eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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eldomtom2
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eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Postby eldomtom2 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:51 am

I am excited to see this proven wrong, as all long fan theories always are to some extent. This delves into full-on conspiracy theorist territory though, even for a theory focused on the lore. Lore was never a priority for Evangelion and was produced solely as the plot dictated.

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:01 am

View Original Posteldomtom2 wrote:Lore was never a priority for Evangelion and was produced solely as the plot dictated.

Where the hell did you get that from? Are you 100% sure we've been watching the same movies?
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby eldomtom2 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:13 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:
View Original Posteldomtom2#911587 wrote:Lore was never a priority for Evangelion and was produced solely as the plot dictated.

Where the hell did you get that from? Are you 100% sure we've been watching the same movies?

All the evidence from the production of the series? We have Anno admitting he didn't have any idea what Instrumentality/Complementation would be when he dropped it into episode 2!

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby Zusuchan » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:23 pm

You could argue that the lore wasn't the "priority" in the way that obviously Anno cared more about the characters and themes, but NGE and NTE do have in-depth lore stuff as well (NTE even more than NGE) and him saying he didn't know what Instrumentality would mean isn't indicative of the lore not mattering, it's just indicative of him taking the "gardener's approach" to creative writing-he goes ahead and sees how things develop without a concrete fixed plan. Just because something isn't the most important thing about an artwork, doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:23 pm

View Original Posteldomtom2 wrote:All the evidence from the production of the series? We have Anno admitting he didn't have any idea what Instrumentality/Complementation would be when he dropped it into episode 2!

Now, there are two things wrong with that statement.
1) that is a severe misrepresentation of what he actually said. Yes, he didn't know the exact specifics of Instrumentality, but just the name alone tells you that the basic idea was there from the start.
2) NTE is not NGE. The movies go out of their way to show that. The staff involved go out of their way to say that, and have been doing so since the start. Even under the incorrect assumption that "there never was any meaning in NGE", that is well and truly not the case anymore
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby CharPenPen » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:26 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Even under the incorrect assumption that "there never was any meaning in NGE", that is well and truly not the case anymore


I don't think people saying that lore came second in NGE are saying it had no "meaning". The formal experimentation alone in NGE is enough meaning for me. Many of the most interesting movies and directors decide to intentionally subvert their own film worlds, or play with a heightened sense of subjectivity.

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Re: eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:39 pm

and that is perfectly fine! But it's not what eldotom is saying, he is firmly in some anti-intellectual denial about everything.
"NO THIS CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE MEANING I REFUSE TO SEE IT EVEN WHEN PEOPLE POINT IT OUT TO ME"
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Arqa-Apocrypha - state of the lore pre-Shin Eva

Postby eldomtom2 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:32 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:1) that is a severe misrepresentation of what he actually said. Yes, he didn't know the exact specifics of Instrumentality, but just the name alone tells you that the basic idea was there from the start.

You can't take anything away from the use of the term instrumentality because it's a fucking back translation!

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Re: eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:37 pm

Yet the original Japanese is even more damning for whatever the fuck your point here is.

人類補完計画 - Jinrui Hokan Keikaku
Key phrase here being 補完, Hokan. Let's put this into Google translate and see what we get, shall we?
Google Translate wrote:complement, completion
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Postby eldomtom2 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:54 pm

So he ended up making something that fit with what it was called. That proves nothing.

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Re: eldotom doesn't believe in the concept of authorial intent

Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:57 pm

Dude, I just gave you evidence that contradicted your claim, and all you can think of is "but this doesn't prove anything". If you aren't looking for proper, in-depth debate then you are in the wrong place. If you just want your little echo chamber telling you that your fanwank is perfect then get the fuck off here and go back to twitter. Jesus fucking christ that was the dumbest thing I read all day and I'm dealing with loopers in another thread.
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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