EVANGELION:3.333 discussion thread

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EVANGELION:3.333 discussion thread

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Postby Joseki » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:49 pm



Image

Coming to theaters January 8th 2021

---------------------------------------------------------------------- OLD OPEN POST

Many thanks to random Marifan-kun I found on my Twitter timeline



As many of us firstly noticed with AVANT1 and the teaser 2, Mari and Asuka got a new redesign in Shin. If Mari's design was explainable in universe, as Mari is back with Wille at the end of 3.0, Asuka's change of design made little to no sense as she was in the desert with Shinji and Rei. The two explainations we as a community gave we either "she changed plugsuit at the very beginning of Shin" or "the plugsuit was changed by the exposition to core material".

After reading Marifan-kun's Twitter however I propose a different explaination. khara is retconning the designs in 3.33 in a DC version to be released later.

Before dropping the AVANT1 bomb at Japan Expo in 2019, khara also showed a "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition - Story so far" montage edited by Hideaki Anno. It was also uploaded on YouTube at the beginning of this year (link). I personally tried to spot any difference from my BD, but I didn't find anything. Marifan-kun however had a much better eye than me and he did spot some differences: take a look at Asuka's plugsuit!

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This is the scene at the end of 3.33 right before Unit-02 goes out of energy when fighting Eva 13, the plugsuit is the new, red legs, black arms design!

I then went back to my BD and this is the very same frame how it was in 2013.

Image

Here she has purple legs and white arms, the same look she had for the rest of the movie. The accent on her chest is different too by the way.

[The difference in color tone is due to my italian BD of 3.33 having slightly warmer tones compared to the JPN version, a difference in master, this doesn't appear to have changed]

At this point I decided to look into Mari's plugsuit too, and I found some differences here too.

This is how she appears in "The story so far" video.

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And this how she appeared originally in 3.33

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The color of her finger is lighter in my BD and darker in "The story so far", the difference is not much, but considering my BD should be the warmer of the two the difference is actually bigger than it first look. More evidently, we can clearly see the shoulder area (left side of the image) is white in 3.33 while it's dark in "The story so far".

There are other subtle changes here too: take a look at her eye, in 3.33 they have a glossy look, while in "The story so far" they are more opaque. The glasses also got a new look, they are no longer completely transparent but there is a barely visible reflection at the bottom!

For reference, here are the new designs in Shin

SPOILER: Show
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And here the designs in 3.33

SPOILER: Show
Image

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Considering this evidences I now fully believe khara is planning a re-release of (at least) 3.33 featuring (at least) a Asuka-Mari redesign and some improved visual quality, as I don't see the point of introducing a continuity error that only gets fixed in a recap PR video.
Last edited by Joseki on Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Given how deliberate every choice is throughout animation especially, I find this change rather bizarre. Like, I've never known anyone to retcon suit upgrades in a franchise that has suits as iconic as Evangelion's plug suits. I don't even know what the logic behind this change would be, since I would assume they production team could have just referenced the Eva Q referencing materials when producing Shin Eva. Changing the suit design in this fashion seems like a more deliberate creative choice than it does a mistake needing retroactive correction.

I mean, Hell, we all have access to the 3.0 reference sheets at this point, seeing as how they were included in the damn Blu-ray releases in both Japan and the US. It's not Khara/Anno lost them or anything.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Zusuchan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:22 pm

This could be interesting and potentially true. We already had both 1.0 and 2.0 given refined, extended edits for their home release, so it makes a certain amount of sense that the same would hold true for 3.0 as well. Though this leads to me wondering, why didn't we already have this "DC" simply as 3.33? Maybe Anno's depression was too much for him to work substantially on Eva any longer, even if that simply meant a few new scenes/shots or maybe a "DC" would have revealed information that he thought could have ruined the experience of seeing Shin for the first time in some way? Or maybe he never even thought of it until far later?

Anyways, it's interesting what they're going to do here. Hopefully it'll be more substantial than just new plugsuit designs for Asuka and Mari and actually give us some new stuff too...or just fix the DSS Choker not appearing for a while, that's still a big mistake.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:This could be interesting and potentially true. We already had both 1.0 and 2.0 given refined, extended edits for their home release, so it makes a certain amount of sense that the same would hold true for 3.0 as well. Though this leads to me wondering, why didn't we already have this "DC" simply as 3.33? Maybe Anno's depression was too much for him to work substantially on Eva any longer, even if that simply meant a few new scenes/shots or maybe a "DC" would have revealed information that he thought could have ruined the experience of seeing Shin for the first time in some way? Or maybe he never even thought of it until far later?

I didn't think of that. There are new scenes in both 1.11 and 2.22 that were not in their respective theatrical editions. 3.33 got some animation fixes before the Blu-ray release (I wanna say that one of the changes made were Kaworu & Shinji's belts being fixed throughout the film, or something like that), though clearly some mistakes still slipped through the cracks (like the DSS Choker) and we never got any extended scenes out of the deal either.

This is very interesting.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Joseki » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:35 pm

Another interesting detail (thanks to Zeruss on Discord), this illustration is from the 2014 khara calendar

Image

Rei and Shinji have their end of Q plugsuit, while Asuka was in a red plugsuit. This was made by Tatsuya Kushida who is credited for

Neon Genesis Evangelion (TV) : Background Art (Studio Biho)
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Death & Rebirth (movie) : Background Art
Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (movie) : Background Art
Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone (movie) : Art Director
Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance (movie) : Art Director (Biho)
Evangelion: 3.0 You Can (Not) Redo (movie) : Art Director, Background Art
Japan Animator Expo (ONA) : Art Director (ep 7) [until You come to me]
Evangelion: 3.0+1.0: Thrice Upon A Time (movie) : Background Art (Deho Gallary)

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I didn't think of that. There are new scenes in both 1.11 and 2.22 that were not in their respective theatrical editions. 3.33 got some animation fixes before the Blu-ray release (I wanna say that one of the changes made were Kaworu & Shinji's belts being fixed throughout the film, or something like that), though clearly some mistakes still slipped through the cracks (like the DSS Choker) and we never got any extended scenes out of the deal either.


The DSS Choker mistake was actually fixed in the 3.33 version included in the EVA-EXTRA app Premium subscription.
Last edited by Joseki on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:36 pm

Image is broken.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Joseki » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:38 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Image is broken.


Fixed now

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Lavinius » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:38 pm

I hate this; the purple legs on the plugsuits are gorgeously stylish. Can r*build get any worse??
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Zusuchan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: DSS choker being fixed, it's still a mistake on the Blu-Ray/DVD so Khara would have some stake and reason to fix it on a potential new version of 3.33.

Another thing I came up with is that I think somebody mentioned the possibility of Khara releasing a huge new cut of the entire Rebuild series after Shin was released and if that's true, then it's entirely possible a 3.33 DC would be part of that "new cut". Which leads to the question of whether that means changes for 1.11 and 2.22 too. Just something to think about.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:43 pm

^^ Those purple/black/whatever legs were fine as hell. I wonder why they changed the suit design like that. I can't imagine it having a lot of narrative/tonal significance to the series as a whole. Maybe Anno just thought that Asuka's high-contrast suit was clashing too much against Shinji and Rei's more monotone dark suits in their walking scenes?

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Sharpe » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:45 pm

I really liked those new 3.0 plugsuits so this is kinda a shame, though a 3.33 DC sounds awesome. Another way to drive up the price of the inevitable Rebuild boxset.
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby robersora » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:32 pm

^
If there's going to be revamps, I'd recon they'll appear in the 4D screenings in December. And then, maybe on a 4K rerelease perfect edition box set of NTE.
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Mr. M » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm

Don't think it's a 3.33 DC, but as a new Rebuild boxset when Final is out. Bit I don't think they'll add too much, just minor changes, like color schemes or something like that.
3.33 is already a DC, if we think about it.
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:24 pm

Well, goddamn, you're probably right. If this is indeed a DC though, it begs the question: what else are they changing, or even adding? Not everyone knows that 3.33 is named that way because it has received specific improvements relative to its theatrical version, which was just 3.0. Can we expect merely visual improvements, or are they potentially even adding new scenes?

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:19 pm

That is most definitely the "new" plug suit on Asuka in that restored 3.0 shot. (I think the last shot of the recap is still the old colors though?)

I feel weird about this, it being a film I've seen countless times. But it's a minor thing in the end.

I'm more worried about the fact I might have to buy four instead of one bluray lol.

Also I do really like the new plug suit. I thought Asuka would retrieve it from her entry plug or something.
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby A Renegade Deserter » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:37 pm

You should already know my view on the changes on Asukas and Maris Plugsuits and with the White/Rainbow Plugsuits I‘ve accepted that they will get newer Plugsuits too. Because of 3.0+1.0 and 3.0 being meant to be together, at first I didn‘t thought that Asuka and Mari will get newer Plugsuits.
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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Stan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:59 pm

Let's see what they do with the 4D screenings, though if I was a betting man I'd wager that the 4D screenings will be the exact movies we already own on BDs and that the eventual Rebuild Boxset will be the one to include "DC changes" as a selling point. Anno did feel pretty burned out after 3.0 - maybe after his break working on Shin Godzilla he felt recharged and as part of the production of Evangelion Final he revisited the older films and made slight edits to create a greater consistency for the complete Rebuild experience and align the four films better? If so, I'd hope for new scenes and not just animation edits. If they started working on this final film in late 2016, it would be a four year production at this point, that's a long time for a film.

EDIT:
Moreover, if you watch the final few seconds of the official recap video for 2.22, you will notice that it includes that one scene of Asuka with an eye-patch that was only present in the post credit preview for Q at the end of 2.22 (and which never made it into Q since everything about that film changed). It's interesting because fans speculated for years that technically nothing in 3.0 contradicts the events showcased in the preview at the end of 2.22 - sooo technically all those events could have occurred in the timeskip and we just didn't see them. This is tinfoil hat levels of speculation right now, but the fact that the Asuka shot from that preview is used in this 2019 recap may suggest there will be a DC of the films.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:25 am

Using "Preview" footage in a 2.22 "Recap" video is a bold/confusing move on several fronts. Like, it's really difficult to recap a part of the narrative that was only promised and technically never viewed properly in the first place.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby Joseki » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:56 am

The preview footage used is rather innocuous, it's basically just Asuka doing a :3 with an eyepatch.

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Re: Asuka and Mari's new plugsuit may actually be hinting at "3.33 Director's Cut"

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Postby xolbor » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:10 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:The preview footage used is rather innocuous, it's basically just Asuka doing a :3 with an eyepatch.

Regardless, you'd have to admit its pretty cute.


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