How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:02 pm

Ok, so most anime titles are geared towards teenagers, so would be more natural for them to relate to some of the characters, or even find some of them attractive. But when some grown ups become invested in them, that’s when things to be a little weird to the average person.

You know all the waifus and shit people have been going on about? A lot of them happens to be underage girls. Yes, they’re fictional and not considered a major problem, but that still tends to turn some people off and makes them uncomfortable with that subject. And then there’s fan arts that takes the eichi factor to another level, so to speak, which makes some teenage characters look even more sexual than they were intended to be.

And some of us are usually more invested in the stories, which are undoubtedly more interesting than the adult oriented ones. Plus, they tend to take us back to our good old days. Old habits die hard.

Anyway, what’s your take on this whole deal?
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:57 am

Not all anime is teenage ecchi... I avoid that stuff like the plague, and there's a lot of it. I am also suitably offended by sexualised fanart. But I am also aware that my sensibilities are less easily offended by natural depictions of sexuality within a story than some people's are.

I'm also interested to see, in stories aimed at younger people, how changes in society and its expectations surrounding sex and gender (not just worldwide, but also specifically in Japan) are being depicted. Of course, the stuff I avoid is, I suspect also the least progressive in this regard.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:14 am

I recommend taking a look back 80's and early 90's as the first anime which came out before things like Evangelion was Ghost In the Shell, Akira, Legend of the over friend, Wicked City and Demon City all these were not aimed at kids they were aimed at the 18 and 15 audiences some are brutal bloody and hardcore, that was why they were a shock to western audiences on first landing as they weren't used to open nudity sex or violence where peoples guts got blown out as that had been in horror only at that point.

It's only in the decades that have followed different less violent types started to land in the west as series like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star Evangelion Sailor Moon Card Captor Sakura Digimon and Pokemon along with legendary girl Utena (Which along with Sailor moon carved a deep interest in LGBT themes in a huge way) Though these did have issues due to editing as their adult elements were sometimes cut or edited for child-friendly viewing on TV.

Now you get to the present and anime is fully main stream and there's something for everyone, be it adult, teen or child and you guys are so spoilt for choice unlike when I was a very young teen and stuff was on VHS and you had to share with your friends until the 2000's when DVD's landed and now you get blu rays and DVD sets and even if you stream there not cut and some older films that were cut on VHS and DVD like Wicked City are having re-releases with everything put back in.

We live in a real golden age of anime/manga enjoy and embrace it. ^_^

Personally I'm not interested in ecchi or Harem, but that's just me and I do get real tired of waifus wars but this because I feel people should like the characters they want without being bashed by others as everyone is different and different characters appeal to different people. I am not a fan a Lolicon but this is banned in my country you can get into real deep trouble just for owning material or art regarding it.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:09 am

While adults exploiting the sexuality of young teens in gross and damaging to everyone involved, I find it unhelpful to scrub clean all forms of teen sexuality presented in media. Teens need to know that it's not weird to have thee sorts of attractions at the stage in life, and presenting that in media has the potential to be a good way of attempting to normalize this kind of discussion in the wider culture. In that sense, I think adults should also be watching the stuff that addresses teenage sexuality. Parents especially need to be more comfortable with these types of discussions (here in America, at least). I assisted with child care duties at my local church for 10 straight years, and you won't believe the amount of 9-12 year olds who approached me with pubescent concerns and curiosities they didn't seem to feel comfortable asking their parents who were pastors at the church! Teens and even some younger children are ready to discuss certain aspects of sex way before parents are comfortable discussing it with them, so I think some form of normalization of that kind of discussion is needed via media and other cultural outlets.

At the same time, you don't want an anime to present 10-year-olds as sexual gods and goddesses. Yeah, they're all drawings at the end of the day, sure, but it's still just kinda gross and not helpful in any way to anyone watching, not even on a pure entertainment level. So, I guess at the end of the day it all comes down to the intent of the viewer and filmmaker when they approach this subjecting media. If ether party comes off as exploitative for subjects that young, well, that's the kind of thing that does turn more sensible people off towards anime.

As for the Waifus and the wars surrounding them, I always felt like those were all joking and light-hearted fun. But, I also get why it can feel creepy to the outsider. I tend to lean more towards using terms like "Best Girl" or "Best Boy" when discussing waifs and husbandos respectively, which kind of takes the sentiment outside of the sexual and into just the arena of general character discussion. But I've even gotten tired of those kinds of discussion lately, so I guess I don't have a dog in that fight anymore either way. I'm 33-years-old, and no longer find it fun discussing whether or not Asuka or Rei is "Best Girl." It's time to move onto real women. (Like Ritsuko and Misato! :lol: )

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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:23 am

Is there some unwritten rule that I have to consume only the media that is made for my age? Oh no! They showed the skin of a teenager! I, a 24 year old male, can only consume sexualized depictions of girls my age or older!

C'mon.

There's good anime and bad anime. I don't care if the target audience was 10 year old boys or lonely Housewives, all I care is if I enjoy it or not. Nadia, Princess Tutu, many Ghibli movies... all of it was made with kids in mind, but also with people of many other ages. One of my favourite anime, Fushigi Yuugi, was made with teenage girls as the target audience and I still like it.

As for anime that sexualizes teenagers, most of it is easily avoided if you want to, it's not like anime like To love ru or High School of the dead don't make it painfully obvious what they are about. There is sometimes fanservice in otherwise "serious" anime, but if what amounts to a couple of minutes of panties in hours long content is enough to turn you off I don't know what to say. I personally don't care, I don't see any difference in finding a 14 year old fictional character hot or a 24 year old one, especially when many times they are drawn the exact same way and may even have identical personalities.
Sometimes I want to see some stupid show that is just violence and tits.

If people want to sexualize young fictional characters, that's cool. If they don't want to, that's cool too, just don't fight each other over it.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Zusuchan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:26 pm

There is no problem with grown-ups watching anime. There is a problem with grown-ups watching oversexualized, near-pornographic, disgusting anime, but that's not something I consider a problem because what they're watching is anime, I consider it a problem because they're just feeding themselves their own petty desires in a cycle of cheap self-gratification that won't lead them to become better human beings, which in turn won't lead to the world being a better place. I believe that not rising above your own basest desires and needs will not only lead to a stunted existence for you, but also for society and therefore indirectly mankind as a whole. I consider teenagers, for that matter, viewing such anime to be a problem as well since they might very well be taking their first steps into the aforementioned cycle of self-gratification without even knowing it-and there's also a very high risk of this kind of stuff changing their views of ideal love and romantic relationships to something more focused on the physical side at the least, if not make them downright more perverted. Which isn't very good, as should be obvious.

I don't want to sound like I'm specifically bashing mainstream anime here, so I'll just point this out-generic anime's particular brand of sexualization is just another symptom of entertainment and its catering to people's basest wishes and desires, which is not something that's inherently exclusive to anime.

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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Blockio » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:50 pm

I wouldn't put it quite as harshly as Zusuchan, but I agree. The problem isn't adults watching anime, the problem are people projecting their fucked up fantasies on anime, and the shows catering to those people.
Even among the more horny shows out there, some (admittedly the exception, but they do exist-) even tackle pretty heavy topics far better than a lot of what "western" entertainment has produced in very big air quotes because that is a whole other can of worms
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Postby Lavinius » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:54 pm

It's an unspeakable and perverse crime, and shouldn't be tolerated in any decent society. Personally, I think that adults watching anime should be first subjected to a torture in which their legs are painfully compressed by devices called "boots". They should then be tortured with red-hot pincers; the eyes with which they watched it should be burned using sulphur; molten wax, molten lead, and boiling oil should be poured into their wounds. They should then be remanded to the royal executioner, Charles Henri Sanson, who will harness horses to their arms and legs to be dismembered. But their limbs will not separate easily: the officiants order will Sanson to cut their tendons, and once that is done the horses will be able to perform the dismemberment. Once they are dismembered, to the applause of the crowd, their reportedly still-living torso should be burnt at the stake. (Some accounts will say they died only when their last remaining arm was removed.) After their death, the remains of their corpse should be reduced to ashes and scattered in the wind. Their house should be razed, their brothers and sisters forced to change their names, and their father, wife, and daughter should all be banished from France.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:23 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I wouldn't put it quite as harshly as Zusuchan, but I agree. The problem isn't adults watching anime, the problem are people projecting their fucked up fantasies on anime, and the shows catering to those people.


I'm quoting Blockio but take this as a reply to Zusuchan as well.


But people project nonsense into all the anime and media they consume.

To put it in a simple way, lots of people like Cute girls do cute things anime. I find most of it boring nonsense, but there are some that I enjoy, and it goes from very wholesome stuff to fanservice parties.
Now, a couple of these shows go so far into the safe zone that they create that they even remove all male characters from the anime, I guess an attempt to remove threatening elements to the viewer. I find that quite twisted. Those would be the closest I can find to anime that cater to "fucked up fantasies".

But, I think most people that watch these anime aren't some mentally ill weirdos that can't interact with real people, that's a tiny minority. Do the anime attract those sort of people? Perhaps, but plenty more "normal" guys and girls enjoy those shows without being shaped in weird ways by them. They just enjoy those kinds of anime and that's it.

Zusuchan says that watching those sort of media won't lead them to being better human beings, but who says that they watch only that? Can't I see some shitty violent 80's OVA one day and go see a Ghibli movie the next? Who says that they are that influenced by these anime that they shape their view of the world by them? Why would I seek to become a better human being through the anime I watch? Shouldn't that be something that comes gradually, through all the media that I consume, good or bad?
When I was a teenager I watched plenty of silly harem anime with a bunch of skin being revealed by the most ridiculous scenarios but I didn't go "Gee, I guess that's how human interactions work, better go trip into some girls chest next time I'm at school!"

I don't think a tiny minority of people being negatively affected by certain sorts of anime should cast a shadow over said anime. I personally have become just tired at people dismissing and devaluing a persons taste because they happen to like anime they see as bad so they must also be a kind of weird people!
I went through a brief phase where I saw anime that had fanservice as "lesser" and only later realized I was avoiding shows I would like simply because they weren't deep or intelligent. Of course they weren't, most were not trying to be that at all.

I'm not saying you guys are doing that, but I can't avoid being a bit defensive when this topic comes up, sorry about that. I also apologize in advance if what I wrote is coming off as incoherent, I might be misrepresenting what you wrote.

I just think this is a thing were a few not perfectly healthy people are giving a depressingly bad reputation to mostly inoffensive anime.

---

Lavinius the things you just wrote reminds me that there is actually a very good manga about that Charles Henri Sanson guy. Innocent is the name.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Lavinius » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:50 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:Lavinius the things you just wrote reminds me that there is actually a very good manga about that Charles Henri Sanson guy. Innocent is the name.

Amazing. There really is a manga about every conceivable topic...
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Derantor » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:18 pm

I guess this argument is as old as humanity at this point. In my lifespan, it was heavy metal, then rap, than violent videogames, and now it's anime, apparently. All of these things are symptoms of the culture they were created in, not the reason the culture is the way it is. Go back just 150 years in human history, and you will find levels of violence in the western world that would simply be unthinkable now. Japanese comfort women were created by a highly "moral" society; people hacking off the hands of slaves in Belgian Congo did so without needing any anime or other entertainment media to prime them, and came from a similar repressive society by modern standards. If you want a modern example, type in "Female Genital Mutilation" into Google - it happens in countries which are very strict in what media are allowed to be shown. So, are there people out there who watch Moe or Netorare porn and decide "Hm, yeah, I'm gonna base my whole life around those morals!"? Sure - but those people had issues long before they ever came in contact with the media. They always existed and they always will. Instead of focusing on entertainment media, it might be a better idea to look at what's going on in the world and what drives those people to do the things they do.

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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:24 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:

Surely, you’re joking.

Please check your posts before posting, you could refer to anything, so I don't dare to "fix" it. Thank You. -robersora
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:49 am

The problem I've noticed is you can have something with truly awful content but it makes a point or it can be well written and leaves you thinking after you turn off your screen, but then you can have the Game of Thrones effect where the subject is terrible, certain subjects are in there to be edgy and cause controversy and push buttons not because it has a point to make but to get ratings so all media is not created equal it depends on its creators hands and how they use them. Like I'd rather have the violent awful that's thought-provoking and makes at point to the edgey boost rating, the problem is I am seeing more and more of the I'm being edgy to boost ratings across media and I really dislike it.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:30 am

Justacrazyguy, it's not so much that I believe that ecchi harem school anime or whatever influences people to "trip into a girl's chest" or anything like that. I just don't particularly think some anime a very healthy thing to watch, and that can be okay to an extent just so long as everyone participating realizes that it's basically media junk food. (I personally love watching the violent, gory horror anime Genocyber, for example. It's fun schlocky horror, and it reminds me of underground Italian cinema.) But adults watching naked sexy anime teenagers doing naked sexy anime teenage things can present a complication, as it were. Everyone approaches media differently, and there's no clear "one size fits all" answer, but basically some people watch that as an outlet for their destructive urges, while others use it to perpetuate their destructive urges. It's difficult to say who does what and into which category people fall (and there's certainly more categories than just these two argued on this topic). An adult watching certain shows can be a "sign" that he has interests that could translate into destructive/dangerous behavior, but it could also be a sign that s/he's channeling that destructive behavior into an ultimately harmless media interaction rather than taking the behavior out on other people. Who's to say? Now, while I would agree that adults funneling their destructive behavior into something ultimately harmless by watching naked sexy anime teens doing naked sexy anime teen things is certainly better than actually assaulting IRL teens/children, I also don't think indulging into ecchi stuff is particularly heathy either even if it's being done to channel one's destructive behavior. (And there's still the other category where media like this perpetuates destructive behavior in some people.) It doesn't deal with the underlying root of the behavioral issue. I think that's what other posters are referring to when hey say viewers "project" themselves into ecchi anime is dangerous or otherwise should be discouraged. If a grown adult is constantly horny for teens, to the point where they feel the need to "project" themselves into ecchi teen anime, then there's a problem that needs to be dealt with, even if it's just for the mental health of the viewer. (Back to the violent anime example, if I were watching Genocyber to funnel any violent tendencies I might have, then I probably need to see a therapist.)

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:28 pm

Justacrazyguy: My problem isn't with people watching anime or even sexual and violent anime. My problem lies in people watching anime that is nothing but cheap, simple entertainment, largely only watching those types of anime and thereby staying in a cycle of cheap self-gratification whereby they feed themselves their own fantasies continuously and never attempt to engage with higher works of culture, the kind that could be called "works of art" and that would actually be something new and original and intriguing and that have actual themes.

You're right that the majority of the people who view this kind of stuff aren't mentally ill weirdos incapable of actual interaction. But viewing this kind of stuff all the time speaks to a certain kind of inability to grow past your own desires. You can be completely normal and capable of interaction and a logical-acting dude, but you can also be consumed by personal childish fantasies and watching the works that exist only as modifiers of these fantasies helps only to further your belief and commitment to those fantasies-while instead you should arguably attempt to overgrow such things. And not being shaped in ways by the stuff you watch is impossible. Humans are empathetic creatures who are impacted by works of culture and therefore those works of culture will impact them, both in positive and negative ways. I remember my worldview becoming distinctly more violent after watching King Kong (the Peter Jackson version) at five years old. And this is true for everyone. It's more true when you're younger and more easily impressionable, yes, but what you watch and read will shape you even when you're 65. It doesn't stop, ever.

The effects of this kind of stuff may not be easily seeable overnight, but consider this-if people only watch those animes and read those books that value their personal fantasies/childish desires, then are they really going to go out there and actually do something for the world? Yes, many of those people donate to charity and so forth, but staying in a lovely, light, non-threatening cycle doesn't help anyone with coming up with an initiative to do something that they'd consider worthwhile. And if people stay in those cycles, then I for one don't think society is really going to develop in the way it needs to, as quickly as it needs to.

I agree with Derantor (and those next two paragraphs are a response to what you wrote as well) that this particular kind anime is just another symptom of their culture and putting all blame on them is pointless and false. But the question asked by OP is directly linked to anime. But yes, the same kind of fantasy perpetuation that I so dislike about some anime I can also see in many books, films, TV shows, video games, music etc. Not to mention the advent of social media and all that's done for this. And yes, the people who are really perverted, had issues before consuming a particular type of media that they found to be able to play to their desires. But the more popular and mainstream this media gets, the more not-that-perverted people there are going to be who will become more perverted-even if slightly-by watching stuff that plays to perversions. *cough harem loli cough*. At the end of the day, those anime are only a subsidiary of the global entertainment system, but they are at fault for this as well. The blame is mutual.

I also want to point out again that I am not, nor do I think I will ever be, a fan of morally and culturally repressive societies, which have always been far worse in terms of working and life quality than societies which actually addressed issues and weren't morally rigid. But there's a difference to a dark, sexual, violent work in which the darkness, violence and sexuality play an integral role in the story and a dark, sexual, violent work where the darkness, violence and sexuality play no role other than gory edgyness or some other artistically invalid sentiment that makes it clear it's just a part of some dumb/cheap entertainment scheme. There's a profound difference between A Serbian Movie and The End of Evangelion. Both are dark, violent and sexual, but with EoE, those qualities are necessary, they mean something. In ASM, they mean jack shit. Maybe not the best of examples, but I can't come upon anything else right now.

One final thing: people projecting stuff into media is very different from media actually engaging in projecting that stuff. For example, looking at NGE and coming away with "Oh man, Asuka sure is hot, I'd like to tap into that hot young nubile body!" is quite different from something like Rent a Girlfriend which actually engages in such discussion by its own. There's no need to project anything, because it's already there.

Also, what Freaky said.

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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:35 pm

I just don't see these anime as that dangerous and I'm once again going to say that I seriously doubt there are many people that watch only simple, cheap entertainment. I's also like to point out that anime( or whatever media you choose) being simple and generally below "works of art"(whatever that means) is just stupidly subjective and almost pointless to discuss. Freaky points out Genocyber as a junk food sort of anime but I'd actually disagree and say that in the larger world of violent 80/90's OVAs it's one of the better and more complex examples, with a honestly good story beneath the fleshy and bloody exterior. Even ignoring the story, Genocyber is worth watching just for it's excellent animation.
I fail to see the relation between watching these anime and "doing something for the world". Just feels like giving way too much value to the media you watch, it influences you, sure, but am I seriously to believe a person that watches garbage harem anime is at any danger of being less valuable to the world/society than some pretentious idiot that watches avant garde french films?


I don' disagree that there are people that "project" themselves too much into certain anime (although even using that word is weird, I assumed everyone projected themselves a little into the stuff they watch, isn't that the point? To be immersive?) but I just do not see these "cheap, junk food" anime as dangerous at all. I feel like the problematic people you mention would exist regardless of how cheap said anime or media is.

To put it simply, I think all or nearly all of the blame lies in the person and not on the anime/media. Same way that I don't blame cigarettes for some people being so stupid that they start smoking them.

Also, at the risk of sounding like a creep, I find people that indulge in ecchi or perverted anime far less concerning than people that flee or avoid them.
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Postby Lavinius » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:18 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Surely, you’re joking.

I'm not joking one quark about giving these vile pedophiles and high traitors what justice demands. And don't call me Shirley.
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:37 pm

I hate fanservice, that is why I stick with Evangelion.
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C.T.1290
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:32 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:I'm not joking one quark about giving these vile pedophiles and high traitors what justice demands. And don't call me Shirley.

So, you would kill adults for watching anime?
“This is the way”

Blockio
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Re: How do you feel about grown ups watching anime?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:48 pm

No, that's just Lav's brand of humor
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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