Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:48 am

Following up from pwhodges' comment in Kuribo-04's thread discussing BusterMachine4's ban, I've decided to take his suggestion seriously.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:On community opinions about bans and the like: these typically appear as threads in the News and Feedback section, and that's fine. An alternative, if that seems too ad hoc, and if it seems worth a change, is the way we've done it at QC, where there is a sticky thread: "Are the mods taking the forum the right way?" in which forum members can discuss decisions of interest (usually after the event), and the mods can give their feelings on the matter. Making it sticky helped ensure that people were confident that criticism was allowed and indeed welcome.
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby hui43210 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:57 pm

Yes.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:43 am

Thanks! But if you (or anyone else) feels otherwise, please inform us in this thread. :D
PM me if you want specific spoilers for Shin Eva 3.0+1.0, but don't want the whole movie spoiled for you!

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:09 pm

Without going into much detail, and also because of donutbruit/decay's ban from the Discord server, I'd like to echo my statements - mostly just republish here, because I'm getting quite frustrated at this pattern and have already discussed it too much elsewhere - that...

In the 99% of the fandom whose perception of EGF the mods seem concerned about this would be considered unreasonable uppity mod behaviour. But I don't think this intolerance of the overwhelming majority of fans is anything but inherently destructive to the community. That coming from pretty much everyone. Decent people, artists, writers, theory crafters, translators. I am not talking about random waifuists or obsessive shippers - they are the only people that might be concerned about any language use, and they'll hate EGF for separate reasons no matter what you do. The forum is gonna die at this rate, even with Shin. Having actually been active in many places elsewhere in the fandom, the general feeling is something "I like Evageeks BUT...", or "Great wiki, terrible forums full of elitist gatekeeper dicks". People appreciate the forums and still read it, but feel afraid of actually posting because it seems anything will get them banned. I still love this forum and its legacy, and having to defend it from all sorts of members who feel resented at it (nothing to do with their actual Eva opinions, FWIW), as well as dozens of formerly active and contributing members is a bit frustrating.

Respect has to be earned, never demanded, and I sometimes get the feeling mods act like Eric Cartman yelling "respect mah autoritah". A lot of it feels not only uppity, but quite arbitrary. I'll also quote myself again, because I really don't want to write anything more. This isn't the first time this has been discussed recently. It's distressing.

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Anyway, I'm still quite supportive of the idea. EGF has faced some natural decline in activity in recent years. While some will argue that forum atmosphere and moderation have played a part - and I do think that's a point worth discussing, theat is also the result of traditional Web 1.0 forums like ours becoming less attractive. While EGF is hardly dead, it could certainly use some reinvigorating. Even now I know dozens of people who still lurk the hell out of this forum but never post anything got a variety of reasons: they often feel intimidated by what they feel is a very clique-y and elitist atmosphere, with apprehension by the forum format being a minor factor at best.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Blockio » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:53 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Without going into much detail, and also because of donutbruit/decay's ban from the Discord server, I'd like to echo my statements - mostly just republish here, because I'm getting quite frustrated at this pattern and have already discussed it too much elsewhere - that...

In the 99% of the fandom whose perception of EGF the mods seem concerned about this would be considered unreasonable uppity mod behaviour.

Unfortunately, the context necessary lies exactly in that "too much detail". The ban was enacted over the phrase "retard faggot" and subsequent attempts at defending the usage of said phrase. As I told you on discord before - the kind of people who take enough issue with not being allowed to use homophobic slurs that they stay away from the forums altogether because of that sole point are people we do not want to have on here in the first place
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby hui43210 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:52 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:
View Original PostFelipeFritschF#908969 wrote:Without going into much detail, and also because of donutbruit/decay's ban from the Discord server, I'd like to echo my statements - mostly just republish here, because I'm getting quite frustrated at this pattern and have already discussed it too much elsewhere - that...

In the 99% of the fandom whose perception of EGF the mods seem concerned about this would be considered unreasonable uppity mod behaviour.

Unfortunately, the context necessary lies exactly in that "too much detail". The ban was enacted over the phrase "retard faggot" and subsequent attempts at defending the usage of said phrase. As I told you on discord before - the kind of people who take enough issue with not being allowed to use homophobic slurs that they stay away from the forums altogether because of that sole point are people we do not want to have on here in the first place


This is exactly why I just said yes. Just because the rest of the internet has sunk to the lowest common dominator doesn't mean this forum has to. I have seen forums die because mods stop modding in the name of "free speech", and it's awful.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby donutbruit » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:23 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Unfortunately, the context necessary lies exactly in that "too much detail". The ban was enacted over the phrase "retard faggot" and subsequent attempts at defending the usage of said phrase. As I told you on discord before - the kind of people who take enough issue with not being allowed to use homophobic slurs that they stay away from the forums altogether because of that sole point are people we do not want to have on here in the first place

The context you're omitting is that I was calling myself (yes, my own self, not anyone else) a "retarded faggot" and the subsequent attempt (not multiple attempts) to explain why I would call myself such a thing.
I can't quote directly post what Zusuchan said that I was replying to since obviously I'm banned from the server, but it rubbed me very much the wrong way and ignited flashbacks to my elementary school days (they weren't good days, to put it lightly.)
I don't care if you ban me off the main EvaGeeks forums for posting this, I just felt like I had to say my peace after having been alerted to this post.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby hui43210 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:43 pm

Rule of thumb, don't use the phrase "r***** f****" under any circumstances. I'm sorry to hear about your experience in elementary school, but that's entirely the point. Everyone has hard experiences in life, and these kinds of words should be left in previous decades.

I admit I don't know the full context of the post, but again, I can't imagine the need to write those two words together.
I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:32 am

People who haven't understood
a) self deprecation
and
b) sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me
should download this font and make it the default in their browser. Just deal with it when you read about the quaint town in the North-East called Svulvahorpe, and and that country between India and Iran called Pakistani peopletan.
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:04 am

While it's fine to self deprecate all you want (I should know; no one ranks the sum total of my importance in life because that very action is an exercise in floccinaucinihilipilification), the usage of slurs is still banned on the Discord server. Self deprecate using non-slurs in the future please.
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:32 am

Also, can we keep to the Vegas rule, and keep the discord-causing Discord server well away from matters to do with this forum.
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:45 am

^ I agree. I'm not even a Discord mod, and did not ban donutbruit. He didn't post slurs on the webosphere where I can do that sort of thing.
PM me if you want specific spoilers for Shin Eva 3.0+1.0, but don't want the whole movie spoiled for you!

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Zusuchan » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:29 am

donutbruit wrote:
I can't quote directly post what Zusuchan said that I was replying to


For anyone interested, here's the exchange:

donutbruit: i can't believe we still don't have a comatose Asuka sex doll
me: A normal Asuka sex doll basically is that.
donutbruit: eyes aren't closed
me: You can pretend they are, just like you can pretend you're a functioning human being while fucking a sex doll of an anime character in your two-room apartment, dreaming how Asuka loves you.
donutbruit: hey, i only pretend i'm fictional when i'm out on walks in public
don't think i'm in denial about being a retarded faggot

As you can see, my own sayings were attempts at the edgy humor I thought donutbruit specialized in and was unaware of his school experiences or the possibility that this could seriously hurt his feelings. I've already apologized to him, but I do feel that if what I said really became an unironic dig in donutbruit's mind, this could explain his subsequent actions. Nonetheless, he knows he has the chance to get back to EGFD after a period of "exile", so this is a moot issue currently.

FelipeFritschF: As for what you have said, I know that EGF has a reputation for being elitist and gatekeeper-y; nonetheless, I fear some reputational damage cannot be undone and younger people are far more interested in social media platforms such as Reddit and Discord than they are in traditional forums, which I think has also contributed to the relative lack of new users (though Shin's release means it has of course gone up for the while). I understand some people feel how they feel and I furthermore understand why they feel like they feel (or at least I hope I do), but there is a certain standard and there are certain things you can't do nor say here, simply because this is a huge forum with a lot of users. I'm sorry, but the majority of the complaints I've had to deal with when it comes to EGF's reputation as being elitist comes out of people being unwilling to accept a certain level of discourse, rather than genuine complaints that would work with what it is right now.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby tism » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:55 am

My question is, where do the mods/admins want to take the forum?

Forgive my ignorance if I've missed previous discussions on this. If you are asking questions like this then what are the biggest concerns?

- The forum is dying (Lack of new blood or comments to keep it moving).
- New members or lurkers are not willing to accept and play by the rules.
- Existing members think the rules don't apply to them due to their standing.
- New members feel intimidated about posting for fear of ridicule.
- The mods/admins are seen as unwilling to change or adapt rules to suit new ideas or cultures on the web.

It seems pretty basic that the answer is the first point. Then why not explain to the members what the mods are doing to grow EG? A semi yearly update on the state of things, changes coming (subforums dropped/added etc) The basic tenants or direction should always come from the top but listening to feedback has always been the way to expand. Obviously EG has done that in spades (Look at the size of this place. :D). So keep listening. Sire some ideas will be binned, but as long as the admins are open to listen/discuss ideas the forum will stay active. It might make the mods/admins uncomfortable but that's what backroom discussions/decisions are for. As long as there's a united group steering the place then the members can know what to expect.

Ultimately, a few people have final say on how they want this forum to be. They\re the ones who will decide if the place peters out or lives on. And if it lives on, it might be a different beast than when it started. It's certainly different know than in the beginning.

Thanks for listening.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:47 pm

One thing to be considered is the old injunction about not messing with success -- the forum is now 2/3 of the way through its second decade, with a population that continues to refresh, even as old hands fade into inactivity.

The time I felt that the forum was closest to being running on fumes was in the period before the first rumblings of the Rebuilds, where the original series and EoE had been generally talked through and positions settled upon, even if with plenty of "agree to disagree" implied, with only a trickle of new material in the form of unearthed interviews and similar from Japanese sources to stimulate discussion. This is the period where we managed to start spinning elaborate hypotheses based on what turned out on closer examination to be merely manufacturing imperfections in the original physical media, and others even less substantiated.

There may be a time after 𝄇 has come out on home video, and there is no sign of any further Eva-as-Gundam activity that we will come to that sort of incipient stagnation again, but that period is a problem for that time, maybe 2-3 years from now.

For the older material (at least up to Ha, as we don't yet have a CRC for Q), there is a deadweight of previous analysis -- we're not going to have the same sort of posting (even assumed translated from the usual somewhat confrontational style) that comes up in /a/'s "WTF did I just watch?" (or, more recently, "N days since the movie was last postponed") threads, which vigorously retreads previous go-rounds.
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:24 pm

View Original Posttism wrote:It seems pretty basic that the answer is the first point. Then why not explain to the members what the mods are doing to grow EG? A semi yearly update on the state of things, changes coming (subforums dropped/added etc) The basic tenants or direction should always come from the top but listening to feedback has always been the way to expand. Obviously EG has done that in spades (Look at the size of this place. :D). So keep listening. Sire some ideas will be binned, but as long as the admins are open to listen/discuss ideas the forum will stay active. It might make the mods/admins uncomfortable but that's what backroom discussions/decisions are for. As long as there's a united group steering the place then the members can know what to expect.


I think this has gotten better recently, but staff not really communicating with the users is definitely something I think has been a recurring problem, and can easily lead to some decisions that might seem arbitrary. There are plenty of ideas that have been floated around over the years and never so much as have been tested. I personally considered stuff like expanding the forums to cover Anno's works in general, bringing back some members/groups like film discussion, modernizing the forum interface (there are some modern, nifty ones) etc etc. I know that's easier said than done but it seems the forums really stagnated in the last 5 ish years.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Blockio » Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:11 am

The problem with most of the ideas of modernization is that they require a stupendous amount of workload to put into action. Sure, a subforum or two wouldn't be an issue, but a complete UI overhaul? We're looking at potentially hundreds of hours of work just to get that up and running in the same way as the current version is, with all of three people backstage who have the skills and access to do it, and none of them have the time to committ to what would quite possibly be a year long effort.
and that, of course, is long before the issue of maintenance and people actually liking the new interface. I for one much prefer this more plain layout to having tons and tons of javascript garbage on my screen that serves no practical purpose beyond increasing loading times
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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Derantor » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:22 am

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:I personally considered stuff like expanding the forums to cover Anno's works in general [...]

At least there's already this sub-forum: Related Works & People, and other works by Anno can of course also be discussed in the respective Anime/Live Action forum.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby Zusuchan » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:37 am

^Yep, and a forum meant to discuss all of Anno's works would probably go against the wish to largen the amount of active posters, since Eva is something more people have an interest in than Anno's other works combined.

As for the forum interface, I agree with Blockio and like the current interface just fine.

When it comes to "bringing back some members/groups like film discussion", then that's something I'd like as well. However, it should be clear that some people won't or can't be coming back due to various reasons and while the return to activity of some past quality posters would be much desired, we can't force them to come here nor am I sure how much of their interest we can rekindle and sadly the decay of some "subcultures" is a natural part of any forum's history. Of course, if anyone has any ideas how to get old users back here, then they're very much welcome to communicate them.

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Re: Are the mods/admins taking the forum the right way?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:18 pm

I don't know if this fits, but I needed a place to comment this where it would be somewhat on-topic.

Is it just me, or have the main members gotten really mean-spirited recently? I mean, especially today, they've been cussing out anyone with a different opinion, telling new members to go back to Twitter and 4chan, and just generally acting like jerks.

Like, the best example was the thread with eldomtom in the main Rebuild forum. He said that the lore has never been the point of Eva (which is true) and used the fact that Anno didn't know what Instrumentality would be until relatively late (another true statement) as evidence. Seemed completely innocuous to me. But then Zusuchan and Blockio came in, made a complete strawman out of his argument, added a snarky title, cussed him out, told him to go back to Twitter, and then locked the thread. I was shocked, especially by Blockio's last post in that thread.

I couldn't help but think about how I almost got temp-banned for being somewhat disrespectful a couple months ago. It seems like what I said wasn't anywhere near as disrespectful as what established members have been saying for a while, and especially recently. Stuff like this is exactly why EvaGeeks has such a bad reputation in the rest of the Eva fandom.


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