Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:33 pm

Sorry for starting a new thread but I couldn't find the one where people were discussing the -nami suffix implying past connection to the artificial evolution lab.
We know QRei worked for SEELE same with Kaworu. A lot of people also think Mari and Asuka are both part of the experiment. Reichu's theory had the lab being tied to SEELE. So why didn't Kaworu get the -nami suffix treatment? Is there a working theory? Is it reserved for females? Shinji not having it makes sense he "is the commander's son", but it's weird for Kaworu to be left out no?

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:49 pm

The easiest explanation, and if Reichu's theory is to be believed, is that Kaworu was simply not created in the Artificial Evolution lab.
It also makes sense from a "faction" perspective, since Kaworu is Seele's agent, while Gendo and Fuyutsuki who ran the lab are quite openly working against their goals throughout most of the movies
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
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The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:02 pm

:facepalm:

I'm dumb. It's still kind of weird though. If SEELE has a separate branch for clone/pilot making, then why would they rely on NERV for the pilots and EVA? Their scenario would be much better controlled that way :/

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:44 pm

Nah, you're good, NTE is really dense, easy to miss stuff like that.
I'd probably put that up to Gendo as well, that he took steps in advance to ensure that Nerv would be needed and Seele can't just do their own thing, whatever that actually means at the end of the day, probably some funky business with souls
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:39 am

:facepalm:

SEELE aren't the mastermind puppeteer they thought they were. In that case, the entire NTE plot could be prevented if SEELE was competent at running their own agenda :facepalm: . It's no longer if Shinji can redo/advance/alone, but rather SEELE :facepalm:

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Jäeger » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:50 am

1) Kaworu never had a surname from the beginning

2) Never crossed your mind that it's only an inside joke for the staff, same goes for choosing names from warships?
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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Lacissal » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:22 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:1) Kaworu never had a surname from the beginning


Kaworu's surname is still Nagisa on the Eva Q character sheets so is 'official' like Tentative Name: Rei Ayanami

As Nagisa means Sea-shore (with the kanji able to be read as something like 'dead messenger' as well) it doesn't really need to be changed- giving all the girls -nami/wave surnames gives his original name more resonance.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:50 am

Even non-canon characters are named after warships (Mana Kirishima), but like I said all characters named after warships are female.

Kaworu introduced himself with his full name in Q but asked Shinji to call him Kaworu. He retained his surname name from NGE and I assumed it was due to him appearing at the shore. I'm taking the -nami too literal :facepalm:

Thanks Lacissal

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Blockio » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:02 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:1) Kaworu never had a surname from the beginning

?????????????????????? His surname was, and always has been, Nagisa
2) Never crossed your mind that it's only an inside joke for the staff, same goes for choosing names from warships?

"nOtHiNg InEvA mEaNs AnYtHiNg" is an old, tired and thoroughly disproven meme. Names have significance, and Anno loves to use that significance to foreshadow plot points. Why else would normal Rei be written as "綾波" - in Kanji, that have a meaning attached to each symbol, whereas Rei Q, the one being described as a vessel and lacking a soul is written "アヤナミ" - in Katakana, that are just empty sounds without inherent meaning.
Kind of on the nose, isn't it?
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:52 am

View Original PostBlockio wrote:"nOtHiNg InEvA mEaNs AnYtHiNg" is an old, tired and thoroughly disproven meme. Names have significance, and Anno loves to use that significance to foreshadow plot points. Why else would normal Rei be written as "綾波" - in Kanji, that have a meaning attached to each symbol, whereas Rei Q, the one being described as a vessel and lacking a soul is written "アヤナミ" - in Katakana, that are just empty sounds without inherent meaning.
Kind of on the nose, isn't it?

Well, it's not that nothing in Eva means anything, of course the show has meaning. But a lot of things in Eva don't mean anything. Way too many people here think that Eva is some sort of Magic Eye poster that you have to analyze frame-by-frame in order to understand, when that's typically not the case. The best example I can think of is the religious symbolism. Fans have created this overly complex analysis of those symbols that takes into account Kabbalistic mythology, God's covenant in the New Testament, and the works of William Blake, when the actual creators of the show have literally admitted that they just included those symbols because they look cool. Stuff like that is the definition of over-analysis.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:15 pm

BusterMachine4 wrote:
when the actual creators of the show have literally admitted that they just included those symbols because they look cool.


It's also worth pointing out that in the same interview which is generally used to support the meaninglessness of all the religious symbolism, Tsurumaki also mentioned explicitly that the religious symbolism didn't have religious meaning, which is a pretty different thing from having no actual meaning at all. Of course, in reality there was probably a lot of mixture of both "this would look cool" and "ooh, this would look cool and be thematically relevant and/or interesting".

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:29 pm

Well, he literally said in the interview, "we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool." Nothing about it having any hidden meaning, and certainly nothing about having to read some ultra-obscure religious texts in order to understand it. I think some people here read way too much into it.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:38 pm

I agree that plenty of people read way too much into certain elements, but I do think there are genuine instances where the religious symbolism has meaning, just not in a religious context.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:55 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I agree that plenty of people read way too much into certain elements, but I do think there are genuine instances where the religious symbolism has meaning, just not in a religious context.

I mean, I know that. Like how the names of the first two human beings are Adam and Lilith, for example. I just don't feel like you have to have an insanely in-depth knowledge of the Sephirotic Tree of Life and the Four Zoas in order to understand Eva. It's stuff like that that puts me off the fan theories of people like Reichu. Those theories just feel like over-analysis and reading too much into things that were probably just intended for aesthetic value.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:59 pm

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:Well, it's not that nothing in Eva means anything, of course the show has meaning. But a lot of things in Eva don't mean anything.

Do they not mean anything (AKA, have zero-sum meaning), or do they mean nothing (contain meaning pertaining to nothingness)? Those are two completely different things.

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:26 pm

(if the names truly have no meaning, then there was no point for Asuka's name change, furthermore, for the change to fit a pattern. That's why I was wondering since Kaworu is an artificial human, why didn't his surname fit the pattern too. But as Lacissal pointed out, his name does fit the pattern)

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Akko » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:09 pm

I'm not going to hold my breath for the "All the pilots are reincarnations of Adams" theory but if it was true, Asuka's name change would make more sense
SPOILER: Show
that or there are Shikinami series and Makinami series out there :shrug:
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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Heaven Piercing Man » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:47 pm

(coming from a fence sitting mild looper)

Regarding Eva fanwank schools, if there's something that infuriates me more than fanatical loopers, it's the Bibleists and the Blakeists. At least the formers are mostly gone in TYOOL2020.
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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby Jäeger » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:06 pm

ONE EASY QUESTION

Before NTE, did the choice of naming the characters after warships had any second meaning?




View Original PostLacissal wrote:
View Original PostJäeger#904628 wrote:1) Kaworu never had a surname from the beginning


Kaworu's surname is still Nagisa on the Eva Q character sheets so is 'official' like Tentative Name: Rei Ayanami

As Nagisa means Sea-shore (with the kanji able to be read as something like 'dead messenger' as well) it doesn't really need to be changed- giving all the girls -nami/wave surnames gives his original name more resonance.


My god, I'm an idiot.

Well, it's not that nothing in Eva means anything, of course the show has meaning. But a lot of things in Eva don't mean anything. Way too many people here think that Eva is some sort of Magic Eye poster that you have to analyze frame-by-frame in order to understand, when that's typically not the case. The best example I can think of is the religious symbolism. Fans have created this overly complex analysis of those symbols that takes into account Kabbalistic mythology, God's covenant in the New Testament, and the works of William Blake, when the actual creators of the show have literally admitted that they just included those symbols because they look cool. Stuff like that is the definition of over-analysis.


And quite usual in anime. I believe than some eva "fans" need the show be more deep than it really is. For Japanese industry (manga/anime/videogames) religion is a common source of inspiration to make things cooler. The better don't play Xenogears.....They overstimate Evangelion to keep the idea that is an intellectual work. No,it isn't. Deep? Yeah, but you don't need to study everyframe and dialogue to find secrets. It's not as cryptic as they wish to be.

View Original PostAkko wrote:I'm not going to hold my breath for the "All the pilots are reincarnations of Adams" theory but if it was true, Asuka's name change would make more sense
SPOILER: Show
that or there are Shikinami series and Makinami series out there :shrug:


Nothing comes to mind lazier than "clones everywhere". Close to "time travel" or "nanomachines".
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by their side???

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Re: Is there a theory for why Kaworu didn't get a -nami suffix?

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Postby PenPenSakura » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:10 pm

No, ship naming never mattered before NTE. This doesn't negate that Asuka's name was deliberately changed and so was her hair color.

None of this would matter if they didn't modify Asuka's name. I don't know why you were compelled to think I was digging deeper into the names or biblical reference. I just read the theory and thought Kaworu was an inconsistency :???:

:facepalm: we all have personal pet theories. It doesn't mean I can't wonder how one works for a specific case. I for one enjoy thinking Shinji is actually Fuyutsuki's kid and Gendo is out to get his ultimate revenge on the world and Yui :devil: .


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