Who threw that Lance?!

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Postby directedition » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:55 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:It is a spear which has a will and is a type of lifeform capable of moving by itself. This is an item close to a god and thus able to put a Seed of Life (Progenitor Entity), who holds the power of eternal life, into suspended animation, and this is the reason why the Seed of Life (Progenitor Entity) does not reach god-status. The First Ancestral Race prepared this as a counter-measure in the event that a Seed of Life (Progenitor Entity) did not follow their own goals.


In other words, that's why the lance suddenly pulled out of the moon in EOE.

So anyway, they were able to mass produce the lance? Then why was the loss of the original spear such a problem?

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Postby MaggotMaster » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:17 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:words


I think the whole point of that scene was to make you go "Wait where did that come from? oh shit, those things are still alive?".

I consider it the most logical possibility, but hey, works of fictions are there to be subject to interpretation, I'm merely going with what seems like the most logical option to me, I don't think there's anything extremely complicated behind Nigoki getting stabbed in the face.

And Ornette, I think the whole "LOL LNY COMES FLYING FROM THE MOON FOR NO REASON" and "SUDDENLY, TREE OF LIFE" stuff is enough to give one the idea that the lance is not just a normal weapon.

I wonder, however, if the crazy "will" stuff applies to the replicas of the Lance of Longinus the Mass Production Evas carry aswell.
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Postby Ornette » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:10 am

MaggotMaster wrote:[And Ornette, I think the whole "LOL LNY COMES FLYING FROM THE MOON FOR NO REASON" and "SUDDENLY, TREE OF LIFE" stuff is enough to give one the idea that the lance is not just a normal weapon.

I assume you've factored in the implications of the ATF blur when the spear was pulled from the moon right? The very same blur that happens repeatedly throughout the series, and the multiple times when people get tanged in EoE. Why was there that same blur when the spear COMES FLYING FROM THE MOON?"

Although I think you've misinterpreted my position in this conversation, my post only questions the "the spear means the MPEs were around at the time" and at the same time asks for a reasonable counterargument for what I thought was your stance

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:55 am

MaggotMaster wrote:I think the whole point of that scene was to make you go "Wait where did that come from? oh shit, those things are still alive?".

They were never dead. You need to destroy the core to kill them.

MaggotMaster wrote:I consider it the most logical possibility, but hey, works of fictions are there to be subject to interpretation, I'm merely going with what seems like the most logical option to me, I don't think there's anything extremely complicated behind Nigoki getting stabbed in the face.

The problem there is the Harpies reactivating is only mentioned after the spear hit Kyoko.

MaggotMaster wrote:I wonder, however, if the crazy "will" stuff applies to the replicas of the Lance of Longinus the Mass Production Evas carry aswell.

Who knows, it's certainly a possibility that MUST be considered. The spear being alive and them being copies means at the very least they're clones of the original. Crappy, rushed clones that don't measure up similar to how EVA-00 didn't measure up to the other Evas.
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Postby lengyel » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:20 am

I also think that the lance itself threw to Eva Nigouki, maybe the lance has it’s own will to destroy Eva-02; I think it’s like later in EOE the original lance go after Eva-01 by it’s own will, and remember when Eva-00 in episode 22 “Don’t be”, tossed Longinus Spear and when Eva did that, in DCS, we can hear it roars (the spear).

But who knows
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Postby master0rolando » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:01 pm

since it was orignially an MP Blade when it was thrown at Asuka, i think that means that the MPs weapons were replecas of the Lance...similar to how SEELE was able to make s^2 organs...they made more Lances...the lances mustve taken shape suitable to the MPs...i think its more likely that an MP threw it...

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:07 pm

But which one? Maya seems to indicate they were all inactive until EVA-02 ran out of power.
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Postby cat42 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:12 pm

How was she exactly monitoring the harpies? Perhaps whatever device she used, UNIT-08 was out of range of it? Asuming a harpy threw it. I still think it was self propelled.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:30 pm

Evas give off massive energy readings, especially with S^2 organs. Range being an issue? I think not, they detected and monitored 2 Angels in orbit after all. If EVA-08 was still active the Maya should have been like "Shit Asuka is out of power and that Eva is still active". Maya certainly wasn't happy about the fact Asuka was down since she was the only thing standing between the JSSDF and everyone else but she only acknowledged the Harpies after Asuka was down.
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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:17 am

Eva 08 just lost a leg though.

Perhaps the EVA didn't have to reactivate because Nigoki never "killed" it? I remember Maya saying something akin to "The defeated Eva series are reactivating", what if EVA-08 wasn't ever disabled and thus didn't need to reactivate? Asuka was probably planning to kill it after getting done with 13, too bad she ran out of time.

As for how 08 threw the lance while missing a leg? the same way the other MPEs that threw lances at Nigoki did despite having even more severe injuries and the same way EVA-12 somehow got it's legs back after being chopped in half: Magic.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:41 am

MaggotMaster wrote:Asuka was probably planning to kill it after getting done with 13, too bad she ran out of time.

If the Eva hadn't stayed down, Asuka wouldn't be roaring "KORE WA RASUTOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" as Mama raced towards the final two harpies.

The readings on Maya's laptop are in 100% real time, BTW.

Ornette wrote:I assume you've factored in the implications of the ATF blur when the spear was pulled from the moon right? The very same blur that happens repeatedly throughout the series, and the multiple times when people get tanged in EoE. Why was there that same blur when the spear COMES FLYING FROM THE MOON?"

Could be Yui's ATF, since it happens immediately after she unleashes PHENOMENAL EVA POWERZ!!! But then, she coulda just set off the fireworks to bait the Spear -- since, you know, the incomprehendable logic behind what gets those Spears going surely isn't beyond her supergenius capabilities. In any case, she's already in position when the Spear zooms up to her throat, implying that she had certain expectations. And the Spear doesn't bother skewering her or anything.
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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:05 am

Reichu wrote:If the Eva hadn't stayed down, Asuka wouldn't be roaring "KORE WA RASUTOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" as Mama raced towards the final two harpies.


That's because you know, standing up right after getting your leg chopped off isn't easy, I know by experience.

How is it even possible to completely disable an Eva unit by just chopping one of its limbs off anyway? Nigoki for example was still functional after losing both arms thanks to Zeruel.
Last edited by MaggotMaster on Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:36 am

They weren't disabled -- they were just playing possum. This was to compensate in some small way for the shitty deal they got:

Harpies: Okay, so, when we drop in, the Enemy only has a couple of minutes of power left. All we need to do is circle overhead in the meantime and then trash her with our Spears once she's down, right?
Anno: ... No, actually.
EVA-10: lol wut?
EVA-05: That's not what Herr Lorenz told us.
Anno: Too bad. There's no room for common sense here. First of all, you can't show up with your Spears looking like that. They need to be ... disguised.
EVA-11: What's the point?
Anno: I know! We'll utilize their metamorphic properties and have them masquerade as huge fucking sword-things!
EVA-06: I don't like the sound of that...
Anno: Not only will they be really, really heavy, but their giant blades will provide lots of opportunities for gratuitous GORE!
EVA-12: Which means...
Anno: You don't get to just wait it out. You circle overhead for one cut, and then you land. Then you get to fight.
EVA-13: Are you batshit crazy? I won't do it.
Anno: Keel already signed you off to me, so tough titties.
EVA-13: FUUUUUUUCK.
EVA-08: Feh, what's the problem? Nine of us, one of her. Piece of cake.
Anno: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. You've already been choreographed.
EVA-09: ...what?
Anno: Let me put it to you this way, ladies: This is going to be a massive fucking action sequence, and it's all at YOUR expense.
EVA-11: ......
Anno: Kazuya will fill you in on the details later. But don't worry about things too much. You'll get to dismember and eat one of the stunt doubles for your troubles.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:26 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:How is it even possible to completely disable an Eva unit by just chopping one of its limbs off anyway? Nigoki for example was still functional after losing both arms thanks to Zeruel.

It's not like the Harpies are known for MASSIVE continuity errors, oh wait they are.
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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:47 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
MaggotMaster wrote:How is it even possible to completely disable an Eva unit by just chopping one of its limbs off anyway? Nigoki for example was still functional after losing both arms thanks to Zeruel.

It's not like the Harpies are known for MASSIVE continuity errors, oh wait they are.


Let's not forget about EVA-12 getting chopped in half then having its legs back, yet the wounds are still there and you can see its spine, meaning that it's either an extremely idiotic mistake since they're actually aknowledging that the EVA got cut in half yet somehow it got it's legs back or... actually, it's just a dumb mistake.

Screenshots provided:
[URL=http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap20057qz2.png]Image[/URL]
This is EVA-12 gettng chopped in half, delicious flying torso.
[URL=http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap28319ir6.png]Image[/URL]
This is EVA-12 near the end of the movie, note the fact the lower torso is present, also, note the fact that the EVA has the wounds from the fight with Nigoki, yet is not completely split in half.


The MPEs are also known for being proof that not even a functional S² Engine can make up for the suckiness of the Dummy Plug System.
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Postby Ornette » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:58 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:
Reichu wrote:If the Eva hadn't stayed down, Asuka wouldn't be roaring "KORE WA RASUTOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" as Mama raced towards the final two harpies.


That's because you know, standing up right after getting your leg chopped off isn't easy, I know by experience.

Are you saying eva-08 threw the weapon while it was prone?

looks like it came from up in the air:
Image

I am still convinced that it had something to do with the possibility that one of the MPE's was about to actually be taken down. Sure, none of them put up much of a fight, if they really wanted to, they could have simply turned their weapons into spears and cut her to pieces, but they didn't care. She didn't have an S^2, she wasn't connected to a power supply, they just needed to wait until she ran out of power. Problem was, she was about to destroy a core, can't have that, they'd be doing the whole instrumentality thing sans one MPE. Either the weapon decided on its own to take out Eva-02 before the core would get destroyed or the MPE whose core was about to be destroyed "summoned" it somehow. It doesn't look like it was thrown by anyone.

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Postby Szmitten » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:46 am

It was just thrown by a random one. Everything else is for aesthetics.

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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:01 pm

Ornette wrote:Problem was, she was about to destroy a core

It didn't really look anywhere near being destroyed, but interesting that you point out Kyoko was actually GOING for a core that time...

Either the weapon decided on its own to take out Eva-02 before the core would get destroyed or the MPE whose core was about to be destroyed "summoned" it somehow. It doesn't look like it was thrown by anyone.

Agreed, many times over. Either 13 "summoned" it, or it "threw itself".
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Postby MaggotMaster » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:52 pm

I threw it, I was just trying to get you guys to believe it was 08 so you wouldn't put the blame on me.
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Postby Auriel » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:04 pm

Well, in the actual Christian mythology the LOL (lance of Longinus) did have a mind of its own. It's like the lord of the rings, whoever has the One Ring can detect other rings of power. What I'm saying is the Lance was drawn to the Eva. Maybe, because it's part angel?
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