Christmas a pagan holiday?

[C.T.1290]

I did some online research recently and found out that our most beloved holiday has some pagan roots involved. I don’t think I will be able to look at our favorite holiday the same way again.

I mean, why do you think Christmas was celebrated to begin with? To Christians, wasn’t there some Christianity in that season in the first place? As for everyone else, it’s supposed to be a time of the year where people are willing to do nice things for each other and bringing joy to their kids and loved ones. What’s so pagan about that?

I’ve always loved Christmas for as long as I can remember, and I’m sure that everyone does too. As I got older, I found out that Christmas isn’t just about presents, it’s about kindness, showing gratitude, counting your blessings, remembering a great man who brought joy to our world whether you’re religious or not. I don’t know how all that can be related to paganism, that shouldn’t stop from us from celebrating Christmas, should it?

Anyway, whatever you choose to believe in, I think everyone deserves to have a happy holiday and celebrate it with their families.

[cyharding]

The thing is the early Christian church co-opted a lot of pagan traditions in its first few centuries in order to spread their messages more effectively. I recommend watching this History Channel documentary from the late 1990s (you know, back when the channel was good) can explain it better than I can. It is an hour long.

[silvermoonlight]

I hate to break this to you but Halloween is also a pagan Holiday which was called All Hallows' Eve as is Easter which is the Spring Equinox also all these holidays being formally pagan does not dimmish their meaning in any way and look at it this way if the pagans had not created them in the first place you wouldn't be celebrating them now.

[C.T.1290]

I hate to break this to you but Halloween is also a pagan Holiday which was called All Hallows' Eve as is Easter which is the Spring Equinox also all these holidays being formally pagan does not dimmish their meaning in any way and look at it this way if the pagans had not created them in the first place you wouldn't be celebrating them now.

Yeah, but I recently found out that a lot of Christians are against holidays with pagan roots and think they are doing the right thing by not celebrating them, and also thinking that the Bible holds all the answers and that it’s the one and only truth. I was raised in the Mormon church and they celebrate Christmas and Easter, and I quit going to church when I decided to become agnostic years ago. I think that agnostics are more open to things and more willing to broaden their horizons instead of just blindly following one religion and their narrow minded view on things. The Bible may not be right about everything. I choose to follow my own beliefs and my own path, not the one set before me, and I encourage people to do the same thing.

[Mr. Tines]

Everyone had a mid-winter festival, to celebrate that the days had stopped getting shorter. The Twelve Days of Christmas are the Roman feast of Saturnalia rebadged; Yule (as in Yule log) was the German version.

All Hallows' Eve is literally the night before All Hallows, Nov 1, the All Saints' Day; that one rebadges the Celtic festival of Samhain.

[UrsusArctos]

It helps that Emperor Aurelian helped partially rebadge Saturnalia and do a lot of the work for the early Christians. He made the cult of Sol Invictus, The Unconquered Sun, an official state cult and that cult celebrated December 25 as Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, The Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun. Given how easy it was for the Sol Invictus cult to merge with Christianity, December 25 turned into X-Mas.

Wiki link on this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#Legacy

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Christmas is still a pagan holiday in much of the United States today, with close ties to Lord Mammon as worshiped by corporate oligarchies!

[Justacrazyguy]

Even ignoring stuff like Christmas, nearly all art and architecture used by christians was almost directly lifted from the good old pagan romans.

I've always found it hilarious that people praise Jesus and company in almost exactly the same temples used for all the roman gods. Not at all surprising, considering it's the roman empire we have to thank for the efficient spread of christianity through Europe.
Like all religions, christianity drinks heavily from it's environment, so the fact that 90% of it is just stuff from other cults rebranded shouldn't surprise anybody.

Frankly I don't care, I'm an atheist but I still do the tree and the Nativity scene because they just look pretty. The precise origins of traditions shouldn't spoil whatever feelings you give them.

[silvermoonlight]

Even ignoring stuff like Christmas, nearly all art and architecture used by christians was almost directly lifted from the good old pagan romans.

I've always found it hilarious that people praise Jesus and company in almost exactly the same temples used for all the roman gods. Not at all surprising, considering it's the roman empire we have to thank for the efficient spread of christianity through Europe.
Like all religions, christianity drinks heavily from it's environment, so the fact that 90% of it is just stuff from other cults rebranded shouldn't surprise anybody..

I was gonna bring this up but you beat me to it, so I'll just say Christians in history are not the good guy you think they are, the Crusades is proof of that along with the burning the of the library of Alexandra and condemning anyone in later times who believed in science and logic and even putting them to death like Galileo. Also, the witch hunts of the medieval ages cost thousands of innocent lives of men, women and children and trails had no bases in any form of fact or science it was about persecuting minorities and black sheep who didn't fit in and none believers.

Add to this the demonizing of old pagan gods and making out their demons when gods like Pan were not demonic even Satan's pitchfork is in reality Poseidon's Trident which was not a demonic weapon it controlled the seas. So I suggest you look up history as well as mythology it might make for interesting reading.

[Mr. Tines]

^
This is the road to Serious Discussion, right here. Let's not go there, shall we?

[Blockio]

Honestly, I don't see the point of the debate??? Why the fuck does it matter what the origin of a holiday was literal centuries ago

[C.T.1290]

Honestly, I don't see the point of the debate??? Why the fuck does it matter what the origin of a holiday was literal centuries ago

Well, some Christians may not be accepting of that because of its roots. Especially some of the puritanical ones. Believing that the Bible is the answer to everything. And they’re certain that they’re right about these things.

[Justacrazyguy]

Well, some Christians may not be accepting of that because of its roots. Especially some of the puritanical ones. Believing that the Bible is the answer to everything. And they’re certain that they’re right about these things.

But why should it bother you? If they ignore the origins of the rituals that is their problem. Fundamentalists of all sorts will always exist, be it religious or otherwise. You don't have to concern yourself over them, unless you know some personally.

[C.T.1290]

But why should it bother you? If they ignore the origins of the rituals that is their problem. Fundamentalists of all sorts will always exist, be it religious or otherwise. You don't have to concern yourself over them, unless you know some personally.

Well, it’s just that somehow lead me to believe that everything I knew about Christmas turns out to be a lie. It’s a time of year where people do nice things for each other and observe peace on earth and good will towards men. And Christians believed that Christ was born on Christmas Eve, until someone pointed out that it’s not exactly so. And there are some out there who encourages others to not celebrate the holiday. I don’t know what’s becoming of it.

Christmas has always been my favorite holiday every since I was a child, and then some people turn it around saying that it’s not quite what it seems or what I believed. Before you know it, Christians will say that about everything in life is evil and judge everyone for it. That’s kind of the dilemma I’m having.

Edit: I guess in the end, Christmas means something to a lot of people. And as Hideaki Anno had once said, “we have to find our own answers”. No word was spoken truer than that.

[JoelcrNeto]

And Christians believed that Christ was born on Christmas Eve, until someone pointed out that it’s not exactly so. And there are some out there who encourages others to not celebrate the holiday. I don’t know what’s becoming of it.

Maybe I make things worse here, but there are no records of Jesus Christ's birth date in the Bible. The only thing that Christ wanted was to be remembered every day, and not on a specific date. So we don't know when he was born.

This explains a lot about the opinions divisions that Christmas should or not be celebrated.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I've heard that scholars say Jesus was born around February or March, but whatever. I know someone who's birthday was in March and we had to delay celebrations because of Covid. We haven't yet gotten back around to her birthday celebration, so...

[C.T.1290]

In case you’re wondering where all this came from, this is what started it:https://www.deviantart.com/dreamsofcolours/art/So-you-know-862832352

[robersora]

^
Sorry, if I'm being a Boomer right now, but this is a copy pasta of some sort? I don't get it.

[C.T.1290]

^
Sorry, if I'm being a Boomer right now, but this is a copy pasta of some sort? I don't get it.

Yeah, I just copied a link here.

Edit: Regardless of beliefs, people are free to celebrate it how they wish. If I’m not mistaken, there’s the winter festival in almost every country.

[ErgoProxy]

Sorry, if I'm being a Boomer right now, but this is a copy pasta of some sort?

You actually encouraged me to read it. And well, superficially the gal (?) is right, but her pasta is soaked with a spirit having little to nothing incommon with Holy Spirit. We have such a verb: pieklić się, derived from piekło (i.e. hell) and roughly meaning to rage helplessly - which is, according to Christian lore, everything Satan can do nowadays, because he already lost his case and he has no real power anymore. This verb fits here very well.

I don't get it.

And this makes it a good argument for raising children like the Silicon Valley magnates do. No internet, no smartphones, no computers in school, no bloody Scheissbook around, because all this bleeding edge tech turn child's brain and mind into chaff, making them incapable to work in a coherent way for a lifetime. Which can be good for us only as long as we're not in the same boat, so that we can keep control over tech managing the chaffed brains around the world.

What and how do they worship is completely irreleant, because this is merely content and we rule the algorithms. And you won't find a single passage in any ancient scripture about this kind of power. Beat this, the faithful ones.