What do you think about time-loop, karma-loop and multiverse?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Shun
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What do you think about time-loop, karma-loop and multiverse?

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Postby Shun » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:50 am

Reading some threads about timeloop, 5 questions arose spontaneously in my mind and I thought I'd write them here.
Warning: the timeloop I am talking about is internal to NTE, and it not concern EoE (see question n ° 3). I ask you to stick to the main questions, without discussing the actual possibility of timeloop.

EDIT: let me explain the pattern
* Backward timeloop: travel backward in time and erased of the future. There are a loop at the time's level and at the karma's level. By "backward" I mean the rewinding of time.
For example the film Back to the future, the anime The girl who leapt through time, the novel Thrice upon a time. In these cases, constraints would be necessary to avoid the 3 main paradoxes, i.e. coherence, coexistence, knowledge. Imagine you missed an exam, in this case you go backward in time, reset the future, and do it again. The person wants to correct his mistakes from the beginning, thus changing his karma from the beginning.

SPOILER: Show
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* Forward karmaloop: in this case there is a "journey" forward in time with the karma. There is a loop at the karma's level, while the time is linear. By "forward" I mean that time passes normally.
I'm thinking, for example, about the ending of Sadamoto's manga, or the Samsara of Hinduism and Buddhism. In this case there aren't temporal paradoxes. Imagine you missed an exam, you can't go backward in time and do it again, but you can do it again at the next session. In this case the story of Shinji can also be repeated locally or globally in a cyclical way, e.g. locally in the sense that Shinji relives things with similar nuances (as in Reichu's deep lore, or in the Sadamoto's manga), globally in the sense that Shinji relives an almost identical story (for example NGE -> NTE, or NTE -> NTE). The person wants to correct his mistakes along the way, thus changing his karma along the way.

SPOILER: Show
Image


* Multiverse: in this case there are parallel universes, which could be internal to the NTE narrative, or also extend to other narrative products concerning Evangelion, e.g. NGE, manga, ANIMA, etc.
In this case we can think that every choice made by Shinji, and perhaps also by every other person and everything else, divides the universe into parallel stories. I'm talking about the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics. A film based on these things is Mr. Nobody.

QUESTIONS
1- Do you like the idea of backward timeloop? Do you think the timeloop trick can define interesting messages and reflections? If yes, explain why, if not, explain why.

2- If in Shin Eva there was really the backward timeloop and it was really very significant, would you like it regardless of your initial prejudice?

3- A timeloop involving NGE and EoE, would you like it?

4- Do you like the idea of forward karmaloop? Do you think the karmaloop escamotage can define interesting messages and reflections? If yes, explain why, if not, explain why.

5- Do you like the idea of multiverse? Do you think the multiverse trick can define interesting messages and reflections? If yes, explain why, if not, explain why.


It is a thread to share your opinions. Here are my answers:

1- I like the idea of ​​the backward timeloop, and I think it can be an interesting trick to hear Anno's opinion on a problem that perhaps happened to him during his depression. In the real world you can't go backward in time, you are forced to go forward in time, but if by "magic" you really had the possibility to go back in time why would you refuse this opportunity? For me an answer to this question would be very interesting.

2- I like the idea of ​​the backward timeloop, so my answer is yes. If, on the other hand, the backward timeloop will not be present in NTE, I hope that Anno will do something meaningful and interesting anyway.

3- I can't answer this question, I prefer NTE to be separate from EoE. However if Anno wants to do it and does it well, then I might as well accept this possibility. Let's say that I would prefer a less direct correlation, for example the idea of ​​parallel universes, where in one there is NGE, and in the other NTE.

4- I like the idea of ​​karmaloop, and I think it's interesting to talk about mistakes that Shinji, Anno and each of us can make and redo in our lives, day after day. In this case the focus is on learning to avoid making the same mistakes again, become responsible people. If I have made a mistake in the past, then I must work hard and learn not to make that mistake again in the future.

5- I also like the idea of ​​the multiverse, because like timeloop and karmaloop, it offers an interesting food for thought. First of all, parallel realities offer Shinji and the viewer the opportunity to reflect on the importance of their choices, as each of them leads to a different life. It is true that we are immersed in a complex world, and that a priori it is very difficult to know if the choice we make will be suitable for us or if we will have to strive and adapt to it, but this also pushes us to reflect on ourselves, on our awareness , and on our possibilities.
Secondly, the meeting of several Shinji could be interesting. What do I mean? Think if you could meet yourself, for example yourself younger, or older, or peers, not only would the meeting allow you to talk to yourself, but you could also help yourself and receive help from yourself. This trick is a metaphor for learning to know and help yourself.

The timeloop is important to answer the question of why rejecting the opportunity to change the past, karmaloop is important to learn not to make the same mistakes, the multiverse is important because it makes us reflect on the choices and the various paths of life. Actually, rather than choosing a single possibility, I would like Anno to be able to integrate them all together, to make Shin Eva a memorable film. On the other hand, NTE combines various elements of Anno's previous works, such as Gunbuster, Nadia, Karekano and of course NGE. So, NTE is a complex mix of things, references and I hope it is also a complex mix of messages, which is why I think it would be nice to integrate all the sci-fi tricks. Anno's intention since 2006 has been to make Evangelion a pillar of Japanese animation like Gundam, so I think that combining these possibilities allows Anno to create a more complex and better work.

Focus only about the main questions, no off-topic, please.
Last edited by Shun on Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:10 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: What do you think about backward timeloop?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:08 am

I'm not sure I really understand what a "backward timeloop" is supposed to be. :???: Perhaps define the terms you're using clearly to avoid ambiguity?
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Re: What do you think about time-loop, karma-loop and multiverse?

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Postby Shun » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:29 am

EDIT 21/08/2020
I expanded the opening post by adding two more questions, and I changed the thread title. :)
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