Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:21 pm

View Original PostTilikvm wrote:
View Original PostBusterMachine4#909966 wrote:The scene is Anno talking to those waifu obsessed fans, those otakus who are so sickly infatuated with the female characters, and Anno is saying to them: Look at this, this is how you are, this is how utterly pathetic and gross you are.

And that's why that scene it's so brutally important.

That part couldn’t ring anymore truer. One of the downsides of the Otaku culture.

I mean, we have guys in their 20’s and 30’s who still thinks Sailor Moon characters are kind of hot. And it seems that Anno is fully aware of this kind of issue.

(I seem to be going off topic here.)
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:59 pm

Ah yes, because Anno definitely hates fanservice and sexualization of female characters. Just look at how completely un-sexualized the female characters in Eva are:
SPOILER: Show
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I see zero sexualization at all. Anno is such a hero! :rolleyes:

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:05 am

Maybe he likes the female form but draws the line at making them jerkoff material?
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:11 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Maybe he likes the female form but draws the line at making them jerkoff material?

I mean, when you're putting incredibly attractive women into your show, and then having the camera drool all over their boobs and butt, you're pretty much asking for it to be turned into jerkoff material. Remember, Anno's Gunbuster OVA included several scenes of female nipples and a scene of full-frontal nudity, all completely uncensored. The only reason Anno didn't go even more intense with the fanservice is because of network censorship.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:21 am

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:Ah yes, because Anno definitely hates fanservice and sexualization of female characters. Just look at how completely un-sexualized the female characters in Eva are:
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
Image

I see zero sexualization at all. Anno is such a hero! :rolleyes:

I’m picking up some sarcasm there.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:27 am

Maybe it's possible to make showing breasts not hypersexual? I mean I'm just spit balling but when I see a woman breast feeding her child I don't think about breasts.

Rei shows her breasts but it's not portrayed as to be sexually arousing. Asuka does it to fuck with Shinji, which I could understand. And then Misato dresses like she does to maybe get attention or just wants to be comfortable, And Ritsuko went swimming so a bathing suit was necessary, though she could have worn scuba gear. Nothing comes off as overtly sexual, except when males choose to sexualize them, like Shinji jerks off the Asuka or Seele makes Ritsuko stand in front of them naked. Definitely dehumanizes them, and now that I think about it, it's usually from Shinji's pov or us seeing him look at them.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:17 am

This is becoming a conversation more inclined for this particular thread.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby LazyPOS » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:19 am

Isn't the topic here "Is Shinji redeemable after the mayo incident?"

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:37 pm

View Original PostLazyPOS wrote:Isn't the topic here "Is Shinji redeemable after the mayo incident?"

Pretty much, yeah. All I can say is that this act is pretty fucked up, and that sends spiraling towards his lowest point than he had thought possible.

On the topic of him being forgiven, I think that’s pretty debatable. I’m not sure if Asuka could forgive him for that(although that part on the train could suggest otherwise), after what everyone had experience during Instrumentality, I think she can at least understand what he’s going through.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:11 am

Had to split a non-sequitur post into the Graveyard. Folks, please try to stay on-topic and take it seriously.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:45 am

It may be worth defining what we mean by "forgiving" Shinji for what he did. When we talk about forgiveness, do we mean we're absolving the person of what they did? Or are we merely choosing not to be angry at them anymore?

Violating somebody's boundaries in a sexual manner occupies a special place in the public consciousness and perception of "badness". Nobody wants to be asked if sexual assault is "worse" than something else, because how do you answer? Do we define the severity of an offense against another person by merely whether or not the offender has drawn blood? I don't want to approach what Shinji has done comparatively, because I'm not interested in how what he did compares to some hypothetical that doesn't take place in the world of Evangelion. So with that said, can Shinji be forgiven?

Certainly we have a good chance of forgiving Shinji. We are the omniscient, omnipresent audience. We know every character's innermost thoughts and desires, are intimately familiar with their experiences, and can understand their relationships with preternatural benevolence and comprehension out of reach to the characters themselves. I think we can certainly find reasons to explain Shinji's behavior without justifying or absolving him of what he did. The question itself, can Shinji be forgiven, begs the question of if what he did is something that needs forgiveness. None of us are arguing what Shinji did is okay, only whether or not we are capable of contextualizing his actions within a framework that allows us to stop being angry at a deeply troubled fourteen year old boy.

I don't think what Shinji did is okay, but I can attempt to understand what he might have felt. I don't absolve him of what he did, but reflecting on the scene within the greater context of the show allows me a level of emotional detachment which allows me to not be angry at him.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby baldur » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:43 pm

I think thread title is kind of an inert question. Shinji is a fictional character and it is not our place to "forgive him" for anything as he did us no wrong in the first place. The question that people are actually answering in this thread seems to be "are Shinji's actions irredeemable?", and personally, I'm not that interested in super moralistic questions like that. As far as I'm concerned, stuff like this is between the perpetrator and the victim, and probably varies wildly case by case. All I can say is that my personal interpretation of the ending is an optimistic one that gestures towards hope for human communication.

BakaBakaBaka wrote:Can we actually say that the reason this is included is to show that Shinji has reached rock bottom? I personally think that it's included to emphasise the selfishness behind his motivations. I watched EoE last night, and have been reading the Save the Cat series of books recently. They made me think of the Hospital Scene and the Beach Scene as the Bookends to EOE, the opening image and the final image. If the purpose of the Hospital Scene is to show Shinji has hit rock bottom there are so many ways that you could do it that this one just doesn't make sense. I think they chose masturbating here because it emphasises his selfishness, and the isolation. The locked door shot isn't there to tell us that he locked the door before he did this, or to show premeditation. They could have shown anything they wanted while it was happening, like focusing on Asuka. Focusing on the locked door gives us nothing to focus on but the sounds Shinji is making, which emphasises that it is all about Shinji, while it also emphasises Shinji's isolation. Shinji ejaculates into his hand when there are plenty of things around him in a hospital room for dealing with bodily fluids because having the shot of his ejaculate on his hand keeps the focus on Shinji and emphasises Shinji's personal isolation.

Contrast this with the Beach Scene. Shinji does another terrible thing, strangling Asuka. But strangling her, as messed up as it is to say this, requires him to connect with her. She reaches up to him and caresses his face. His tears fall on her face. He is no longer alone. There is a whole bunch of stuff here that I am missing, but the point is that I don't think masturbating over a comatose girl has been included for the purposes of showing Shinji hitting rock bottom. I am sure Shinji probably considers murdering a friend the point where he hit rock bottom. Masturbating over a comatose girl has been included so that we as the audience see Shinji negatively. As someone who is selfish. So that when Misato is dragging him through NERV to get him to his EVA we don't see a woman dragging a kid off to die, we see Shinji thinking only about himself and what we wants because we aren't on his side anymore.

WRT the original question, can he be forgiven? Yes, because you can forgive anybody anything. Asuka, in her closing words, acknowledges his behaviour and him as disgusting but does it in a way that shows she has accepted it and leaves it up to us to decide if we want to forgive Shinji. So maybe we should be asking do we feel like forgiving Shinji?

Sorry for quoting the entire post but I really think you hit the nail on the head with everything here. Wonderful analysis.

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:34 am

^
I tried that argument, it came down to them telling me they aren't real people so quit pretending they are but they still held accountable like real people? Something like that

Anyways walk away from convo, you can not reach these keeeeds
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby EVA Unit 10 » Sat May 15, 2021 12:49 pm

No in my opinion its sexual assault and I would not blame Asuka to not forgive him tbh imagine you were in a coma and someone whipped their cream while looking at you in a coma I would not forgive that person I would feel disguted that someone would do that (yes Shinji was in a bad place and while I will defend him a lot this I just can't defend him with)

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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat May 15, 2021 4:26 pm

^
It's worse than coma, she was just heavily sedated, we don't know if she was awake or not.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat May 15, 2021 4:55 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:^
It's worse than coma, she was just heavily sedated, we don't know if she was awake or not.


Her eyes are closed, they are open in the series her heart monitor goes up its very subtle, but it is there this points to the fact she might have been aware but unable to move or react as her drugs were wearing off and her later calling out Shinji on his masturbation fantasies in instrumentally means she knew what he had done.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon May 17, 2021 4:01 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:
View Original PostChaddyManPrime#922915 wrote:^
It's worse than coma, she was just heavily sedated, we don't know if she was awake or not.


Her eyes are closed, they are open in the series her heart monitor goes up its very subtle, but it is there this points to the fact she might have been aware but unable to move or react as her drugs were wearing off and her later calling out Shinji on his masturbation fantasies in instrumentally means she knew what he had done.

Meh, I'm the side that says people have access to everyone's memories in Instrumentality, that's why she says fantasies and not fantasy.
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby baldur » Mon May 17, 2021 12:39 pm

Asuka definitely is aware of what he did by the end, though.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 18, 2021 2:27 am

View Original Postbaldur wrote:Asuka definitely is aware of what he did by the end, though.


Obviously?
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Re: Can Shinji be forgiven for fapping to comatose Asuka?

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Postby EVA Unit 10 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:03 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:^
It's worse than coma, she was just heavily sedated, we don't know if she was awake or not.

Holy Fuck that's ten times worse


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