How do you feel about NTE? + Rank the movies!

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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How do you feel about NTE? + Rank the movies!

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Postby BernardoCairo » Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:51 pm

Shin Evangelion is finally about to come out! In light of that, we decided to create this thread. This is a safe space where you can express your feelings about the tetralogy (positive or negative) without interrupting other discussions. Feel free to share your thoughts on just about anything you want. Don't forget about our new rules for discussion, though. Essentially, try not to be a prick.
Also, once everything is set and done, let's all rank the movies! That will be fun!
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Postby The_Max » Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:07 pm

I think Anno did his thing with NTE. He gave a more straightforward answer for some basic questions about Evangelion but he did it the Evangelion way: creating more questions.

I think it's better to rank the whole NTE instead of each movie, I'd say its score is 8/10.
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Postby hui43210 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:44 pm

I'm now in the club of people who have seen the movie. My rankings are:

1) 3.0+1.0
2) 3.0
3) 1.0
4) 2.0

Shin was pretty much everything I wanted and then some. One grip though..... That giant Rei head. One of worst things I've ever seen in the history of animation. Thankfully, Misato kicks it's ass.

All that said, NGE and EoE is the superior work for me. But I think NTE a great job to bring a new take on the franchise, and making it popular again.

Edit: Sadly, I have confirmed what I suspected as I watched the movie. I watched it in god damn dubtitles! Oh well, I suppose there's a lesson here somewhere, I'll have proper subs the next time I see it.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Postby pokcay » Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:55 pm

I watched it directly after it was released at 10:00 PM Indonesian time, it was personally one of the best closure for me.

While there are some gripes (such as the wonky CGI in the latter part of the movie), there was nothing else I can complain about. I simply enjoy the movie as it is, and I'm happy I did so!

Anyway, my ranking would be

1. 3.0+1.0
2. 3.33
3. 2.22
4. 1.11

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Postby Registration2 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:48 pm

Until the last one it had potential to surpass the TV series, in direct comparison, I still rank the first 3 above the TV series. But the last one shat the bed hard, so the best way to experience the basic eva story is still the manga.

the rank goes like this:

1. 2.22
2. 3.33
3. 3.0+1.01
4. 1.11

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Postby sephirotic » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:49 pm

I still dislike 3.0. I still think the Rebuild is not the Remake of Evangelion I wished it was. I guess some elements of 3.0+1.0 I liked more than 2.0, so...

1) 3.0+1.0
2) 2.0
3)1.0
4)3.0
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Postby Blockio » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:34 pm

It's still a number of rewatches too early for me to give anything resembling a final opinion on Shin; so far I can only say that despite not fully understanding why, I like it. There's a lot to unpack in it, a few plot points that I'm not sure I quite agree with, but on the whole, it is good.
As for the other ones; Ha will forever be one of my favorite big dumb action movies (and I say this with nothing but love in my heart) and Jo is also a fun watch, but ultimately Q is where it's at. It'll be interesting to see where Shin is going to settle in this in the long run.
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Postby sephirotic » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:01 am

So far some problems with the movie I have is still the
SPOILER: Show
messy nonsensical flying-Eva-Battleship-fights. Those action scenes are so surreal that are difficult to relate and suspend my disbelief, The poor CG also annoys me, I really miss the Sakuga from EoE on this movie, although animation and art in general is still the best for the 4 movies and by far an evolution over the 810p eyesore that was the 3.0.
I also really disliked the fact that this time looks like Anno killed Misato for good, no quantum Rei saving her soul back into Lilith this time.
Speaking of Rei, I was expecting more screen time and her being saved and interacting with Shinji. I missed the matriarch theme from EoE, but I enjoyed the Gendou backstory and dialogue given to Shinji. That was probably one of the highest point of the movie for me, kind of makes up a little for the lacking character development in the Rebuild.
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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:25 am

Right now I'm at:

1) 3.0
2) 3.0 + 1.0
3) 1.0
4) 2.0

And I still like 2.0 but I've always thought it probably should have been split into two movies somehow, but I don't really know what a natural way to do that would be.

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Postby Swami » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:43 am

I’ll go:

1. 3.0+1.0 (the pure emotional experience and character development of the main cast puts it on top.)
2. 2.0 (Great revisioning of the later NGE episodes with enjoyable new twists).
3. 1.0 (Extremely faithful to the original themes of the T.V series and an incredible visual upscale of the first 6 episodes, but really doesn’t do anything different from its predecessor).
4. 3.0 (Its visually impressive and I love its bold narrative, but it desperately needs the 4th movie to carry it. Has the best OST as well).
Last edited by Swami on Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:33 am

1) 3.0+1.01
2) 2.22
3) 3.33
4) 1.11

It's a tossup between Ha and Q, to be honest. They're both great films, but I enjoy watching 2.22 more than I enjoy watching 3.33. And 1.11 is a solid film, it's just the least innovative and doesn't bring much new to the party.

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Postby Zelk » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:25 am

I don't know if I could really describe how I feel about the movie yet. I feel like a huge ball of emotions that I can't even fully make out. There's no way I could include this in a ranking of the rebuilds at this point.

All I can say for sure is that this is a film that absolutely requires more watches to understand, process and fully form an opinion on (for me personally at least), and I think that's amazing. One of the best parts of Evangelion is that there is so much value in re-watching, both in understanding it and falling deeper in love with it. I would have been immensely disappointed if I were able to watch the film for the first time and feel like I knew pretty much what I thought of it.

I can say that I was disappointed in some ways. I thought some moments that should have been much more impactful fell shorter than I would have wanted (Misato's death and Shinji reuniting with Rei in Unit 01 are the first that come to mind). It felt like they happened really fast and were brushed off a moment later. To be fair, I was a little out of it since my mind was trying to process everything that was happening, so maybe I will change my mind on a re-watch. The music in this film was also the weakest of the rebuilds. There were a lot of scenes that I felt that more/different music would have made scenes more intense (though I can't think of specifics off the top of my head). There were barely any moments that I thought the music was really impactful and enhanced a scene.

I'm still trying to process what I liked about it, but I definitely do know I liked it. The animation and colors were absolutely gorgeous (except that pseudo-realistic Rei head looked horrible lol), the last 30 minutes being a total mindfuck was amazing, and I was in absolute shock at what was happening for most of the film (which is a good thing). I thought the character development was fantastic as well.

It really hit me when I saw the credits roll. The thing I had been waiting so long for and obsessing over for who knows how long was here, and now it's over. It's absolutely surreal.

View Original PostBlockio wrote:It's still a number of rewatches too early for me to give anything resembling a final opinion on Shin; so far I can only say that despite not fully understanding why, I like it. There's a lot to unpack in it, a few plot points that I'm not sure I quite agree with, but on the whole, it is good.


This is exactly how I feel about it right now. I know I like it, but I don't know if I really understand why.

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Axx°N N.
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Postby Axx°N N. » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:53 am

My long-form thoughts are here if anyone is interested. My more casual take is just that I feel really disappointed. Not much of my reactions from spoilers and leaks has changed. I really like some of the animation, but bad frames and CGI elsewhere pretty much evens it out. There's a bunch of chorus dirge in the soundtrack that sounds like it's trying to evoke the abominations of a battle, but I kept finding it unintentionally comedic because often the only tragic stuff happening on-screen was really bad mo-cap. Seriously feels like a video game at some points, and one with bad hit detection. As for the narrative, it strikes me as the Matrix sequels or Star Wars prequels of Evangelion, unconstrained and without ideas. So much of the writing is done just to advance the plot, and the quintessential bad screenwriting mistake of characters talking about things they both should already know (much of what Misato says to Ritsuko, for example) really starts to wear before the 1hr point. As for plot, a lot of the lore just seems like it's taking known elements from NGE and playing math with it so new stuff can be spit out. But the human drama this happens around goes way too fast to really sink in. I don't think there's a single moment I feel the camera taking its time. I'm at a complete loss to find positives. Shinji will never cry again in his life?

I'd rank it something like:

3.0: The art design is beautiful and there's slowness and room to imagine.
1.0: I dig the way pathos and suspense were added to Operation Yashima.
3.0+1.0: Per the above.
2.0: Feels generic, the action is less exciting and dramatic than its NGE counterparts. Something average is less interesting (ie, evokes less response) than a clusterfuck, so it goes last.
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Postby ManureTruck » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:18 am

edit: to clarify, this post mostly focuses on 3.0+1.0 - most people have already talked about the first 3 films to death so I just give my summary opinion on them at the bottom.

I agree with Axx on all points. But especially the music was a HUGE let-down for me. It felt extremely amateurish. And, Joy to the World? Really? I get that it's a Handel tune and it probably worked for Japanese audiences (I'm not certain they understand its Western significance and tiresome saturation, as Christmas is primarily a commercial thing for them and most have probably not been excessively exposed to the song, if ever), but it really took me out of the moment, lol.

Anno's music choices are simply mind-boggling, there are so many things he could have done that would have worked better. Definitely didn't have the same sensitive touch he did when he, for example, chose the Air from Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major for Asuka's MP Eva fight in EoE, or the cantata piece Jesu Bleibet meine Freude later on. They were exceptionally well-chosen soundtrack pieces and set a mood for Eva that I don't think is even CLOSE to well-matched by his choices for much of the Rebuild films (although thankfully they do re-use a bit of the old stuff, I heard Jesu Bleibet meine Freude at least once edit: I wish they had used the choral version of it from its parent cantata rather than piano arrangement).

I also agree with Axx's assessments on the messy writing/narrative. It was ALL over the place. I can KIND of forgive the over-explaining dialogue where characters explain things to each other that both should already know and have no need to talk about, but it's a super common anime trope so I can get over that more easily than the other problems.

The over-reliance on CG in some parts was terrible. Anno and the people he works with do their best work when they are constrained by traditional 2D animation techniques. Even if parts of 2D animation are done digitally now for the most part, like cleaning and coloring, I think the results are more pleasing than ANYTHING that ANY 3D animation firm in Japan can do. I absolutely couldn't watch Berserk (2016) for the same reason. Just awful. The use of 3D (in the way that it's often used inside an anime) is also somewhat controversial among Japanese animators, so I hope the "traditionalists" win out in the end. If you go 3D honestly it should be all the way (e.g. Pixar).

Honestly, if this had come out 8 years ago it probably in all honesty would have been a better movie. Constraints and limits often result in a better film. Lack of constraint can and do result in huge messes (the Snyder Cut of Justice League for example - sure it was BETTER than the theater cut, but it was still a mess). It's pretty clear to me now that Anno is one of those directors who works better with at least some constraints put on him.

edit 2: Oh, and don't even get me started on the very shit dubtitles. They couldn't even edit the timings to feel more natural! It was 100% pure CC dubtitle with no non-CC option. I will re-watch when a proper, high quality fansub comes out with correct translations and reasses my opinion on the writing (although the wonky narrative can't be fixed at this point). I will always be INFURIATED by lazy subtitle jobs from professional publishers. I just don't understand what possesses companies to do this. Providing an english dub is NOT a replacement for correct, well-edited NON-CC English subtitles (CC track should be separate). In the 20+ years I've been an Eva fan I have never watched any of Eva dubbed (beyond very short youtube clips) and I most likely never will. It's not even about the dub quality or other common arguments, it's about having accurate translations, which by necessity, dubs can't always achieve and they have to "localize" instead. High-quality subs are absolutely a necessity for any film released in a country outside its country of origin.

My ranking is:
  • 2.22 (I just think it's well-made and well-executed despite being extremely tropey/fan-servicey/extremely anime, I like it mostly for the last half)
  • 1.11 (again, really well-made, nice to see a whole bunch of classic scenes re-made in much higher-quality animation).
  • 3.33 (the extremely weird tonal shift and weird music in one part (the "duet") kind ruined a lot of the movie for me, a lot of it was ok - the extreme cliffhanger ending, while providing much opportunity for fanfiction, was also frustrating although I'm sure not even Anno realized it was going to be 9 years until it could be resolved).
  • 3.0+1.01 (too many weird tonal shifts, bad writing, mostly bad music except for the credits song - and the overall tone was a little too positive for my liking, you could have had a "satisfying" ending for all the main characters without it being so strangely upbeat - just too out of character for Eva, and as symbolism for Anno's life it's also weird because it makes it seem like he's just oblivious to the world, unplugged from it and all its ills. It really just came out at a bad time maybe).
Last edited by ManureTruck on Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:27 am, edited 11 times in total.

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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:31 am

Might as well just cross post what I wrote on one of the other threads for my thoughts regarding 3.0+1.0, as it also explains why I have a hard time ranking it.

(Note: A lot of this writing is me being writing a similar review to a certain former internet reviewer's thoughts on a film I found very much like it, so my thoughts are gonna line up quite a bit. If you find lines from my post to be almost the same as his, that's why.)

Well, I just finished watching 3.0+1.0.

To be honest, I fully entered into it expecting to just be blown away, with a satisfied feeling at the end. Maybe that's not the right word, given the franchise's history, but at the very least, I expected to be just wowed and left in awe at what Anno and crew delivered in the end. Even if 3.33 snuffed out a lot of my enthusiasm for the franchise, I was still more than willing to give this film the benefit of the doubt. If Anno could pull off one last epic twist, which given the lengthy development and possible rewrites, was also expected, than all else could be forgiven.

Heck, I quite enjoyed the works Anno made during the long 8 and 1/2 wait between films. He excels in the sort of pseudo-philosophical crap that I eat up like candy, and given his renewed creative juices following Shin Godzilla, I sat down with the high hopes that he'd, at the very least, justify all the suffering and character-bashing of Redo, and pull out all the stops.

On the whole, watching 3.0+1.0 was easy. Heck, I'll even say I had a much better time watching it than I did with 3.33, as it was nowhere near as mean-spirited or full of contempt as that one was. Writing about my feelings on it though? That's an entirely different kettle of fish. I say this because I really, really want to say that it was the ending the franchise and all of us deserved, and one that I liked as much as the original series and 2.22 (still my favorite out of the entire saga). Yet sitting down thinking it over after having seen it, I really can't.

For that matter, I think I came to a glum realization while watching the credits roll. We had spent the past 8 and 1/2 years of our lives debating over what it all meant, what exactly Anno had up his sleeve, how each of the characters connected to both each other and their original selves, when really, this is how it was always gonna end. A whole bunch of slow character-building moments at the beginning, a very long, visually dense action-packed climax, and a reset button ending with the fates of some characters left up in the air. There was no real big twist or shock planned at all. Show's over folks. Go on home.

To be fair, getting a completely closed off ending with all the questions answered isn't to be expected from Eva. After all, one of the major draws of the franchise is its open-endedness that encourages the viewer to come up with their own interpretations. But I was just hoping for something more. They could've gone whatever crazy route they wanted with this saga, and instead what we ended up with was, surprisingly, rather predictable, despite all the unsubtle religious and spiritual terms and ideas thrown about willy-nilly.

There are other problems with it sure (some really lackluster CG near the end, certain characters not getting enough development or screentime, resolutions to some relationships feeling rushed or unearned, symbolism that's only there to look cool, areas which felt like padding), but the thing is, the original series has similar problems, yet it worked. Heck, the previous Rebuild films, even 3.33 had that, and they still worked too. I think this film went wrong because it whole-heartedly leaned into the mystical and mind-screw territory, without really having enough build-up to really justify it. The films worked best when it was centered on Shinji's connection to the others, and how he and those close to him grew from them, and I just wanted to see more of that, not a whole bunch of abstract and visually dense imagery that really means bugger all when you start to analyze it.

And it's not just me simply wanting my favored ship or the like to come canon or have closure. A lot of things get that in this film. But it all just feels buried under the weight of everything that is jockeying for screentime. Lots of things explode, colors are assaulting the senses, nightmarish imagery is shown, and yet it all feels hollow. And it all culminates in an ending that is essentially a reset button, alongside making it clear that Anno clearly views it as less of a story and more of a way to express his own personal feelings at us.

To be fair, the original was that as well. But it was much more effective in it for a reason. The franchise's main source for its themes, beyond the mere window dressing of the religious symbolism and Freudian subtext, was that of the Hedgehog's Dilemma. How we all crave the affection and connection we share with others, and yet they also cause us to feel pain. Said pain may lead to us isolating from others to stay safe, but it is not at all what we as humans need to truly live. The world is filled with hardships and painful times, but it is all worth enduring it and living, because through them warmth and love can still reach you. Running away from all that just because you don't want to get hurt deprives you of what is beautiful in the world, and said beauty makes this harsh life worth it all in the end. More to the point, it is through it that we can learn to love both others and ourselves, and we can endure thanks to that.

And here in 3.0+1.0..................it all ends with an Impact that basically causes a reset button on the heroes' lives. Some have said that all the philosophical navel-gazing of the original show was little more than pretentious nonsense, and to an extent that may be true. But there's a reason as to why it became such a cultural touchstone. It was the very rare series that managed to tap even the dimmest basement-dweller and make them think about their lives, if only for a moment. For this film to not do it as well just leaves me with a hollow feeling.

I often said that I had this feeling watching the previews, and upon seeing the film, I hate to admit it, but I really do think that this is Eva's equivalent to The Matrix Revolutions. It's a film that, while having high ambitions and loads of themes and spectacle, ends up feeling anti-climactic and not as impactful as I hoped.

That said, I would still tell people to watch the movie. After all, my thoughts are just the thoughts of one person. Who knows, you may end up coming to the complete opposite of my final thoughts. Just for me though, I expected to be blown away, and yet by the time the credits rolled, I was left feeling nothing.

.....................Dang it, this saga could've been so fricken cool. I can't believe it.
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Postby Asugran233 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:40 am

1.0-6/10
2.0-9/10
3.0-3/10
3.0+1.0-10/10

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Postby ColourMeRed » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:13 am

Like this pretty much:
1) 3.0+1.01
2) 2.22
3) 3.33
4) 1.11

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Postby hui43210 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:32 am

While I highly disagree with the concept that 3.0+1.0 was bad , I do agree that the music wasn’t that great. There are a couple of standout tracks, Paris is great for example, and I actually do like the joy to the world usage, but the majority of the music isn’t that great. Don’t really like Shiros “choir style” these days if that makes any sense. His work in NGE and EoE blow this out of the water.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Postby Gendo's Glasses » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:42 am

The Rebuilds are still great, but it's unfortunate that we didn't get a fourth Rebuild film as much as we got The Last Evangelion Film.

2.22 - just all around good and the extended climax with the Tenth Angel is incredible
3.33 - weird and unsettling, a fun puzzle to figure out, fantastic visuals and ambition
3.0+1.01 - lots of neat stuff, but also really shaky; fantastic final Evangelion text, lousy fourth film; surprisingly lacking soundtrack
1.11 - interesting, but only the revamped Ramiel fight is what sticks with me

I had very little problems with the NTE but the final film really left me thinking that they needed more of a plan and less of a jarring shift between the third and fourth film. 3.0+1.01 seemed like it was walking back a lot of the more unsettling parts of the Rebuilds (Touji dead, no magical fixes, Kaworu is shifty, there is no overarching SEELE plan) and I'm really waiting to see someone provide a reading of the Rebuilds as a whole given how much the last film seemed to be going 'Well, actually...'

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Postby hui43210 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:00 am

Hmmm, I don’t know. I always expected Toji and the gang was still alive. The shirt thing felt like a fake out, a device to try and make people believe they were dead so it would be a “surprise” when they came back. If they intended them to be dead, they would have flat out stated they were dead.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever


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