The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Slowpokeking » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:51 am

Both type of endings have been shown in EVA parallel universes. I compared these two types of ending, found that I prefer the first one.

Sure the later one usually seem to be so perfect. Everyone lived in a lovely world without all the fear and scar, no death no pain just ordinary lives. In the original EVA world unless you change a lot of plot, the sacrifices are still there.

But I feel that they are not themselves anymore. Without the cruel EVA world's experience, they are just generic characters which could be seen everywhere, lacked the original character depth and touching moments. So the feeling of "happiness" kinda went weak because they've never experienced real pain.

In Raising Project, there is a choice to "stay in the happy world" or "go back to fight" option which also touched me. I think while the EVA world is so cruel and dark, it's worth to fight and resolve a good ending. I do like Shinji Raising Project's take on that, which you can save 2nd Rei and Asuka from tragic fate and fight SEELE to end all this conflict and bring peace.

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:40 pm

That's something that's very specific to the SIRP game (& hence should probably go in the 'everything else' forum)

I don't think Shinji had that same level of power to do anything in the OG setting.

Though i thought that it's neatly done, within the scope of the game itself, in the way that the meta narrative essentially asks you what genre you want this to be (the framing device being Shinji literally brainstorming with Misato about how he wants his foray into creative writing to end)
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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Slowpokeking » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:57 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:That's something that's very specific to the SIRP game (& hence should probably go in the 'everything else' forum)

I don't think Shinji had that same level of power to do anything in the OG setting.

Though i thought that it's neatly done, within the scope of the game itself, in the way that the meta narrative essentially asks you what genre you want this to be (the framing device being Shinji literally brainstorming with Misato about how he wants his foray into creative writing to end)

No I'm talking about all the endings, just using the game choice as the example.

If you wash out all the pain like the manga did in the end, even erase the characters' memory of each other, it's a bit sad in a different way because all these important experiences were gone. I kinda prefer the novel ANIMA's way, but it kinda went too far from the original plot.

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:31 pm

Personally my interpretation of the Manga's ending is that there wasn't actually a reset (we still see that shot of Shinji emerging from the sea of LCL), but that the ppl we see in the epilogue are everyone's reincarnations in a faraway future (which is why the MP EVAs are "relics")
Like what Yui described in the speech about what she's gonna do.

What happens to present day Shinji is simply left open. I assume others gradually came back but civilization was knocked back and that's why reincanation Shinji doesn't live in a world with flying cars & stuff.

As for EoTV, my read is this: It's Gendo's instrumentality, but it still gets undone.

In that sense I don't think they're that different from each other (in terms of actual events) except in flavor & tone
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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Vic Guard » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:18 am

I can't help but agree with the OP. Resetting the world and removing the series' main conflict does sound like a happy ending on paper, but the truth is, it stops being Evangelion at this point. Sure, the cast still consists of characters with the same names and appearances, but without EVAs, angels and all that it's not really them anymore. It just becomes yet another generic slice-of-life story. As such, I believe the "fight in the EVA world and win" ending is a far better one. The world Evangelion takes place in may be crapsack, but it's not hopeless. And if the heroes do manage to actually save the world the old-fashioned way, that's all the better, because such an ending would truly feel deserved and fitting.

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Zusuchan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:54 pm

I think that "creating a new world" can work as a good ending, depending on what it's supposed to communicate and how it's presented. Most times, I think that such endings tend to come off as escapist and devalue the narrative-but that's mostly because most of the times, they are escapist, whereas if they had an actual good thematic meaning, these endings can work just as well as the "fight in the old world" ones.

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:30 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I think that "creating a new world" can work as a good ending, depending on what it's supposed to communicate and how it's presented. Most times, I think that such endings tend to come off as escapist and devalue the narrative-but that's mostly because most of the times, they are escapist, whereas if they had an actual good thematic meaning, these endings can work just as well as the "fight in the old world" ones.

The "creating a new world" works when the old world is impossible to save and that the message is to learn to let go and go forward, one example that works superbly well in a video game:
A certain space exploration game  SPOILER: Show
In Outer Wilds, you play an alien astronaut stuck on a timeloop created by Precursor technology, with your sun mysteriously becoming a supernova and killing everyone after 22 minutes (resetting the loop), and your quest is trying to understand what makes the sun explode and prevent it. Then at some point you learn that there's nothing that blow up the sun: it simply reached the natural end of its life and your species was unlucky to have evolved at the end of the lifespan of their sun... and of the universe itself (you can see several stars exploding in the sky through the loops), and there's nothing you can do to change that, it's the heat death of the universe and your species is doomed.
The only thing left to do is to find and reach the Eye of the Universe (to put it simple, the resident quantum cosmic semi-sentient entity), which then teleports you in a place outside of time and space where you witness through metaphorical visions what's implied to be the death of the last stars of the universe, before helping the Eye to create a Big Bang to create a new universe (killing the hero in the process), but it's still treated as a good ending, because you gave birth to a new universe and life will continue.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Zusuchan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:01 am

I haven't played that game, but it does seem to be a good point in case about how leaving the old world behind/creating a new one can be an artistically legitimate ending depending on what it's meant to convey.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:39 am

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I haven't played that game, but it does seem to be a good point in case about how leaving the old world behind/creating a new one can be an artistically legitimate ending depending on what it's meant to convey.

I can't recommend it enough, it was one of the greatest videogame experiences I had in a long time, it really deserved its BAFTA Game Award 2020.
But I feel bad to had to spoil the plot of the game to make my example, because since it's a space exploration game, the pleasure of discovering the plot is centerpiece to its interest.
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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Vic Guard » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:18 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The "creating a new world" works when the old world is impossible to save and that the message is to learn to let go and go forward.


Good point, but then again, it depends on whether or not the world is doomed beyond salvation. And considering how the Third Impact is triggered and how late into the story it occurs, I believe that's not the case for the Evangelion universe.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 am

View Original PostVic Guard wrote:
View Original PostElMariachi#918045 wrote:The "creating a new world" works when the old world is impossible to save and that the message is to learn to let go and go forward.


Good point, but then again, it depends on whether or not the world is doomed beyond salvation. And considering how the Third Impact is triggered and how late into the story it occurs, I believe that's not the case for the Evangelion universe.

Indeed, that's decidedly not the case in NGE, hell the people in NTE had it way worse with their version of Second Impact that killed all marine life, and yet they managed to survive and thrive and even had projects to purify and resettle the marine life in the oceans! (I'm reserving my judgement for the post-3I world until I've seen Shin)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby Slowpokeking » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:18 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:
View Original PostZusuchan#917750 wrote:I think that "creating a new world" can work as a good ending, depending on what it's supposed to communicate and how it's presented. Most times, I think that such endings tend to come off as escapist and devalue the narrative-but that's mostly because most of the times, they are escapist, whereas if they had an actual good thematic meaning, these endings can work just as well as the "fight in the old world" ones.

The "creating a new world" works when the old world is impossible to save and that the message is to learn to let go and go forward, one example that works superbly well in a video game:
A certain space exploration game  SPOILER: Show
In Outer Wilds, you play an alien astronaut stuck on a timeloop created by Precursor technology, with your sun mysteriously becoming a supernova and killing everyone after 22 minutes (resetting the loop), and your quest is trying to understand what makes the sun explode and prevent it. Then at some point you learn that there's nothing that blow up the sun: it simply reached the natural end of its life and your species was unlucky to have evolved at the end of the lifespan of their sun... and of the universe itself (you can see several stars exploding in the sky through the loops), and there's nothing you can do to change that, it's the heat death of the universe and your species is doomed.
The only thing left to do is to find and reach the Eye of the Universe (to put it simple, the resident quantum cosmic semi-sentient entity), which then teleports you in a place outside of time and space where you witness through metaphorical visions what's implied to be death of the last stars of the universe, before helping the Eye to create a Big Bang to create a new universe (killing the heroes in the process), but it's still treated as a good ending, because you gave birth to a new universe and life will continue.


If they could consist of their old memory and knowledge without resetting everything, I think it's fine.

Reset should only go with a tragic way like the ending of Sailor Moon's first season.

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Re: The two types of good endings, Fight in the EVA world and win VS Creating a new world

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:41 am

View Original PostSlowpokeking wrote:If they could consist of their old memory and knowledge without resetting everything, I think it's fine.

Reset should only go with a tragic way like the ending of Sailor Moon's first season.

The example I cited is more bittersweet than tragic:
SPOILER: Show
the only real sad thing is that your species evolved and developed a civilization right when their sun was at the end of its lifespan, snuffing out their hopes in the process, and even if they somehow managed to escape that, it wouldn't had brought them much time, since all the stars were dying at this point. By the time you reach the Eye of the Universe, you can see your sun exploding far in the distance, killing (again) your species, but by this time you've accepted that there was nothing you could had done to prevent it, and by the time you help the Eye to create a new universe, you're literally the last sentient being in the universe (you meet some of your companions in the weird timeless dimension the Eye brought you in, but it's ambiguous if it's really them or echos made from your memories).
But even then the dialog and tone isn't tragic, but bittersweet, as they are all grateful for the time they had to live and explore their solar system, and how they're about to help create a new universe so life can be reborn. (as one of the companions put it, the future has its foundations in the acts of the people of the past, albeit more literally than usual in this case)
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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