DUNE

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Postby EvaChero » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 pm

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I'm pretty sure the "muscles" thing is meant to just be a joke, people, not a serious indication of the film's themes (or lack thereof).


Watching the trailer I think the Z-man is correct....very pretty to look at I hope it carries the substance with it.
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Postby Zusuchan » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:37 pm

EvaChero wrote: Watching the trailer I think the Z-man is correct....very pretty to look at I hope it carries the substance with it.

"The Z-Man" is such a cool name I almost feel I should have named myself that instead of Zusuchan, hehe.

Agree re:substance-the film will absolutely be epic and awesome, but whether it'll be able to effectively tackle its themes (supposing that Villeneuve's themes are largely the same as those of Herbert) is still up in the air. But I'd wager it'll be considerably better than Lynch's movie anyway and better than most other films of the year.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:46 am

Having seen the trailer and Jason Momoa's portrayal of Duncan Idaho/ the line delivery now it really does come off as a joke and not as a "What the hell?" moment (but it's a Marvel-style dumb joke that really doesn't fit with the setting). Visually it's magnificent, but so was The Rise of Skywalker and we know how the latter movie turned out; the fact that even a director of David Lynch's caliber couldn't make a good movie out of Dune bodes ill.

Personally, I think Dune would work out better as a 10-13 episode TV series than a single movie, unless this is the first of a series of movies, Star Wars-style, covering the book over the course of a trilogy or quadrilogy.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:02 am

I think I saw somewhere that this is the first of two films.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:07 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Personally, I think Dune would work out better as a 10-13 episode TV series than a single movie, unless this is the first of a series of movies, Star Wars-style, covering the book over the course of a trilogy or quadrilogy.


I'm just kind of tired of the Marvel jokes I don't find half of them funny, and I'm bored of every movie copying the model because they think it's poplar instead of breaking the mould and doing their own thing.

SYFY channel, back when they were excellent before they went really lazy and bad, did do a Dune miniseries in 2000 which you can buy on blue ray and it's really good it's the truest version I've seen compared to the books though sadly they didn't do the whole book series. It's also really underrated and has somehow gotten lost and forgotten.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxDjnSnbNhw
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:20 am

Neither do I, I find such jokes annoying and substandard more often than not and like you said, they're being copied everywhere to the point that it's almost impossible to avoid them.

I remember hearing mixed reviews about the 2000 miniseries, although now that you mention it I should probably check it out.

The last really good show on SyFy was The Expanse before Amazon acquired it. Season 1 was nothing great and full of unnecessary drama, but Seasons 2 and 3 were much better. If they put the same production quality as Season 2 and 3 of The Expanse into a new Dune miniseries, I think it'd turn out well as long as SyFy didn't pull their usual habit of canceling a high-quality show in the middle of its run.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:57 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:SYFY channel, back when they were excellent before they went really lazy and bad, did do a Dune miniseries in 2000 which you can buy on blue ray and it's really good it's the truest version I've seen compared to the books though sadly they didn't do the whole book series.

It's widely considered the best adaptation of Dune yet. The original series "Frank Herbert's Dune" covers the first book, and the sequel series "Children of Dune" covers the second and third.

The reviews of the Blurays that I recall suggest that it's no improvement over the DVDs.
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Postby EvaChero » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:26 am

:D It's like mass production Eva's, too much of the same thing and it pecks away at your soul until creativity is dead (or its entrails lay scattered about you......)
I'm only a casual fan and I did enjoy the old movie with "Sting" in it (other than the creepy little sister) so I hope for the sake of the heavy duty fans that they
"get it right"
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Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:09 pm

View Original PostEvaChero wrote:I'm only a casual fan and I did enjoy the old movie with "Sting" in it (other than the creepy little sister)


I think the old 80's movie gets a bad rep as I think the voice-over idea they used worked really well, and it was trying really hard at the time despite its production hell. I think people forget 80's movie effects were time-consuming and very hard, you had to get it right in one take sometimes and if you didn't there was 5/6 hours to reset. So I think for effects alone the film deserves merit, as Dune is like LOTR in that you have to do a lot of groundwork to make a person feel like their part of that universe.
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Postby Natalie the Cat » Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:51 pm

I will defend Lynch's Dune to the day that I day. I wish there were more movies like it, even now. It's unabashedly weird and doesn't hold the audience's hand, nor talk down to it. It just is what it is without dissembling, which is what makes it a masterpiece even in a butchered form that doesn't reflect Lynch's original vision. The only thing I don't really like about it was the decision to replace the weirding way martial art concept with the little boxes and sound blasts, but I think that if Lynch thought that the Fremen kung fu fighting their way across Arrakis would look silly, he was probably right- at least as far as his vision of Arakkis goes, anyway. The Sardaukar look so ridiculous (yet in a way that fits everything else, so they don't stand out) that having people in skintight suits punching them probably would have been pretty off.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:34 am

View Original PostNatalie the Cat wrote:I think that if Lynch thought that the Fremen kung fu fighting their way across Arrakis would look silly, he was probably right- at least as far as his vision of Arakkis goes, anyway. The Sardaukar look so ridiculous (yet in a way that fits everything else, so they don't stand out) that having people in skintight suits punching them probably would have been pretty off.


I would agree with that as time frame wise the 70's kung fu fighting films were in decline, and he was probably very self-aware of this granted there was the karate kid series in 1984, but this was a one off and in realty the dying breaths of these kinds of films. As the kickboxing style was on the rise and that would take over the main stream in how characters battled on screen in things like Buffy and the Matrix and Blade.
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Postby Thuktun Flishithy » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:59 pm

Honestly my big sticking point for this new movie will be how they handle Paul. Dune is many things- a story of the follies of overestimating or misunderstanding our abilities, a parable of the dangers of basing your entire civilization on a single cornerstone that can be controlled or destroyed, an ecological tale, and so much more.

No adaptation can be all of these things, regardless of the media. To adapt is to translate, and to translate is to betray, as Ken Liu said. Something will be lost, some things will be gained. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you don't lose the most important stuff, and replace what is lost with something of good substance.

For me, the most important thing, whose loss would doom the film for me, is what sort of hero Paul is. Because Dune is most importantly a story of the dangers of charismatic leaders who take power not because they're the actual best and moral choice, but because they knew what to do or say to take power.

Paul is a false Messiah. He's a talented nobleman who takes advantage of the indigenous belief system -as well as chance of birth and a shitload of space LSD- and creates a cult of personality about himself in order to take vengeance and become Emperor. But this same role he has made for himself traps him just as his powers do, and sets him on a course he can't really avoid, which kills tens of billions of people. After all, he is the Kwisatz Haderach, who will lead the Fremen on a jihad, right?

That's where Lynch's Dune really fucks the dog. That Paul is portrayed as the hero he pretends to be, the actual Kwisatz Haderach who brings rain to Arrakis, and therefore is hollow for it. Hopefully, the Paul of this movie will hew closer to Herbert's vision, if his worried statement about a crusade coming means anything.


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