Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby intermediateO » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:06 am

I was just wondering what theories people have noticed are still brought up now and again, even though information from outside the films, such as interviews or storyboards, seemingly goes against them.

The big one is obviously Sequel Theory (well, "Direct" Sequel Theory) because the bloodstain on the moon was shown in storyboards to be from Rebuild's Second Impact.

Some other things that have seemingly been deconfirmed though:

The the 3.0 time-skip and toneshift were always planned out.
-Seemingly not true since the original drafts of 2.0 always ended with the selfdustruction of Rei to destroy Zeruel ala ep 23, and this was only changed after the premiere of 1.0 when Yoji Enokido came on board to help give input on the 2.0 screenplay.

The Children are the Adams.
-Seemingly disproven since Toji was planned to be the test Pilot for Unit 3 and was only changed to Asuka later to give time to flesh out others instead of Toji. This causes a numbers discrepancy with the Lilith + 4 Adams we got and the 6 Children we would have had.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:36 am

Well the subversive nature of 3.0 could have been an idea since the beginning (or near it) even if the specifics it would be achieved through (timeskip) might not have been planned.
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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Derantor » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:10 am

It's not always helpful to try and disprove things this way - we still got one movie missing, and just because something wasn't planned from the beginning doesn't mean that it isn't the case now. Take the children for example: Where they always the Adams? Who knows. Right now, they might very well be, though, precisely because Toji was removed as a pilot. In the end, what's shown on screen supercedes whatever isn't shown or could have been.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:54 am

I'm also not exactly a fan of that method, since to put it bluntly, a lot of the interviews that are often used as evidence for or against something are poorly translated and taken out of context at best, and complete garbage at worst.
Especially the ADV VAs are brought up quite a lot, and most of what they say on the story is complete and utter bullshit riddled with self-projection and hearsay.

Even the interviews with Anno himself are often misleading, since basically all are only translated in part and as such missing context of the prior conversation, Anno was drunk and just messing around during most of them, with the interviewer also joking around.

A ridiculous amount of misconceptions have been spawned from these, "Rebuild was originally meant to be a 1:1 copy of NGE", "Anno forced Ogata to strangle Miyamura for the final scene", x member of staff wants to sexually abuse y character from the show, a metric fuckton of things shippers use as "undisputable proof" of their OTP, to only name a few.

The wiki has a nice guideline on the Tiers of Canonicity; while Anno is listed as second only to the series itself, for the reasons above I still say proceed with caution;
And rightfully at the very bottom is any production staff outside of Japan, by virtue of the sheer amount of bullshit that ADV staff has claimed
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby intermediateO » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:19 am

Jeez, you guys. (●´ε`●)
I pretty much agree with everything you're saying too, but I was just asking out of interest on this topic. There's a reason I used the word "seemingly" so many times. I also think that basically nothing is canon or disproven until explicitly expressed through the films themselves.

I've just been going through old materials and I thought it was interesting what conclusions you could draw from them. I just wanted to know if anybody else had noticed things like that. I thought it was an interesting topic...

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Derantor » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:32 am

I do wonder myself if something was disproven, but I can't recall anything off the top of my head. Eva is notorious for not stating things outright, and as Blockio said, interviews (even those with Anno) are often contradictory. I guess the only thing said in an interview that holds true regardless is the "you have to find your own meaning" line. So don't be discouraged! People just didn't know how you approach things.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:03 pm

View Original PostintermediateO wrote:Jeez, you guys. (●´ε`●)
I pretty much agree with everything you're saying too, but I was just asking out of interest on this topic. There's a reason I used the word "seemingly" so many times. I also think that basically nothing is canon or disproven until explicitly expressed through the films themselves.

Yeah, this wasn't going against you specifically in any way; just general frustration about the fanbase that has built up over the years.I do agree with Deranator, the o0nly thing that is definitely true is that you have to find the meaning for yourself
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby dzzthink » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:27 pm

I only joined evageeks recently but I can only imagine what crazy ideas the veterans may have discussed earlier on when NGE and rebuild were in their infancy. When I was watching eva for the first time, I wondered who Rei was in relation to Shinji and then it turned out she was a clone of his mom.

There have been many theories that have been discredited for NGE, mostly through descriptions in the original script:
1. Shinji trying to drown himself in the beginning of EoE.
2. Asuka at the end of EoE was a combination Misato, Rei and Asuka

Some are too outlandish to be true without needing much evidence:
1. Kaji was shot be Misato
2. Asuka is pregnant at the end of EoE
3. Keel is immortal
Last edited by dzzthink on Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:34 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote:Some are too outlandish to be true without needing much evidence:
1. Kaji was shot be Misato
2. Asuka is pregnant at the end of EoE

These two are actually among the few things that Anno himself has gone out of his way to state that they are not true
3. Keel is immortal

That one also isn't ture, simply because Keel's whole plan for Instrumentality is to become immortal; if he already was, there would be no need to do any of that
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby intermediateO » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:53 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote:1. Shinji trying to drown himself in the beginning of EoE.


I was trying to stick to Rebuild stuff, hence posting it in the Rebuild forum, but man oh dang do I still see this one a lot.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby dzzthink » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:58 pm

The main theory that Rebuild keeps churning over and over would be the sequel theory. I think it is interesting definitely, but no definite answers yet. There is are many discussions about this, with interpretations from the manga and the NGE. Every small remark by the characters can often be scrutinized and debated endlessly. I remember reading somewhere here that people questioned why Mari said that she liked the 'earlier Rei better' in 3.33 when she hardly knew Rei II. Someone suggested that this meant that she is older than she seemed and that she somehow knew of Rei I. But this could just a simple remark about how she was grateful Rei II pushed her away from the missile blast in 2.22. There are also links with Mari's special appearence in the manga and the time loop theory but that has been debunked by interviews with the author.
Last edited by dzzthink on Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby intermediateO » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:34 pm

View Original Postdzzthink wrote:The main theory that Rebuild keeps churning over and over would be the sequel theory. I think it is interesting definitely, but no definite answers yet. There is are many discussions about this, with interpretations from the manga and the NGE. Every small remarks by the characters can often be scrutinized and debated endlessly. I remember reading somewhere here that people questioned why Mari said that she liked the 'earlier Rei better' in 3.33 when she hardly knew Rei II. Someone suggested that this meant that she is older than she seemed and that she somehow knew of Rei I. But this could just a simple remark about how she was grateful Rei II pushed her away from the missile blast in 2.22. There are also links with Mari's special appearence in the manga and the time loop theory but that has been debunked by interviews with the author.


Yeah. I've always liked to think it was just her referencing the Rei that saved her in 2.0.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:04 pm

The sequel theory is in fact one that has been disproven by outside evidence well, and plenty of inside evidence as well - Anno (or maybe it was one of the producers, someone high up in the creation process) has gone on record to say that NTE is its own timeline that has nothing to do with NGE, the manga, or any other timeline.
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:09 am

Interesting. Do we have a source for this?
Never let the flame that is hope burn out, for despite the length of the night, the sunrise will always come
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby intermediateO » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:53 am

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Interesting. Do we have a source for this?


A source for what specifically?

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:22 am

I meant for Blockio's comment on Anno saying NTE is its own thing
Never let the flame that is hope burn out, for despite the length of the night, the sunrise will always come
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby dzzthink » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:29 am

I just dug this up:

"The new story takes place in the same period as the 1995 TV series, but the plot is completely different," producer Toshimichi Otsuki elaborates. "This isn't a remake or a quick fix. It's a totally new production."
— producer Toshimichi Otsuki (https://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by ... lion_Staff)

So if this is set in the same period as the TV series, according to the rules of time and space, Rebuild can not be a sequel :emogendo:.

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:24 pm

I had a different quote in mind when I made my comment, but the one DZZ posted is far more concise and less prone to misunderstanding
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby ShinjiStranglesAsuka » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:18 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I had a different quote in mind when I made my comment, but the one DZZ posted is far more concise and less prone to misunderstanding


Can you post your quote anyway?

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Re: Theories Disproven By Outside Evidence

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Postby Blockio » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:53 pm

Unfortunately not, I just remember that someone else high up on production staff said something to that effect as well
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ Joseki
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu


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