How do you feel about NTE? + Rank the movies!

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby evaunit13 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:55 pm

I've heard friends of friends getting into the series, starting from NGE and working their way up to 3.0+1.0, and I think it just won't have the same cathartic weight without the actual real-life wait.

You could say the same about not being there in 1996, between EoTV and EoE, but that was a much shorter wait. The 14+ years of Eva purgatory, as this immutable constant, made 3.0+1.0 hit different than if it had come out just a year after 3.0.
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Postby Archer » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:50 pm

All I can say is that I personally disagree.

I first watched the Rebuilds in maybe 2017-2018, before watching NGE, had no idea what was actually going on, and decided I should probably just watch the show instead. Which I didn't do until a few years after that, after which I properly became a fan of the series. Since then, I made the very deliberate choice to not rewatch or revisit the Rebuilds until if/when 3.0+1.0 came out. And I think me going in skeptical and at best cautiously optimistic is the only reason I enjoyed it as much as I did. I feel like if I was actually hyped for this movie in any way, I would've come out sorely disappointed.

Anyways, to get back on topic:

3.0+3.0+1.0: 8.5/10. I refuse to judge 3.0 as its own separate movie because I think it only works as a contrast to 3.0+1.0, and can only be properly enjoyed when some questions like "why the fuck is the time skip 14 years when everyone seems like they're still stuck in the past?" and "isn't Misato being kind of a hypocrite since she was literally cheering Shinji on as he caused N3I?" are addressed immediately afterwards, instead of waiting for years uncertain if these questions are ever addressed at all.

I’m even highballing the score a bit here because I have some pretty serious issues with its execution. If I was being a bit more objective I’d give it a 7.5/10. But overall I think it lands the themes so effectively and works as a great conclusion to the franchise, so I’m willing to overlook the areas I have issues with. Really, if the second act wasn’t forgettable Hollywood nonsense it would be an easy 9/10.

1.0: 7/10. Improves some stuff from NGE, but suffers a bit from compression. After rewatching it, Kensuke and Toji suffer the hardest. You lose the scene where Shinji runs away and bumps into Kensuke larping in the woods and they have their little bonding moment, and their friendship with Shinji in general feels a lot less properly developed.

2.0: 6/10. Has some good shit in it, but the first half really is a total mess. There's way too many plots going on and too many cuts to new scenes, and it needed way more time to breath.
Last edited by Archer on Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby baldur » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:10 pm

For the life of me, I will never understand people that view the timeskip as Rebuild's biggest mistake and not its most vital and redeeming feature.

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Postby aboose » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:19 am

View Original Postbaldur wrote:For the life of me, I will never understand people that view the timeskip as Rebuild's biggest mistake and not its most vital and redeeming feature.

I totally agree with you, for what it's worth.

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Postby EvaChero » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:41 am

View Original PostArcher wrote:

Anyways, to get back on topic:

3.0+3.0+1.0: 8.5/10. I refuse to judge 3.0 as its own separate movie because I think it only works as a contrast to 3.0+1.0, and can only be properly enjoyed when some questions like "why the fuck is the time skip 14 years when everyone seems like they're still stuck in the past?" and "isn't Misato being kind of a hypocrite since she was literally cheering Shinji on as he caused N3I?" are addressed immediately afterwards, instead of waiting for years uncertain if these questions are ever addressed at all.



I think a very valid point that I hadn't considered. Now that Thrice is done, putting the 2 together does make a certain amount of sense.
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Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:15 am

baldur wrote:For the life of me, I will never understand people that view the timeskip as Rebuild's biggest mistake and not its most vital and redeeming feature.

Same.

Here's my ratings.

1: 8/10
It's just the first six episodes with improved animation (and a better dub). That's not bad.

2: 9/10
Character development for Rei that was sorely missing from much of the original series. A heart wrenching ending.

3: 7/10
The long action sequence at the beginning was rough, but otherwise, this was a pretty good feature-length adaptation of Episode 24 that delivers on the twist set up in 2.

4: 4/10
Too much action. The stuff in the village was great, and should have taken up way more of the movie. I'd cut almost all of the action out. What makes me give this such low marks is the insulting ending where Shinji escapes from the cruel world he lives in. Everything was leading up to him joining the village and having a peaceful life there as humanity slowly but surely starts its recovery.. but nope. Full blown, cartoonishly happy escapist ending.

Remember how the 2011 Muppets movie ended with the Muppets accepting the loss of their theater and moving on, and then as soon as the credits start, a newspaper clipping reveals they got the theater back anyway? This is like that, but in a serious story with gravitas.

3.0 was all about how Shinji couldn't just pull those spears to undo his mistakes and create a perfect world. Now he just did it anyway. Fuck this movie.

Maybe I'll have a more positive opinion when I rewatch the last one. Right now the thought of doing so stresses me out. I'm just gonna keep looking around online for a steelman of that ending.

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Postby baldur » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:21 am

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:Too much action.

Can't say I disagree.

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:The stuff in the village was great, and should have taken up way more of the movie.

To be fair, it took up an hour of the film. Not that I would have minded more of it.

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:
What makes me give this such low marks is the insulting ending where Shinji escapes from the cruel world he lives in. Everything was leading up to him joining the village and having a peaceful life there as humanity slowly but surely starts its recovery.. but nope. Full blown, cartoonishly happy escapist ending.

3.0 was all about how Shinji couldn't just pull those spears to undo his mistakes and create a perfect world. Now he just did it anyway. Fuck this movie.

I don't think it was an escapist ending, more like the opposite actually. Shinji didn't create a perfect world, he just rid it of Eva. It still bears the scars of all that happened, but people can now finally move on and start rebuilding. Of course, there's a not-so-subtle metaphor here about the audience moving on from Evangelion.

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Postby Malevolo » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:11 am

Thank you Hideaki Anno, i understood your message, it's time to bury and forget Eva, the curse of Eva is over, we aren't stuck in time anymore.

This will be probably my last interaction with Eva and the fandom.

NTE is a solid 10, like Mozart requiem, because it's a requiem, of Evangelion

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:51 pm

A week has passed and I finally feel comfortable talking about tetralogy in greater detail. I will go through each movie, commenting on their strengths and weaknesses.

JO/1.11 - This is a solid movie, in my opinion. Scope, that's the word. This film is aware of its limitations and works its themes around them. It explores many ideas, but they are all bonded by the same theme. We see the world through Shinji's eyes and that works really well. It's simple, but that's why it's good.
The movie obviously takes most of its cues from the original series, but that's not necessarily a problem. The "three angel structure" works very well and and leaves space to breathe. Also, Shinji's arc is cohesive and compelling to watch. His relationship with Misato is a highlight, of course. Overall, I think the transition from a TV series to a movie was well handled. Sure, characters like Toji, Kensuke and Ayanami lost space in the narrative. Still, I can feel their presence.
Besides, I love how JO chooses to introduce NTE's new concepts gradually. It set the stage for what was to come and made subsequent changes that much more impactful! I legitimately adore the mundane and grounded nature of this world and story.
Frankly, there's not much to complain here. Visually, I can clearly distinguish what's new and what's old and that's not ideal. However, this does not detract from the experience.

HA/2.22 - I'm not a fan of this movie, to be honest. It's a disappointment, from a narrative perspective. Almost everything that I like about JO is gone. We don't see the world through Shinji's eyes anymore. In fact, there's not much going on with him until the very last act. Shinji is fighting for others, but he's still looking for his father's approval. Funnily enough, he is not actively pursuing this goal in a meaningful way.
Honestly, this movie tries to juggle too many plot points at once. It follows a very strange structure. We have an angel battle, followed by a "serious" scene, a short music clip (to indicate the passage of time), another major sequence and then a new standoff. It tires the audience by not giving them proper time to breathe. As a result, scenes that are supposed to be emotional just don't hit me as they should. Ayanami, who plays a pivotal role in the final act, is not that present in the first half of HA, for example.
For some reason, despite having less time to work with, Khara thought it was a good idea to keep introducing characters in these films and it all started with HA. Neither Mari nor Shikinami ended up impacting the narrative significantly. Asuka, in particular, went from being an interesting character who complemented Shinji to being the person taken down during the Unit 03 debacle (a role that could have been played by anyone, including Toji). Speaking of which, that whole sequence relies heavily on NGE to draw emotions from its audience (since Shinji and Asuka's connection isn't that strong in this continuity). This is crazy considering how different Shikinami is. The movie spends some time with her, but it never leaves the surface level.
Overall, HA lacks focus and scope. It tries to introduce three new characters and five new angels while teasing Kaworu and expanding Shinji's bond with Ayanami and his father. Frankly, its bombastic and grandiose approach to storytelling fails. Still, there are some things to like here. I'm a fan of how the movie portrays Kaji's character. He has a finger on everything that's happening (when it comes to mundane situations and lore related elements)! Also, HA looks good (even though I'm not a fan of its color palette and use of CGI elements).

Q/3.33 - I legitimately like this movie, even if it isn't "perfect". I've already talked about it here, so I won't go into great detail. Essentially, Q is a very simple film and that's what I like about it. Once again, we see the world through Shinji's eyes. The story is arranged in such a way that the audience is just as confused as the protagonist and that works wonderfully. I like how each character represents something to Shinji, in a way. Kaworu is acceptance, Ayanami is indifference and Asuka (alongside Misato) is rejection. It's such a smart way to utilize the cast and keep the narrative fresh. The scenes in which we are "inside" Shinji's head are frankly the best.
The movie falls flat when it comes to lore exposition. It's weird to think that "original Q" is still part of the story, even though we haven't actually seen it. I mean, sure, getting confused helps us feel in Shinji's shoes. That said, the "lorewack" starts to get a bit intrusive in the last act of the film (which is bombastic in nature). They could've spent less time on pure action and explained what was going on with those spears, for example. Trying to go back and redo your mistakes is framed as an irresponsible and childish act (which I agree). However, I can't blame Shinji for going that way. I mean, Kaworu (the guy he considers knowledgeable) was also tricked and talked him to do so. It seems like everything went wrong simply because those weren't the right spears, when the idea of running away from your responsibilities and trying to fix the world was stupid by nature.
Anyway, it's a fun and rewatchable movie. Also, Kaworu is an interesting character who moves the story forward.

Shin/3.0 + 1.01 - Once again, I really like this movie, even if it isn't "perfect". The second act drags on a bit, the action starts too early and Shinji's recovery arc could've been smoother. Still, it's a nice conclusion that fulfilled me. The movie may rely too heavily on a metalanguage, but that's not necessarily a problem (considering this is the grand finale of a huge franchise).
I won't deny that Shikinami and Mari's characters were poorly integrated into the narrative (when you're talking about NTE as a whole, that is). However, they are much better in this movie! I actually felt their presence in the story and some of Asuka's scenes were surprisingly emotionally driven. Sure, Soryu is the best version of Asuka by a long shot. Still, Shikinami is one of my favorite characters in this particular movie. That said, the highlights definitely go to Gendo and Ayanami.
Speaking of Ikari, I love how he is "hollow" underneath his glasses. While Shinji is maturing, his father is regressing. While Kaji is protecting life, Gendo is destroying it. Here we have a guy who is ready to kill gods and become a divine creature just to go back instead of moving forward. Frankly, Gendo is the antithesis and heart of Shin Evangelion. He is, by far, my favorite NTE character.
As for Shinji, his recovery was somewhat abrupt and I would've liked to have seen him reconciling with Misato in a different way. I would also have loved to see him fishing with Kensuke and enjoying the village life a little more. Still, I'm satisfied with his character. That's mostly because he provides a great counterpoint to Gendo in the second half of the movie. Their interactions are priceless.
I never really cared about happy endings. That's a mere detail for me. I wanted something conclusive and engaging (like the other two endings). Honestly, I got just that. The experience of watching this movie was fun and I will always remember it.

Overall, the tetralogy feels disjointed in some ways. Honestly, it will never be the first thing I associate with Evangelion. That's not an issue, though. Over time, I learned to enjoy these movies for what they are, I guess. Not everything has to be a petard.
Anyway, it's good to see Evangelion finally being over (again)!
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Postby Stan » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:51 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Looking at the amount of bank that Eva still makes, calling anything in NTE "franchise-killing" is a misnomer if I've ever one

I'm not talking about money-wise, but narrative. In my opinion the time-skip is what killed the rebuilds for me. In the same sense as the new Disney Star Wars trilogy didn't flop financially but killed the star wars franchise for many fans.

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Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:16 am

I’m still teetering drastically on 3+1 on account of it having some of my favorite and least favorite things in the entire series. But for me, the tentative final ranking would be

3+1 > 3.0 > 1.0 > 2.0

Suffice to say I don’t see eye-to-eye at all with people who loved #2 and hated #3, which seems to be a lot of people. imo the whole series is an overstuffed, tonally confused mess, but 3 and 4 are the only parts that actually make this series worthwhile as something independent of the original, whereas 1 and 2 feel like the TV series on fast-forward (and, in the case of #2, cheapened considerably by an unfocused narrative, flattened supporting cast and excess fanservice). #3 is the most tonally stable and narratively focused of the films, which it accomplishes by not fucking explaining anything to simply laser-focus on Shinji’s character arc, a whole lot of awe-inspiring psychedelic imagery, and an atmosphere of eerie desolation - and I’m A-okay with that, because those things have always been among Eva’s core strengths. #4 includes some of the most cynical, soulless shit ever in the series, particularly the CG fight scenes and fanservice (of both the sexual and narrative variety) but also has some of the most striking bits of raw expression since EoE, and the last 20-25 minutes are basically golden even if almost nothing with Mari works quite as well as Anno seems to think it does.
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Postby baldur » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:09 am

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote: #3 is the most tonally stable and narratively focused of the films, which it accomplishes by not fucking explaining anything to simply laser-focus on Shinji’s character arc, a whole lot of awe-inspiring psychedelic imagery, and an atmosphere of eerie desolation - and I’m A-okay with that, because those things have always been among Eva’s core strengths.

#4 includes some of the most cynical, soulless shit ever in the series, particularly the CG fight scenes and fanservice (of both the sexual and narrative variety) but also has some of the most striking bits of raw expression since EoE, and the last 20-25 minutes are basically golden even if almost nothing with Mari works quite as well as Anno seems to think it does.

Yup yup. It's the reason why I'm really finding it hard to decide if I prefer 3.0 or 3.0+1.0. The latter has higher highs but much lower lows as well.

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Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:23 pm

Yup that sums up my feelings exactly
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Postby Axx°N N. » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:57 am

@ gatotsu911: Co-sign, and you pretty much present my argument for me better than I did for why I place 3.0 first.

View Original Postevaunit13 wrote:I've heard friends of friends getting into the series, starting from NGE and working their way up to 3.0+1.0, and I think it just won't have the same cathartic weight without the actual real-life wait.

You could say the same about not being there in 1996, between EoTV and EoE, but that was a much shorter wait. The 14+ years of Eva purgatory, as this immutable constant, made 3.0+1.0 hit different than if it had come out just a year after 3.0.

I mean, sure, but that doesn't mean the heightened experience was universally positive. To me it was only a worse disappointment because of the delay. I personally know no one of my 4 long-time Eva watching friends who experienced the so-called "cathartic relief" or elation so many with positive takeaways mention here.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:18 am

Yeah, waiting with bated breath for the final movie was not a universal experience. I spent much of the last 5-6 years becoming jaded about Eva and generally just not thinking about it all that much - just check out the last time I posted here before this week, lol - and based on the previous Rebuilds my expectations for 3+1 were not high. It met my negative expectations, in fact, but also sucker-punched me with some moments of raw catharsis I absolutely wasn’t expecting at all, and that was enough to land me back here.
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Postby Lacissal » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:00 am

View Original Postbaldur wrote:For the life of me, I will never understand people that view the timeskip as Rebuild's biggest mistake and not its most vital and redeeming feature.


Yeah, for me Rebuild is almost synonymous with the timeskip. It's what gives it it's own sense of identity and makes it it's own 'thing'. Without the timeskip it would just end up like the manga as another retelling of NGE, or just NGE with another ending to go with EoTV and EOE.

When Shin came out on Amazon, I rewatched 1.0 on the Wednesday, 2.0 on the Thursday, and Q just before watching Shin with a break for dinner like an Intermission, and despite the 9 years between the two films releases one flows extremely well into the other, and they feel like a single, 250 minute third act to NTE.

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Postby Princess Asuka » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:10 pm

I finally watched the Rebuild of Evangelion movies on Prime Video. Even though I don't really care for Kaworu I loved the piano duet scene with Shinji in 3.33. I loved the Final movie. It was so good and I loved how it managed to tie the TV series into as well. I'm not sure how I feel about Shinji ending up with Mari considering how they barely interacted in the movies. All in all I liked the movies and the ending of the Final movie was a lot better than The End of Evangelion.

I really liked that Shinji actually matured throughout these movies and finally learned that the world doesn't revolve around him. I mean yeah he fucked up big time and caused N3I but people learned to adapt afterwards and in the end Shinji saved the world. Shinji learned that people were able to move on and forgive him even though he nearly caused the end of the world.
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Postby walucigi » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:36 pm

I've finally watched all of the rebuild movies!! :D

Shin: 9/10
Personally, I am very keen on visuals, sometimes more than the actual story. But Shin completed it all for me. I absolutely love the animation, the soundtrack, the characters, the voice acting, the story... it's got it all. It's become sort of my comfort movie now, especially the village scenes. I also love how Rei is portrayed in this movie (and 3.0 as well).
Of course, I won't discredit the other Rebuild movies because they all led up to 3.0+1.0, but now the Rebuild movies feel complete. There are some minor details in the movie that bugged me, but they're not important to the main story.

Q: 7/10
On it's own, Q felt incomplete without 3.0+1.0, and that's what made me hate it the most (besides kaworu getting blown up :nyao:). Now that I've watched Shin, it made me realise how important Q is. Indifferent to 2.0, we got to see more character development in Asuka and Mari. Especially in Shikinami's character versus Soryu (though they are minor changes, they still felt like two entirely different people to me). The ending was heartbreaking though :sniffle:


Ha: 5/10
2.0 was just not it. The story is messy. The characters are kind of just there. Shinji isn't really the main focus of the story anymore. The only thing this movie did was give a little insight into Rei's character (besides her literally only being in less than half of the movie). Normally, I like when movies are sprawled out with different plots going on, but this movie did it just wrong. so wrong. Mari's scenes were pretty cool though.

Jo: 8/10
Not much to talk about here since it's basically like EoE and the first couple of episodes from NGE. But nonetheless, I really enjoyed it ^_^ Great start to the rebuilds.
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Postby hyutrr » Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:30 am

3.0 1.0 is a perfect ending for all the Rebuild and NGE+EoE
so it's my list for the Rebuild
1 - 3.0+1.0
2 - 2.0
3 - 1.0+3.0

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Postby TBsq » Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:36 am

1st = n/a. (There's absolutely 0 point for this movie to exist, it's just a remake but uglier) 2nd= 5/10. 3rd = 4/10. 4th = 5/10.

My critic for all the films, that I consider mediocre at best, are essentially variations of these: badly paced, poor writing, themes handled awkwardly, too few character hindsight/developpment, dull action sequences, appalling 3d sequences, superficial, mediocre music (except the endingof the 2nd), subpar animation (albeit really technical in the 1st half of the 4th), too heavily relying on the lore and not enough on psychology, and a particularily dumb ending in the 4th.
I think GoatJesus pretty much summed up my thoughts, even if I'm a little bit less harsh about it.
Last edited by TBsq on Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.


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