Minor Nitpicks

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Minor Nitpicks

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Postby Archer » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:02 pm

Title explains it all. Any minor, inconsequential issues that you might have with the movies that don't actually matter in the grand scheme of things, but still bother you nonetheless.

For me, it's the Awakened Unit-01 design. Like, the green parts of its armor are just paint, why do they magically turn red? There's this one Awakened Unit-01 figure that replaces the purple with magenta and I just think it's a much nicer looking design, and makes it look as if it's emitting a red aura that makes its colors merely appear different to the eye.
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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:59 pm

Looks like this is a good thread to finally talk about something that has been bugging me for a long time.

Namely, how the hell did NERV repair Tokyo-3 after the battle with the 8th Angel? Seriously, the entire city was flooded with Angel blood, so much so that it actually caused the buildings to break out of their foundations. But just a few scenes later, the city was magically repaired, with no sign of any damage whatsoever. Was there something I missed, or was that a genuine plot hole? I'm surprised no one's mentioned it until now.

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Postby JoelcrNeto » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:10 pm

^
There is this shot that shows part of the city still covered by the blood of the Angel, and the buildings still seem to be destroyed. You can see some machines, probably clearing the ground. There are some cranes too:
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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:18 pm

Three possible reasons:
1)Because the fight with the 8th Angel is in Ha and Ha is supposed to suck in terms of being as generic as possible and massive lasting damage disappearing overnight is a very generic thing.
2) It's a genuine oversight.
3) Possibility nr. 2 is correct, but since possibility nr.1 still works regardless of the intentions, we're going with that.

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:36 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:1)Because the fight with the 8th Angel is in Ha and Ha is supposed to suck in terms of being as generic as possible and massive lasting damage disappearing overnight is a very generic thing.

Are we really going with the "2.0 is bad on purpose" theory? I have never liked that idea, at all. Despite what people say, Anno's not a troll, he doesn't seem like the type of person to intentionally make a bad movie. Plus, if it was supposed to be bad, everyone would hate it, and that's just not true at all. I actually think it's a pretty good movie, hence why I'm putting this complaint in the "minor nitpicks" thread.

And since you called 2.0 "Ha", I have another nitpick, this time against a weird quirk of some of the fanbase. Namely, why do some people insist on calling the Rebuilds by their Japanese names? I mean, Anno chose a different English name on purpose, no one calls Instrumentality "Complementation" or the Angels "Apostles". It gets even weirder when some people switch from English to Japanese starting with 3.0. I mean, calling the Rebuilds "1.0, 2.0, Q, and Shin." Like, if you're going to refer to the movies by something else than their official English titles, at least be consistent! Nothing against you, just something that's been bugging me for a while.

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Postby EscapismIsBad » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:03 pm

Unit 00 colors :spout: :spout: :spout:
I know that they didn't want to make 00 blue because Mark 06 is already blue and it would confound the audiences (even both 00 and 06 throw a spear at some point) and the yellow 00 NTE design is nice, but it just doesn't seems right, it almost completely broke the nice contrast of Rei X Asuka being the opposite, it doesn't even combine with Rei design and plugsuit! Mark 09 is another beast though, its yellow design is actually very good because it clashes beautifully with the blue sky and red earth + a beautiful white angel jetpack. I know the NTE wants to make things differently from NGE and that's one of the reasons they changed the EVAs including 00, but contrary to the others EVA changes this is just a downgrade, disappointed. I want to read the 1.0 CRC but I can't find it online to know more why Anno changed 00 :(

Some people say 00 original colors was yellow, but it doesn't really look like it's true.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:10 pm

I swear somewhere in the Wiki https://wiki.evageeks.org/ it discusses how Eva-00's colors in NGE were planned to change similarly like how the New Movies did, but I can't find anything immediately.
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Postby EscapismIsBad » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:24 pm

Now that would be weird, even 00 in the proposal is blue. I'm totally clueless why they would change blue to yellow (maybe lack of resources?), would be nice to know more since it's a common question.
Last edited by EscapismIsBad on Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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When you feel sad remember that it's always epic Spinosaurus aegyptiacus time, you were born in the same planet as S. aegyptiacus, how cool is it?
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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:04 pm

Hum... If I had to pick two things, I would say that I did not enjoy how Asuka and Toji's roles were diminished in the story.
Let's start with Asuka. Well, in the original series, she was a protagonist (second only to Shinji). In the beginning of the it, I would say that Misato was more relevant as well, but Soryu quickly took her place as the main female protagonist. This is pretty easy to noticed in EoE (which is basically a movie about her relationship with Shinji).
Now, in the Rebuilds, I feel that she is playing a mere supporting role. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Shikinami! She is a great take on Asuka's character! I love how badass she is! The differences between she and Soryu are also pretty intriguing. I just think that she lacks the screen time to truly shine...
Toji's case is very similar. The weight of his character is severely damaged in the Rebuilds. I mean, in 2.0, I felt that he was a simple comic relief and nothing more. It's pretty different from the manga, for example. There, I literally cried when he died. Here, I was surprised to see how he simply disappeared from the narrative, instead.
It's funny because I feel like 1.0 was really setting the stage for him to play a big role in the sequel. But then, 2.0 came out and it just wasn't the case.
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Archer » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:32 pm

View Original PostEscapismIsBad wrote:Unit 00 colors :spout: :spout: :spout:
I know that they didn't want to make 00 blue because Mark 06 is already blue and it would confound the audiences (even both 00 and 06 throw a spear at some point) and the yellow 00 NTE design is nice, but it just doesn't seems right


Personally I like the NTE's yellow Unit-00 better than its NGE counterpart because it adds in more grey/white as a secondary color. But yeah, I do wish they kept the blue for its "fixed" version.

BernardoCairo wrote:Hum... If I had to pick two things, I would say that I did not enjoy how Asuka and Toji's roles were diminished in the story.


I dunno if this is really a "minor" nitpick, because making Asuka and Toji more important would turn 2.0 into a completely different movie.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:37 pm

I dunno if this is really a "minor" nitpick, because making Asuka and Toji more important would turn 2.0 into a completely different movie.

I think there are two ways of interpreting the words "minor nitpicking". It can be seen as some little detail of the product that bothers you for some reason (which is what you're talking about). Or it could be a general characteristic from said product that bothers you, but not so much. In my case, it's the latter. It bothers me, but it's not a "world breaking" element either. It's something small.
It's kinda like how I feel about an element of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. In that game you can hold two items at the same time while racing, unlike the Wii U version. Personally, I preferred the original way of handling it (because races were less chaotic). That's a major change to the gameplay, but it doesn't bother me that much. I mean, I wouldn't go out of my way to change it. I just accept it and move on, even though it's not my favorite thing in the world.
I don't know if this was a good example. But, whatever hahaha
When I wrote my post I already knew that we were talking about different types of "nitpicking". But, I felt that everything fell into the same hole, or something.
Last edited by BernardoCairo on Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Archer » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:02 pm

Haha, fair enough. Another one I'll throw in is the characters barely aging over the "14 year" timeskip. Maya goes from her early 20's to her mid 30's yet she looks pretty much identical in 3.0, Gendo's probably pushing 60 at this point yet he's not even greying (
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though his apparent cyborgization might have something to do with that
), Misato and Ritsuko pretty much look the same barring hair and outfit changes. Fuyutsuki is the only one who's noticeably more decrepit, and arguably even he should look a lot older than he does, since he's probably pushing 80 at this point. That's not even accounting for the stress they must be under living in a post-apocalyptic world for 14 years - just look at those before-after pics of US presidentI really think the adult characters should show more noticeable signs of aging, both to drive home the point that 14 years have passed and that things are different, while also making a greater contrast with the kids who still look exactly the same (barring any eyepatch-related shenanigans).

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:32 pm

Yeah, that was kind of dumb, although I can understand why they did it. They didn't want to spoil the fact that 14 years had passed in between movies. If they aged the characters normally, they'd have to choose between spoiling the time skip beforehand, or not showing any characters' faces in the trailers at all. So instead, they decided to just not have the characters visually age at all, justifying it with "the curse of the Evas" for the teenage characters. It does still bug me, though.

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Postby Archer » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:57 pm

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:They didn't want to spoil the fact that 14 years had passed in between movies.

I assumed it's more of a marketability thing because they didn't want the characters to look significantly different. I really just hope there's a specific narrative reason for the timeskip being 14 years and not, say, 5 (where it can be more easily handwaved that characters don't noticeably age).

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:36 pm

My only real nitpicks for the Rebuild as a whole are I feel 1.0 & 2.0 could use about an extra 5 minutes a piece of smaller scenes spliced throughout. There's a lot of small character stuff and world building elements that the Rebuilds are able to just sprint past because the audience has already seen NGE and can fill in the gaps.

I.E.
I wish in 1.0 they actually kept the scenes from Episode 3 of Shinji first going to his class and then the students finding out cause he foolishly reveals it, that he's an Evangelion pilot. The scene does a good job of introducing the audience to Kensuke, Toji and most importantly it succinctly tells us why Toji hates Eva pilots because his sister got hurt.

In 1.0 they cut directly from Misato telling him to "be proud" for what he's done right to Toji punching him.

It's a strong edit BUT I still feel there's too much basic character & world setting elements that get lost and the only reason they can make a cut that drastic is because they can assume the audience has already seen NGE and they'll just fill in what's missing. If a viewer sees 1.0 with zero previous history of NGE there's so many questions to ask like who are these kids? Does NERV not hide who are pilots? Kensuke sneaking in "Yo, his sis got hurt" doesn't cut it.

There's a few other small things like that in 1.0 & 2.0. Small character bits that get lost but are filled in because the audience has seen it in NGE.

I also feel 3.0 could use one more scene between Shinji and Kaworu that is completely removed from the plot. Just another simple scene of the two of them talking and their bond tightening.

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:46 am

Yeah, I agree. People here constantly say "Rebuilds are a separate continuity, you've got to ignore everything you saw in NGE in order to appreciate them." But despite that, a lot of stuff in the first two movies (and to a lesser degree in the third) doesn't really make sense without some of the context provided by the original show. Shinji's classmates getting completely shafted with only a few scenes each is the best example of that. You're supposed to care when Toji and Kensuke give Shinji words of encouragement in 1.0's climax, but unless you've seen their scenes in the original show it's kind of hard to care. I understand that the Rebuilds are much more focused on Shinji's character, but a lot of these issues could have been fixed with a longer runtime.

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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:25 am

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:And since you called 2.0 "Ha", I have another nitpick, this time against a weird quirk of some of the fanbase. Namely, why do some people insist on calling the Rebuilds by their Japanese names? I mean, Anno chose a different English name on purpose, no one calls Instrumentality "Complementation" or the Angels "Apostles". It gets even weirder when some people switch from English to Japanese starting with 3.0. I mean, calling the Rebuilds "1.0, 2.0, Q, and Shin." Like, if you're going to refer to the movies by something else than their official English titles, at least be consistent! Nothing against you, just something that's been bugging me for a while.


I was thinking about this comment of yours and I found it to be interesting. I agree with you that it is weird, but it doesn't bother me.
When it comes to linguistics, I like to believe that there is no right or wrong in relation to how humans communicate. If you're able to understand what the other person is saying, it's valid. It's a similar concept to "grammatical" and "ungrammatical" sentences, seen in the Generative Grammar theory.
You see, humans do not combine elements at random. Even if we are not obeying the rules given as the only possible ones, we are making use of our rationality to devise our sentences. Therefore, as long as the speaker is able to deliver his/her message to the listener efficiently, it is considered "grammatical".
An example of this would be the sentence "my dog is more fast". Considering the rules established by the Traditional Grammar this is simply wrong. But, if you take the Generative approach into account, this is "grammatical". You were able to understand me, right?
The same can be said for the way people refer to these movies. Whether they call them by their Japanese or American name, it doesn't matter. In fact, even if they mix them, that's fine. The important thing is that we are all able to understand each other.
The art of speaking is very subjective. The way we write (phonetic spelling) is only functional because Traditional Grammar was created. If this standardization did not exist, everything would be a giant mess. But, this does not mean that we should use it to define what's "right" or "wrong" everytime.
Maybe I got a little bit off track, but that's okay. I hope you could understand what I mean. I simplified these concepts to the absolute limit. So, perhaps, my explanation was too superficial (in other words, garbage hahaha).
By the way, the movie titles are cooler in English. Just saying... :emogendo:
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Re: Minor Nitpicks

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Postby Zusuchan » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:04 am

BusterMachine4 wrote:
Are we really going with the "2.0 is bad on purpose" theory? I have never liked that idea, at all.

You don't have to believe it, but it's the interpretation that works the best for me.

As for calling the Rebuilds by their Japanese names, I don't see a problem there, quite honestly. It's a lot easier to just call those films Jo, Ha, Q and Shin than to have to call them with their English names, in which case saying 1.01 and 1.11 automatically means discussing two different versions of the same film, which is why I'd rather use the simpler, shorter Japanese names that are vaguely about the film without forcing me to elaborate which version.

Edit: Gah, forgot to include this.

BernadoCairo wrote:
Hum... If I had to pick two things, I would say that I did not enjoy how Asuka and Toji's roles were diminished in the story.

I understand what you're saying and why you feel a bit miffed, but if it makes you feel any better, then essentially everyone's roles have been diminished due to the shorter timeframe and Shinji now being unequivocally the only main character of this new story (while NGE arguably had "supporting main characters" in the form of Misato, Asuka, Rei and Kaworu).

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:14 am

View Original PostBernardoCairo wrote:Let's start with Asuka.
This was a vigorous point of discussion back in the day -- check just about any Rebuild thread from 2009-12 with "Asuka" in the title, as well as the "Quality of Rebuilds" threads.

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:And since you called 2.0 "Ha", I have another nitpick, this time against a weird quirk of some of the fanbase. Namely, why do some people insist on calling the Rebuilds by their Japanese names?
I don't know about other people, but I've used "Jo", "Ha" and Q as blanket terms to mean "1.XX for any XX", "2.XX for any XX", "3.XXX for any XXX" rather than being misleadingly specific about the minor version number.
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Postby BernardoCairo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:31 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:This was a vigorous point of discussion back in the day -- check just about any Rebuild thread from 2009-12 with "Asuka" in the title, as well as the "Quality of Rebuilds" threads.

Yeah! Before joining in as a member, I was already reading some threads from that era. It wasn't just the Rebuilds that were criticized, though. The manga was also very controversial. There was even a discussion that Miss. Reichu had to block, unfortunately (I really wanted to give my feedback on it hahaha).
But you know what? Even though I'm a sucker for the manga, I agree with those people. In the end, it's just like I said in that one post I made on "Evangelion General and Chit-Chat". When adapting an already existing work to another media, you will always be missing out on some of the things that merged to create that product's identity. Both in Rebuilds and in the manga, the writers had way less time to develop their characters. So, it's understandable for them to cut corners. It's all about knowing how to gain and lose with the new tools that you, as a storyteller, have at hand.
Personally, I think that the manga did a better job overall (with the only exception being Asuka's character). But the Rebuilds are not over yet. So maybe 3.0 + 1.0 can change my mind...
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