Writers Help

[silvermoonlight]

This thread is for writers to share tips and tricks if your scenes are not flowing, and you want to ask other writers for help.

I put this up as a common thing I hear from writers is I'm struggling with action, adventure or romance scenes here you can post what's ever is giving you trouble and others can help you

As well as overcoming writers block.

[amitakartok]

Well, I have a dialogue scene I've been sitting for over half a year now. In it, the Eva kids' jobs as pilots is not (yet) public knowledge, but Kensuke saw them going into NERV one day (they were reporting in for the Israfel battle) and told Hikari. Now Hikari is confronting the pilots over it, concerned that they might be in trouble, and Asuka smoothly bullshits their way out of the interrogation by claiming that they have side jobs as interns to earn some cash outside school, which is technically true as per the exact wording of their contracts (which she explains to Kaworu afterwards when he doesn't make the connection himself).

I have no idea how to make the scene flow. Dialogue I can write, but those little pieces of narrative between the spoken lines about what the characters are doing in the background? Never got the hang of it. Only idea I have in that regard is Kaworu, standing behind Asuka, playing along with her bullshitting and her stealthily flashing a thumbs-up at him behind her back where the others can't see. He still asks for clarification afterwards, he just figured at the moment that playing along with her narrative was the best choice to get Hikari off their backs.



Before that, I also have a scene I'm struggling with where Asuka challenged Kaworu to hand-to-hand sparring in the living room to see how good/bad a fighter he is, but it ended up devolving into a loud argument because Kaworu is very blatantly pulling his punches. Asuka is supremely pissed because she's getting the impression that he's looking down on her out of sexism (ie. she's a girl so she must be weaker than him) while Kaworu is trying to explain that he's not squeamish about hitting her because she's a girl, but because he's really (as in, very much unnaturally) strong and could seriously (as in, crushed cheekbone at minimum and "needs closed-casket burial" at worst) hurt her if he accidentally hit too hard, which Asuka isn't buying because she thinks it's just male ego talking. She eventually tries to deck him by surprise, only to end up with an injured hand despite having decked him just fine the day before - which causes her to see a connection and theorize that the reason why he lags behind the girls when fighting in an Eva is because he's subconsciously trying to leverage a natural physical advantage his physical body has versus humans, but his Eva doesn't have versus Angels. In other words, he's getting his ass kicked because he's unused to being the underdog and needs to un-learn how to fight against squishy humans.

[Glor]

Thanks for making this thread, Silver. It will be a handy tool for users who aren't on the discord.

I have no idea how to make the scene flow. Dialogue I can write, but those little pieces of narrative between the spoken lines about what the characters are doing in the background? Never got the hang of it.

I'm not particularly good at this either, but what I've noticed is that there is usually something in the environment the character (or characters) is interacting with. I used to find it really difficult to fill in the blanks between dialogue (all I could think of was body language and other such movements) until I started giving the characters things to do, or see, or touch, or fumble with.

Are there any fiction books you're particularly fond of? I'll bet if you paid attention to what's going on between the dialogue, you'll glean something useful as well.

Before that, I also have a scene I'm struggling with where Asuka challenged Kaworu to hand-to-hand sparring

What's the struggle exactly? Like what are you having difficulty with? Describing the sparring part of it?

[Mr. Tines]

I used to find it really difficult to fill in the blanks between dialogue (all I could think of was body language and other such movements) until I started giving the characters things to do, or see, or touch, or fumble with.

Yes, engaging other senses than hearing (for the dialogue) is the key. Some of it will be body language "his eyes narrowed" sort of thing, but the rest of the world is doing its thing too. Of course there are some differences depending on how you're narrating -- objective observer, observer following the subjective experience of one character, first person -- as to what you can use as decoration. The further along that list you go, the more opportunity to describe distractions or motivations.

This doesn't mean you have to write a small paragraph between each character's speaking every time -- at times, quick repartee, without even much of a "he said, she said" is appropriate for a few exchanges, like in a cold open, or in a command/acknowledgement situation, before respectively describing the new scene, or describing the resulting actions. The pacing or mood of a scene is also important -- whether there's time for a languid camera pan, or if rapid-fire action is happening.

At he other extreme, you don't have to transcribe every word of what may be an extended conversation or speech -- once points have been made, it's reasonable to fall back on summary, especially if narrating in past tense.

[amitakartok]

Are there any fiction books you're particularly fond of?

Not really in a position to have had many and none of them were in English.

What's the struggle exactly? Like what are you having difficulty with? Describing the sparring part of it?

No, that was offscreen. The scene opens with the argument and pretty much all I have is just spoken lines, so the issue is the same as with the above.

Along with the possibility of Kaworu coming off sexist and victim-blaming to the audience if he flat-out said that he wouldn't hesitate to hurt a girl if she forced his hand, though he'd personally prefer if he didn't have to hit anyone. His intended portrayal is that of a person who considers altruism to be a universal moral imperative and open displays of abuse and general "might makes right" behavior, be they physical or verbal, is the fastest way to get on his bad side. He's kind and friendly, but he will defend himself and others against aggressors and will not shy away from smiting said aggressor with overwhelming force if there's no other way to make them stop.

Then again, I'm probably overthinking the negative reaction.

[Glor]

Yeah, not everyone is going to like the characters that you write, or the way you write them, and they don't have to. Trying to write a character so that they won't offend anyone doesn't make for honest writing.

[silvermoonlight]

Along with the possibility of Kaworu coming off sexist and victim-blaming to the audience if he flat-out said that he wouldn't hesitate to hurt a girl if she forced his hand, though he'd personally prefer if he didn't have to hit anyone. His intended portrayal is that of a person who considers altruism to be a universal moral imperative and open displays of abuse and general "might makes right" behavior, be they physical or verbal, is the fastest way to get on his bad side. He's kind and friendly, but he will defend himself and others against aggressors and will not shy away from smiting said aggressor with overwhelming force if there's no other way to make them stop.

Then again, I'm probably overthinking the negative reaction.

You should write what makes you happy and not write for others to appease them and I think its fine if a character starts off with a very negative trait, so long as they go through growth and change as the story progresses leading to a better outcome. In my view these issues only become a problem when the author refuses to address it, when readers bring up that the issue is really off-putting and are utterly ignored, or it becomes so bad it cripples the story's backbone as it's becomes everything and anything.

Your scene is more about gender misconceptions and so long as Kaworu in his head makes it clear that it's not about what Asuka thinks you should be fine.

[Blockio]

You should write what makes you happy and not write for others to appease them and I think its fine if a character starts off with a very negative trait, so long as they go through growth and change as the story progresses leading to a better outcome. I

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this so much. I myself barely read any fanfiction, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't read my own, either, if it were written by someone else. I just write because I enjoy doing it, that's the most important part

[amitakartok]

Well, one thing the fic definitely won't be accused of is being misogynistic. On the other hand, I'm still yet to figure out what to do with Mari's character because we simply don't know enough about her for me to pin down what she'd do with her life if she wasn't a pilot...

[The18°angel]

Well, one thing the fic definitely won't be accused of is being misogynistic. On the other hand, I'm still yet to figure out what to do with Mari's character because we simply don't know enough about her for me to pin down what she'd do with her life if she wasn't a pilot...

would she be an adrenaline junkie? Or maybe similar to Misato without anything that catches her attention, she would join the army because it gives her the opportunity to fly things and pilot combat aircraft. I think there are mechas aside from evas in your fic, right? participating in some kind of tournament, maybe she would enter it just for fun.

[amitakartok]

I think there are mechas aside from evas in your fic, right?

There are, actually, and I'm shocked someone here even read it. She isn't trained in piloting them, but Asuka is and actually is a junior tournament champion with it, hence how she's so good in Unit-02 after only one month's worth of familiarization with it.

For Mari, I did actually consider her getting her hands on a pre-production MP Eva as a hand-me-down, but my plans for said Eva have changed in the meantime (I'm now thinking of it being passed down to Kaworu instead, who passes Unit-01 down to Shinji in turn). Maybe she gets the first final MP model off the production line at the eleventh hour? I mean, NERV is already desperately looking for more pilots at the time, hence how Toji and a couple more teenage acquaintances of the pilots (but notably neither Hikari nor Kensuke) become pilots: it's an "all hands on deck" emergency situation, they have more Evas than trained and experienced pilots and no time to set up a formalized training regime, so they're throwing everyone who volunteers into one in the hopes of just one more body holding the line will make a difference.

And it's highly ironic that you mentioned Misato, as the only thing I have for Mari as an adult in her late twenties/early thirties is Mari/Toji basically being their generation's Misato/Kaji: an on/off relationship of Mari hesitating to commit because she's unsure about whether to settle down just yet while Toji takes their repeated breakups in stride and is patiently waiting on her to make up her mind one way or another.

One thought I did have for Mari is her actually being quite athletic and doing morning jogs, with Asuka eventually joining her on said jogs (as none of her fellow pilots are good jogging partners for her).

[The18°angel]

I think there are mechas aside from evas in your fic, right?

There are, actually, and I'm shocked someone here even read it. She isn't trained in piloting them, but Asuka is and actually is a junior tournament champion with it, hence how she's so good in Unit-02 after only one month's worth of familiarization with it.

For Mari, I did actually consider her getting her hands on a pre-production MP Eva as a hand-me-down, but my plans for said Eva have changed in the meantime (I'm now thinking of it being passed down to Kaworu instead, who passes Unit-01 down to Shinji in turn). Maybe she gets the first final MP model off the production line at the eleventh hour? I mean, NERV is already desperately looking for more pilots at the time, hence how Toji and a couple more teenage acquaintances of the pilots (but notably neither Hikari nor Kensuke) become pilots: it's an "all hands on deck" emergency situation, they have more Evas than trained and experienced pilots and no time to set up a formalized training regime, so they're throwing everyone who volunteers into one in the hopes of just one more body holding the line will make a difference.

And it's highly ironic that you mentioned Misato, as the only thing I have for Mari as an adult in her late twenties/early thirties is Mari/Toji basically being their generation's Misato/Kaji: an on/off relationship of Mari hesitating to commit because she's unsure about whether to settle down just yet while Toji takes their repeated breakups in stride and is patiently waiting on her to make up her mind one way or another.

One thought I did have for Mari is her actually being quite athletic and doing morning jogs, with Asuka eventually joining her on said jogs (as none of her fellow pilots are good jogging partners for her).

well I've been watching the tv tropes, space battles and sufficent velocity forums where they post ideas for Evangelion and I came across several of the texts you posted, I decided to give it a try and I liked the fic with several unexpected plot twists

by the way I have been trying to write a fic that happens a few years later after eva 3.0, I have had several ideas about how the plot is going to flow but I always leave it for later. the last wave of inspiration came from when i was watching the tv series 12 monkeys. more than all the confrontation between two the two main characters in the story.

SPOILER: Show

the scene is that an angry Shinji decides to tell a few truths to an angry Asuka after returning from a mission, where the order had been to withdraw because it was too risky but Shinji refused. in the end they manage to complete it but Misato and Asuka are upset with him. especially Misato when she threatened to use the DSS collar but Shinji only replied with "do it if you wish".

When Shinji is thrown into solitary isolation to punish him for insubordination, Asuka visits him and that's where the scene begins. where Shinji tells Asuka his point of view about what has happened since the near third impact, about what happened during the incident with the ninth angel and unit 03. and how without piloting the eva Asuka it would not be important and How Misato wasted her life fighting first because she wanted revenge against the angels for what happened to her father and then fighting in the war against nerv for having been deceived and having worked for the organization that was involved in causing the near third impact and yet being unable to do the right thing by activating the DSS collar when Unit 09 attacked the wunder in the past. how Kaji was a triple agent who had a good idea what nerv and seele's goals were but did nothing until it was too late.
How at the moment when unit 01 ran out of energy, the battle against the tenth angel had ended if it were not for the awakening of unit 01.
Shinji would end up telling her in a bitter way how the incident with the ninth angel that made her what she is now is not his fault, because Asuka decided to pilot the eva of her own free will and that the only thing she can blame him for It was from not having tried to rescue her, also adding that his orders had been to destroy the angel regardless of his life. and how those who were in the nerv command center did not refuse to comply with the order to use the dummy system but now they are inside wille as if that had never happened
And how the 14 years of resentment and pain are hypocrisy on her part because even if he was to blame for the near third impact he left on the world in the current state, they have spent all that time failing over and over again to stop nerv and that like when he arrived in tokyo 03 where he was called to pilot the eva, wille did the same again when Misato showed up after years without contact to ask him to pilot for them against nerv.
.

SPOILER: Show

for context after what happened in the movie and being rescued and taken to the wunder. there was an incident with the crew attempting to kill Shinji causing unit 01 to activate itself. after that Shinji was sent to a UN managed prison where he was to be rehabilitated and serve a sentence and unit 01 was removed from the wunder for being too dangerous (but without his organ S2). a few years later Shinji was released under the control of Kaji a time later Misato appeared to take him to be part of wille to be a pilot for the unit 01. And he was not happy with that.

[amitakartok]

several unexpected plot twists

I got plenty more of those.

One of the biggest ones concerns Leliel. And no, it's not the fact that she's a transdimensional achronal entity (which has been done before), it's WHY she's like that (which definitely hasn't).

[amitakartok]

A writing question not connected to any existing fic.

How would one make the audience/fandom take a femShinji fic seriously?

[silvermoonlight]

How would one make the audience/fandom take a femShinji fic seriously?

Write it seriously as in no jokes at the female Shinji's expense, have their friends treat it as a social norm if this refers to transgender and have the group be accepting of them if its gender flip make it that their gender is not an issue in terms of their ability to do things and pilot hence they're not treated any different from the male counterpart.

[Glor]

A writing question not connected to any existing fic.

How would one make the audience/fandom take a femShinji fic seriously?

Write a character and don't pander.

[amitakartok]

Write it seriously as in no jokes at the female Shinji's expense

I was more referring to the fact that based on what I've seen over the years, people consider the very idea to be a joke done only for the meme.

[Derantor]

Well, exactly what Glor said. You can not force people to not see it a a joke, but you can take the character seriously and treat her seriously. NGE itself begins by "meming" on previous Mecha shows, and there's a lot of superficially ridiculous stuff & tropes in the action arc. It all depends on how it's executed, really.

[Armoured-man]

I am still relatively new to writing FanFiction so I've got a question, is there anything specific to Evangelion that should be taken into account when writing an Evangelion fanfiction?.

[Glor]

Avoid fanon at all costs - these are things like Shinji is an amazing cook/cellist. Do your best to pay respect to the characters canon portrayals.