the goddamn giant Rei head in this movie, not to mention the immersion-breakingly stupid looking skull-head Eva Infinities) and confusing segments to push it down to #2 for now.

#3 2.22 While high quality overall, there were a few very bad animation choices. Especially in the climactic battle with Zeruel where he not only sent out jaws and presumably an everted stomach about 3 football fields long to crunch down on Rei's Eva, the volume of high-pressure LCL that shot out of the remaining boots would have embarassed Yoshihiro Mishimura. (Tokyo Gore Police) Also with the exception of Mari and the Tagbtha Base segment, it also didn't break much new ground until the end when everything completely went off the rails, setting up the clusterfuck that is:

#4 3.33 The timeskip threw out damn near everything we expected (which was the point) and subverted expectations so hard with introducing a 14-year timeskip, new characters, a new mega-powerful flying Battleship and complete and utter confusion about just what the hell went on after Unit 1 was stopped by a spear thrown by a man from the moon. It was also extremely mean-spirited in almost every way with everyone treating Shinji like a leper who was rolled into a den of skunks and not telling him a damn thing, when almost everything that happened in the rest of the movie would not have happened if Misato and the rest of the Wunder crew acted like human beings and filled him in on his obvious confusion. Either way, it was an awful way to handle the timeskip and while suitably apocalyptic at the end, was still unsatisfying overall.

Okay, that's enough typing. time for Sunday breckie!
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Postby Kid » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:37 pm

View Original Postaboose wrote:This will be annoying, but for me it's pointless to rank them. They don't stand alone individually, the narrative is continuous. For example, 2.0 is atrocious if viewed standalone, but contextualized with 3.0 and the final film, it becomes meaningful.


I'd agree, but I know a shocking amount of people who have only seen 2.0 and loved it. Like, a genuinely shocking amount.
What you're saying is true for 3.0 and Thrice, but 2.0 being a casual flashy popcorn flick is why a lot of people in this thread have it ranked it as #1


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