Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:39 am

^
Thanks for the translations DantesInferno! :D
For the FoIs with an Angel-like mask, looking at Jinroh's post with the images of the early version of 3.0, I think that this is the concept art of what the FoIs should had started to transform into when Fourth Impact happens, my guess is that this is supposed to be the final stage of the transformation of humanity into beings with FoI but without FoK.

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:Side note on the Mark.09... I never really understood how it gets its head blown off so easily by Eva-08's handgun shots, even though afterwards it is always depicted as being pretty much indestructible —even before "awakening": remember Mari's dialogue when she "snipes" it, and the ineffectiveness of the rounds at making any damage.

Perhaps the initial head we see was not the Mark.09's head morphed into the Eva-00 appearance, but just an attachment, a mechanical part made of regular materials (not core), and the actual head was in a "pulled in" state to make room. Durung the final act of the movie, the Mark.09 does not "regrow" a head, but it just pulls its actual head out (doesn't explain why they waited until 4I/unit awakening to do so though...).

That's an interesting theory, it's true that the recoil of Unit 08's pistol when it blows up Mark.09's head implies that it has a high caliber, but later in Lilith's Chamber, the same Mark.09 is hit several times by Unit 08's fuckhuge sniper rifle, which only manages to pin it on the floor without any damage.

Assuming that WILLE already fought the Adam's Vessels in the past, it's possible that the head we see them having in Thrice (the angel mask with their number engraved in Roman numeral on it) is their real face when they are in a "normal" state, and NERV just lobbed it off from Mark.09 and replaced it by a cyclops head attachment in order to trick Shinji into thinking that it was an upgraded EVA-00.

As for why they kept it headless for the incursion in Lilith's Chamber, well, why bother replace it? Mark.09 doesn't need to to function (or even for its pilot to see where she's going) and it'll regrow its head when Fourth Impact starts anyway.

What muddles the water with if WILLE already fought the Adam's Vessels is that the person who identifies it is Mari when she blows up its head, which normally would indicate that WILLE already knows about them, but with Thrice's revelation that she knew much more that she let on and kept a lot of knowledge to herself, with the implication that in a lot of her lines in 3.0 (notably when she identifies EVA-13 as one of the Adams, or that there shouldn't be a 13th Angel and understood Gendo's plan) she was actually talking to herself, I'm not so sure.
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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby DantesInferno » Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:34 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Thanks for the translations DantesInferno! :D
For the FoIs with an Angel-like mask, looking at Jinroh's post with the images of the early version of 3.0, I think that this is the concept art of what the FoIs should had started to transform into when Fourth Impact happens, my guess is that this is supposed to be the final stage of the transformation of humanity into beings with FoI but without FoK.


Yes, it totally looks like the angel-masked infinities transforming into Reis; much like what we saw in 3.0+1.0, but with the heads still attached :D


View Original PostElMariachi wrote:What muddles the water with if WILLE already fought the Adam's Vessels is that the person who identifies it is Mari when she blows up its head, which normally would indicate that WILLE already knows about them, but with Thrice's revelation that she knew much more that she let on and kept a lot of knowledge to herself, with the implication that in a lot of her lines in 3.0 (notably when she identifies EVA-13 as one of the Adams, or that there shouldn't be a 13th Angel and understood Gendo's plan) she was actually talking to herself, I'm not so sure.


I don't know if Wille have already fought the (up intil then, only) Adams vessel a.k.a. Eva Mark.09. Ritsuko and Misato are certainly aware of its existence and original purpose (and of course Mari too).

When Misato picks up the phone in response to the Mark.09 attack on the Wunder, she says "本命のお出ましか", which literally means "Is this the appearance of the favorite?", i.e. "Have they (finally) sent the real deal this time?" (as opposed to the "small fry" that were the Mark.04 series). This doesn't imply anything, though with regards to previous encounters, I think.

It's also not evident whether Mari realizes it's the Mark.09 because: A) It gets it's head blown off yet keeps operating (not much time passes between it and her sying the line, tohugh), or B) It does take the hit straight, without signs of an AT-field of any kind.

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby AsuQa_PsyOp_Langley » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:52 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Side note on the Mark.09... I never really understood how it gets its head blown off so easily by Eva-08's handgun shots, even though afterwards it is always depicted as being pretty much indestructible —even before "awakening": remember Mari's dialogue when she "snipes" it, and the ineffectiveness of the rounds at making any damage.


I'm not sure we can really make heads or tails of the weaponry used in Eva and especially the NTE, if only because of the obscure mechanics of AT fields (what they stop and how you can pierce them sometimes but not others and you cancel them sometimes but not other, etc...) and how much weapons they use in the films. Mari uses an energy rifle in the beginning of 3 (or so it seems ?) but the one at the end is a little ambiguous... She does end up loading special dart rounds in that rifle which suggest it's conventional (combustion / explosive powder) based. Those rounds are absorbed by Unit 13 (?) without effect (?) despite being physical objects because it has no AT field on its own without its drone satellites.

Mark 9 to 12 have no AT fields or never use them that we see IIRC. Bladed weapons, bullets / shells (I imagine the ammo used by Eva in their guns are more akin to artillery shells in size) or bombs will work just fine on breaking cores once the AT field is passed, though projectile weapons have the lowest success rate overall. But then again, as said above, Mk.9 doesn't seem too squishy to Mary's rifle. And Asuka's bullets in at least a couple of occasion are useless against "fully core" robots (either the Angel surrounding Eva 13 or the Mk.9 on the wing of the Wunder) so...

Mari's gun doesn't seem like a copy of an existing one scaled up that I know of (looks Glock-ish but with that huge block in front of the trigger ?). In the series they used a Desert Eagle analogue to suggest it's higher caliber. Though I'm not sure the ballistics ladder really add up (or if it's realistic to have fully automatic weapons at that size). .357M, .44M or .50AE are high caliber & powerful relative to other handgun ammo.

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:52 pm

View Original PostDantesInferno wrote:I don't know if Wille have already fought the (up intil then, only) Adams vessel a.k.a. Eva Mark.09. Ritsuko and Misato are certainly aware of its existence and original purpose (and of course Mari too).

When Misato picks up the phone in response to the Mark.09 attack on the Wunder, she says "本命のお出ましか", which literally means "Is this the appearance of the favorite?", i.e. "Have they (finally) sent the real deal this time?" (as opposed to the "small fry" that were the Mark.04 series). This doesn't imply anything, though with regards to previous encounters, I think.

It's also not evident whether Mari realizes it's the Mark.09 because: A) It gets it's head blown off yet keeps operating (not much time passes between it and her sying the line, tohugh), or B) It does take the hit straight, without signs of an AT-field of any kind.

Oh yeah, I forgot that line from Misato, that all but states that indeed, WILLE fought it in the past. (and now that you mention it, that made me remember that I noticed the same thing years ago on this forum! -o-; )

That makes me wonder if they also fought the rest of the squad (10 to 12) in the past, they didn't seemed surprised by EVA-13 having the number 13, nor the presence of the three other Adam's Vessels (it was the presence of the battleships that surprised them), so it's possible that they had indeed encounter with everyone through the years.

As for Mari not realizing that it was an Adam's Vessel, I can see two reasons:
  • she thought that it was just a normal Eva that neo-NERV pulled out from somewhere to trick Shinji into thinking that it was EVA-00, and realized that it was actually a disguised Mark.09 when she blew its head off and it kept moving. Although it's shown that WILLE can identify the energy signature of the Evas, so she should had known from the beginning that it was Mark.09.
  • they actually never managed to damage Mark.09-12 until now, and though all this time that those were just normal Evas with a very strong armor (I doubt that Asuka and Mari would suck to the point of never having landed a hit against them in 14 years!), and it's only when Mari finally managed to damage one that she realized that hey, this is not a normal Evas, but an Adam's Vessel! So that means that the three others are probably Vessels too! It's possible that they never managed to damage them enough to figure that out until now, and this time it worked because Mark.09's cyclops head was just an attachment for the mission. That would explain why Mari's pistol blew off its head, yet later her giant sniper rifle didn't even dented its armor despite taking several direct hits: because this time it was its actually, nigh indestructible body.
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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:22 pm

This is probably the best place to put it short of a dedicated thread, but I don't think it warrants that without a transcript and stuff, but a nice tidbit here:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... yamura.mp3

Miyamura went on Hayashibara's talk show, Tokyo Boogie Night. Yes. The same one listed on Gwern, where they talked about Eva 25+ years ago, and they're doing it again, though this talk is about Miyamura's upcoming book. Apparently they are friends IRL and it's super cute.

Short excerpt from my translator buddy, Darkbluezero:

They're saying they weren't aware of the notion of the timeleap initially
So, they're basically implying stuff changed a lot as the movies went on
Other than that, nothing much
Ahhh, also, she was basically told "forget about Sohryu's existence"
Yeah, that was basically the meaning of it
But, they said "ganbarimashou" when it comes to performing Asuka and Rei :LASPepeAdmire:
i.e. it's not over doing those characters

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby nerv bae » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:55 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Short excerpt from my translator buddy, Darkbluezero:

...
But, they said "ganbarimashou" when it comes to performing Asuka and Rei :LASPepeAdmire:
i.e. it's not over doing those characters

I'd like to better understand the meaning of "it's not over doing those characters". This statement was made in a contemporary interview about post-NGE feelings 25+ years ago, or about contemporary feelings today (i.e., even in 2023 "it's not over doing those characters")?

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:10 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Short excerpt from my translator buddy, Darkbluezero:

They're saying they weren't aware of the notion of the timeleap initially

I remember reading here that only Kaworu's VA was made informed in advance for the timeskip, and that everyone else learned it the day they started to work on 3.0.


View Original Postnerv bae wrote:
View Original PostFelipeFritschF#939824 wrote:Short excerpt from my translator buddy, Darkbluezero:


I'd like to better understand the meaning of "it's not over doing those characters". This statement was made in a contemporary interview about post-NGE feelings 25+ years ago, or about contemporary feelings today (i.e., even in 2023 "it's not over doing those characters")?

If it's the second, then that could hint to future works set during the timeskip, then Rei's VA would get to voice Rei Q or her predecessors.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:20 am

Significant info, folks. Khara is busy working on something that's not Eva or Shin KR, and - 46h was completed as early as November. Depending on when they started working on it, they probably didn't take very long to finish it at all.


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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:38 am

FelipeFritschF wrote:Significant info, folks. Khara is busy working on something that's not Eva or Shin KR


I can't find it but I vaguely remember when Shin Ultraman came out last year there was an interview with Hideaki Anno in the back of the theatrical pamphlet where Anno mentioned after he was done with Shin Kamen Rider he was planning to help Kazuya Tsurumaki on an original idea of his. So maybe a new Tsurumaki show or feature?

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby Blockio » Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

The pipe dream is full length Iconic Field, but I doubt that is gonna happen
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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:45 pm

Honestly surprised if all of khara has been fully occupied for two years with a short and designs for Kamen Rider.

While I'd be excited for Tsurumaki, what aboit younger khara staff? Yoshizaki is a star at this point. Give him a film!
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Postby MsenjaKagami » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:47 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:The pipe dream is full length Iconic Field, but I doubt that is gonna happen


Huh I've seen Yamashita's art for this but it never occurred to me before now that it was actually a real thing lol. I kinda just assumed it was just cool concept art.

On the other topic though, idk. Boys Invent Great Hero eventually led to SSSS.GRIDMAN and SSSS.DYNAZENON (and now GRIDMAN UNIVERSE) so I wouldn't say it's impossible to see another Animator Expo project also get a chance to be a full thing (yes I know Gridman is Trigger, but same principle). Plus Yamashita still works with Khara so who knows
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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby Blockio » Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:00 pm

Heh, I actually watched Boys invent great Hero just the other day, very topical. But yeah, would be pretty awesome, if handled right, Iconic Field has the potential for being a really great mecha OVA
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
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The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby DantesInferno » Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:52 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:That makes me wonder if they also fought the rest of the squad (10 to 12) in the past, they didn't seemed surprised by EVA-13 having the number 13, nor the presence of the three other Adam's Vessels (it was the presence of the battleships that surprised them), so it's possible that they had indeed encounter with everyone through the years.


I don't think the vessels 2, 3 and 4 (Mark.10, 11, and 12) were finished by the time of Q. Remember this line by Fuyutsuki in 3.0+1.0, when he and Gendo are about to start their mission:
アダムスの器も全て揃った。


literally: The Adams vessels, too, we've (now) gathered them all.

Unless he's referring to them having just finished repairing/rebuilding the damaged Mark.09 since the events at the end of Q (i.e., they already had the Mark.10~12 on stand by, and were waiting for the Mark.09A to complete the four), but this feels very unlikely...

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:28 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I can't find it but I vaguely remember when Shin Ultraman came out last year there was an interview with Hideaki Anno in the back of the theatrical pamphlet where Anno mentioned after he was done with Shin Kamen Rider he was planning to help Kazuya Tsurumaki on an original idea of his. So maybe a new Tsurumaki show or feature?


Yes, I had brought it up. It was from the Shin Ultraman booklet.

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:So take this with a grain of salt, but I've checked that booklet image with a translator, and they mentioned they actually read the whole thing. The image I posted - sourced from a Chinese fan - omits a few sentences, and in it Anno does confirm he'll return to making new works after whatever he's helping Tsurumaki with: they agree it's most likely an original IP. A very good point that Szmitten brought up is that Tsurumaki himself has also been making every Eva animation for the past 25 years so he doesn't necessarily want to keep doing it or just make "his" Eva (disregarding how he ended up losing control of Shin). My friend believes Shin Ultraman II (2026 or so?) is the most likely possibility, but another one is Anno's 30-year dream to make a Shin Nausicaa of sorts. Anno, who as you know worked on Nausicaa as animator, has been asking Miyazaki about it ever since, and finally got authorization in 2013, while dubbing for The Wind Rises. He's been busy on all the four Shin movies, of course. Nausicaa presents a bit of a problem because Anno would presumably want to adapt the "real" ending, that is to say, the manga, which finished in 1994, whereas the Nausicaa movie was made in 1984. Could be a new bunch of movies (trilogy?) or a series.

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:38 am

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:
View Original PostGendo'sPapa#939890 wrote:I can't find it but I vaguely remember when Shin Ultraman came out last year there was an interview with Hideaki Anno in the back of the theatrical pamphlet where Anno mentioned after he was done with Shin Kamen Rider he was planning to help Kazuya Tsurumaki on an original idea of his. So maybe a new Tsurumaki show or feature?


Yes, I had brought it up. It was from the Shin Ultraman booklet.

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostFelipeFritschF#936270 wrote:So take this with a grain of salt, but I've checked that booklet image with a translator, and they mentioned they actually read the whole thing. The image I posted - sourced from a Chinese fan - omits a few sentences, and in it Anno does confirm he'll return to making new works after whatever he's helping Tsurumaki with: they agree it's most likely an original IP. A very good point that Szmitten brought up is that Tsurumaki himself has also been making every Eva animation for the past 25 years so he doesn't necessarily want to keep doing it or just make "his" Eva (disregarding how he ended up losing control of Shin). My friend believes Shin Ultraman II (2026 or so?) is the most likely possibility, but another one is Anno's 30-year dream to make a Shin Nausicaa of sorts. Anno, who as you know worked on Nausicaa as animator, has been asking Miyazaki about it ever since, and finally got authorization in 2013, while dubbing for The Wind Rises. He's been busy on all the four Shin movies, of course. Nausicaa presents a bit of a problem because Anno would presumably want to adapt the "real" ending, that is to say, the manga, which finished in 1994, whereas the Nausicaa movie was made in 1984. Could be a new bunch of movies (trilogy?) or a series.

What's this story of Tsurumaki "losing control of Shin"?
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:53 am

Shin was initially supposed to be mostly directed by Tsurumaki, but over time Anno took a larger role.

Another interview in Newtype with Ogata and Hayashibara on Miyamura's book:

Last edited by FelipeFritschF on Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby hui43210 » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:00 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Shin was initially supposed to be mostly directed by Tsurumaki, but over time Anno took a larger.


Source? Honestly, first time I've heard this.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:38 pm

I guess "losing control" is too dramatic, but you can see Anno progressively took a more direct role in the NHK doc and such, and it's mentioned in the booklet. I remember Szmitten had also mentioned Tsurumaki's IP were "taken from him" and he was currently only linked to Eva, I guess the IPs didn't transfer to Khara but I never looked into that.

One was his tendency to delegate tasks. As he explained, he believes that if he takes too many responsibilities for himself, the film will end up exactly how he imagined it. Instead, he wants something that surpasses what’s in his imagination. That requires surrounding himself with interesting, creative people and leaving a lot in their hands.

That’s the ideal, anyway. As the film’s release date approaches, the show portrays Anno (reluctantly) taking on more and more tasks directly.

https://otakuusamagazine.com/hideaki-an ... cumentary/

In the booklet:

SPOILER: Show
Tsurumaki: In the beginning, Anno may have thought that he could do a controlled creative work that didn't cross the line, given his experience in the strict live-action production system and his perspective as a director as well as a manager. However, when he started making the film, he was not satisfied with that. "It'd be lying if I didn't portray my own films as my own." And he may have thought, "Such a lie has little value as entertainment."


Maeda: [...] In the midst of all of this, I realized that when I was younger, I was very selfish and insisted on doing what I wanted to do, but as I began to experience directing myself, I began to think about Anno and realized how difficult it is to be a director. I came to think that I should develop the good points of the director system. It's a system where one person gives orders and takes responsibility for them. Anno is also a producer, so he often has to juggle the contradictory positions of being a director on the making side and a producer on the selling side, which is quite a burden


Stage greetings:

SPOILER: Show
Tsurumaki and Maeda had to do everything based on what Anno was feeling. If Anno wanted something and they couldn't do it with their current technology then Anno would delay the project until they could
They say Anno was very fickle and would change his mind on things a lot

Maeda struggled a lot working on Q, whereas Tsurumaki struggled the most working on Shin because he kept trying to match what Anno wanted but couldn't satisfy him and felt he was distanced from him/what he desired
Many times Anno would ask for something, they would draw it, and then he would decide he didn't like it and cut out the scene

[...]they say at the beginning of production for 3.0+1.0, Anno just wrote a bunch of separate ideas he wanted in the movie on a whiteboard and they tried to connect them all with a plot based on that


So there's a bit of a conflict now between Anno "as a manager/producer" and "as a director", and over time Anno delegated less and took on a more direct role. I think it's particularly interesting how Anno more specifically says Mari, who is more or less the symbol of the Rebuilds, was mostly handled by Tsurumaki. (check the sources). Maeda was also brought in as a co-director later, though they don't mention when. I'm sure this will be more detailed in the upcoming CRC. Oshii pointed this out too.

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Re: Shin Eva-Official Social Media: 3.33 You Can (Not) Be Localized

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:57 pm

Yeah Anno has always been in control of Rebuild. He may have delegated more or less before, but he was still the director. Him becoming more controlling towards the end just sounds exactly like back with NGE.

Also Oshii says a lot of things lol.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby


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