Weird Rei thoughts

[orcot]

in Episode 5 Shinji steps into Rei's appartment and things go from weird to weirder (yes it's that scene). Rei however has little response. But honnestly to little whist Rei calmly asks what he was doing there Shinji does seem to explain himself (he's there to give a new acces pass for Rei). Rei however ignores him and is surprised when the door does not open. So whilst Rei looks unaffected what if she has no idea how to respond and having her safe space violeted she simply departs to a other safe space (NERV) in a stupor she does that until she get's litteraly blocked by a giant door that wont open with her old security pass. Not in the mood that's strike 2 for Shinji and Rei only snaps back into reality when they are inside NERV.
PS giving that Rei is visably releived afther the test with unit 00 are okay she was probably allready stressed out in the shower, that explainend why Shinji did not hear any shower noices as a wet naked Rei was probably yust curled up in fetal position on the shower floor mentally preparing for what was to come (the activation test).
So Rei stressed out beyond responding or yust completly not caring abouth the situation



In episode 9 Asuka introduces herself to Rei (when she is reading a book).
Rei is rather short in her respond avoiding eye contact, and appeared rather blunt. That said was Rei really blunt?
She seemed to have been boxed in between the entire school trying to watch the event, with Asuka standing high above her.

And when Rei, asks why they should be friends Asuka replies because it's convenient it's only afther that remark that Rei respond that if she's order to she wil.

That said the book Rei is reading is clearly german, could it be that Rei was in her own way preparing to speak to Asuka but was put off by Asuka's presentation and reasoning? Any opinion?
Also the german book speaks of a parable and has genetics mixed in there as well at random, could this be a reference to Yui who was a student of Fuyutsuki who teached metaphysical biology? As this does not exist in real life this seems to be the sort of text some intern would pull together to symbolize the field?

Also Rei can read (probably also speaks) german

as a alternative to make the episode 5 idea less sad, Rei heird Shinji turned off the shower but Shinji entered before she could get dressed, doesn't really make sence why she didn't cover up with the towl but it's considerably less sad

[Reichu]

In the future, please edit your post to include any additional thoughts you might have, rather than posting twice in a row.

[orcot]

In the future, please edit your post to include any additional thoughts you might have, rather than posting twice in a row.

I don't believe I'm repeating my toughts here nor do I have any particulairy treat on how I think these scenes could be interpretet.

It's weird you do not hear any shower noises in episode 5, either the shower was running and Rei didn't know Shinji was there or she stopped the shower because she knew someone was there but then why not cover up. Stress and anxiety are big parts of evangelion so Rei having a little meltdown before her activation test doesn't seems that far fetched and makes the character more "human". It flows nicly with Ritsuko's and Misato's conversation on what actually happenend in the previous activation test where Ritsuko believe it was instability on the pilot's part. Also whilst Rei keeps her cool during the activation test and succeeds she shows extreme (for Rei) reactions of being relieved when the test is aborted. I invite you to rewatch the episode thinking this in mind. I believe it makes the scenes make more sence. If not feel free to discuss and diversify the threat.


Rei brushing off Asuka in episode 9, Could have had more to do with Asuka's attitude and large group off onlookers then Rei yust been Rei. Her freshning up her german ad the time, could have been a sign she was intending to have some sort of intereaction. Rei's to anti social to initiate the conversation but this could have been her way to prepare for it.

[Reichu]

orcot: You're missing the point completely.

You made two posts in a row. One of these posts was really short and you should have just edited the previous post to add that text instead. You are not being singled out; this has nothing to do with this specific thread. Not double-posting unless there is a valid reason is a forum-wide policy. Please read and understand the guidelines ("rules") if you have not; everyone is supposed to look them over when they sign up.

[orcot]

I apologize and will take note in the future

[Kendrix]

a) the ep 5 scene

Rei has been an EVA pilot since her creation & generally participates in a lot of experimenty stuff for which she has to be naked. She's naked & touched naked all the time in front of strangers.

This is why I don't get why ppl associate her casual attitude to nudity with being DTF, if anything it's the opposite - it's not special or intimate to her anymore, she probably associates it with unpleasant medical procedures more than anything fun. She'd prolly have a hard time getting into the right headspace for that - She also barely reacts to nekkid Shinji early in episode 6 and the nekkid experiment in ep 13 just stands there super casual while the other two are embarrassed.

Does she even think of the house as her "safe space"? She doesn't lock it. I doubt she had very much private anything in her life; Ever her body is a science project that she probably doesn't really view as her own (it's unclear how much of this is from her upbringing & how much from her origins) We see that she used to live in a lab before & arranged her house so as to resemble the lab, the way someone who lived by the sea as a kid might like the sea, so there is some level of ownership there. Though she does keep her stuff in a particular arrangement, though she does look a bit peeved when she comes home in ep 17 until Shinji explains that he only touched the trash on his impromptu cleaning spree; The one thing that visible bothers her is when Shinji put on the glasses; Once those are secured she just calmly puts on her clothes; The big whopper in the scene is that she isn't nearly as bothered as Shinji expects her to be, or about different things.
- though of course it's possible that she's more uncomfortable that she lets on; The Manga slightly goes with that but its take on the characters is always slightly shifted. At least she does definitely show human levels of pain & embarrassment in other situations, definitely some subliminal sadness that she's got nothing and isn't taken care of, though she also reinforces the minimalism herself, she doesn't go seek out anything else.

It's probably to an extent also that type 5 personality mechanism where since you don't hope to get anything, you stop expecting anything and try to make do with as little as possible.

I would agree that she was lowkey nervous about the test though I don't think she was much more than puzzled about Shinji. The lack of reaction of the path is more about how extra socializing isn't part of the job. She's asked him what he wants; Then she proceeds to the next stage of what she's supposed to do - she was supposed to go to the test anyways.Note how she later just snatches the card out of his hand without any thanks or further commentary (why would there be, if it's all just a business transaction?) and how she says "Farewell" at every turn...
Perhaps because she wouldn't know when she might kick the bucket in line of duty; Next time she speaks to that person it might be the next clone.
It certainly doesn't imply any hopes or expectations at this point.

b) The book itself
I doubt it has anything to do with Asuka; More with where SEELE is based or the flavor of the technobabble.
Perhaps that is simply the sort of book that Gendo would have lying around, something to do with his work - Yui's only relevant in the sense that Rei might've inherited some of those brains (deepening the mystery of how Shinji the ordinary highschool student got selected along with those 2 supergeniuses) Though one might speculate that she would be interested in the topic because of her origins.
What it does, mostly, is to suggest some inner life, some interest - though it's of course not your average highschool girl interest.

c) The book scene
This was for me personally one of the moments that really got me interested. I'd often be the one person sitting on the swing or on some bench during recess maybe listening to music or reading some scientific magazine & I had no opinions about most my classmates & difficulties with the idea that there's no socially accepted way to express neutrality - for the longest time I didn't gronk that saying you don't like someone is the same as saying you dislike them. At the same time a lot of the social life in this highschool pecking order is very shallow and a total animal hierarchy, like how unrelated wolves locked in the same cage will establish a pecking order, often based on shallow characteristics (though it's convenient to blame everything on just that like you're immune to monkey instincts.)
Asuka kinda reminded me of the mean girls that used to bully me - which I don't say to paint her as the devil but to stress how lifelike I found a whole lot of the dialogue. In the end her need to be an attention hog comes from unfulfilled inner needs. She wants attention but she can't be seen wanting it or acting like she wants it; But she had already decided that the other pilots are inferior and should be her sidekicks. She's not exactly receptive to for proper deep friendship here. At the same time if they played along and became her sidekicks, I'd be "convenient" in the sense that she wouldn't feel compelled to expend energy competing.

The only really positive relationship Asuka has (at least in the original series) is with Hikari, who has settled into that sidekick slot & as a result eventually gets to have a genuine, normal friendship where Asuka even gets a few moments of acting supportive.

Basically Asuka's offer is super duper insincere, but at the same time Rei doesn't get social interactions or how this might come of rude, but I don't think she was particularly receptive or secretly interested, either.

Look at how Asuka goes about introducing herself: She makes sure she's standing on an elevated position... she wants Rei to notice her, and when she doesn't immediately give her attention, she makes sure to block her light. Asuka probably finds it weird that anyone would ask for a reason to be friends (the more popularity the better, right? Or at least it's expected that you'd want & seek friends) at the same time, what sort of a reason is "because it's convenient"? Totally about pecking order not any sort of genuine interest. Wouldn't you need to get to know someone first before calling them your friend?
At the same time Rei probably doesn't stop to socialize with anyone (see above with the keycard situation) and though she welcomes & appreciates any care that comes her way, she probably has no conscious concept of wishing to actively change this at this point.

"If I'm ordered to I will" is certainly not something your typical middleschooler would answer (but as noted above, Rei spent all her life with this paramilitary background of sorts - she acts a lot like a soldier in those early episodes) - it's probably what starts cementing this idea of her as "robotic" in Asuka's perception - though what she means is pretty straightforward in that she'll cooperate with her as much as the job requires, but no further. It certainly shows a willingness to subordinate what should be her private life (who she's friends with) to the job, certainly a bit extreme but probably also why Kensuke describes her as a lot more mature than the rest of the class in ep 14, more of a "professional", stuff-is-on-the-line attitude than being absorbed with pecking order. There's still some preference implied like "I'll go as far as I have to but no further"

One wonders how she'd go about associating if ordered. She'd probably just sit there during various "friend outings" and say nothing & wait till its over.

In the end Touji & Kensuke comment that both are weird, so yeah...

[Derantor]

@Kendrix: (Just wanted to say that I like a lot of your recent posts. Just like with this post, you took the words out of my mouth more than once, but I didn't want to spam "Amen to this" replies everywhere.)

The only really positive relationship Asuka has (at least in the original series) is with Hikari, who has settled into that sidekick slot & as a result eventually gets to have a genuine, normal friendship where Asuka even gets a few moments of acting supportive.

Hikari is also special in that she isn't a competitor to begin with (Asuka doesn't know that she's a potential pilot), while still being of high standing. She's the class rep, so the most important pupil in class. That lifts Hikari above the unpopular girls, who Asuka would not interact with for obvious reasons, while it isolates her at the same time. Something Asuka can relate to. I wouldn't think that she sees Hikari as her equal to begin, but the friendship they develop does seem to be genuine. How much of that survives Asuka's downward spiral is questionable, as it becomes clear that Hikari has no clue what's actually going on with Asuka.

[UrsusArctos]

With Hikari and Asuka - one of the things pointed out is that during the Hikari-Asuka two girl conversation, both the girls are looking away from each other, with Hikari staring up at the ceiling as she speaks. That's similar to Shinji's bedtime conversation with Kaji where both of them are facing away from each other as they talk, and a lot different from the Shinji-Kaworu conversation where Kaworu and Shinji look at each other and Kaworu talks about being born to meet him. There's an A.T. Field between both Hikari and Asuka and neither of them are really able to connect with each other.

[orcot]

hey thax for responding

a) the ep 5 scene
I would agree that she was lowkey nervous about the test though I don't think she was much more than puzzled about Shinji. The lack of reaction of the path is more about how extra socializing isn't part of the job. She's asked him what he wants; Then she proceeds to the next stage of what she's supposed to do - she was supposed to go to the test anyways.Note how she later just snatches the card out of his hand without any thanks or further commentary (why would there be, if it's all just a business transaction?) and how she says "Farewell" at every turn...
Perhaps because she wouldn't know when she might kick the bucket in line of duty; Next time she speaks to that person it might be the next clone.
It certainly doesn't imply any hopes or expectations at this point.

I'm not entirely convinced. Afther Rei secures her glasses she leaves the appartment as soon as she is capable off. Whilst she does ask Nani (what?) She can't parse the answer even tough Shinji repeatedly tells her. I also agree that she snatches her card this shows sign of frustration/agression.

b) The book itself
I doubt it has anything to do with Asuka; More with where SEELE is based or the flavor of the technobabble.
Perhaps that is simply the sort of book that Gendo would have lying around, something to do with his work - Yui's only relevant in the sense that Rei might've inherited some of those brains (deepening the mystery of how Shinji the ordinary highschool student got selected along with those 2 supergeniuses) Though one might speculate that she would be interested in the topic because of her origins.
What it does, mostly, is to suggest some inner life, some interest - though it's of course not your average highschool girl interest.

Still Rei reading a german book at that time was suspecious, likewise Rei deciding to go swim when Asuka is practising her diving is suspecios and can indicate Rei is looking for some form of contact or is at least curious at this time.

c) The book scene
This was for me personally one of the moments that really got me interested. I'd often be the one person sitting on the swing or on some bench during recess maybe listening to music or reading some scientific magazine & I had no opinions about most my classmates & difficulties with the idea that there's no socially accepted way to express neutrality - for the longest time I didn't gronk that saying you don't like someone is the same as saying you dislike them. At the same time a lot of the social life in this highschool pecking order is very shallow and a total animal hierarchy, like how unrelated wolves locked in the same cage will establish a pecking order, often based on shallow characteristics (though it's convenient to blame everything on just that like you're immune to monkey instincts.)
Asuka kinda reminded me of the mean girls that used to bully me - which I don't say to paint her as the devil but to stress how lifelike I found a whole lot of the dialogue. In the end her need to be an attention hog comes from unfulfilled inner needs. She wants attention but she can't be seen wanting it or acting like she wants it; But she had already decided that the other pilots are inferior and should be her sidekicks. She's not exactly receptive to for proper deep friendship here. At the same time if they played along and became her sidekicks, I'd be "convenient" in the sense that she wouldn't feel compelled to expend energy competing.

With me their where no swings in middleschool, we where not allowed music on the playground or when approaching or departing school (on bikes). Neither was there a library on the school grounds. I lived on a language barrier that had a attitude that you allready had to be fluent in both languages. The sword of damocles being that if you succeed you can go to any high school you want, meaning you get to go home afther class, you fail you go to a internat meaning that for the next 4 years you stay at school during the week with a small room where you re not allowed food or drinks in your room and that's probably for the best because you don't have a toilet as well You do get a sink for some reason.
Back to topic We can't forget Asuka has allready graduated and probably could attent a university if she wanted to. You could wander what she is even doing there in the first place? We see Asuka doing a lot of effort to be honnest. To fit in and create some camaraderie.

The only really positive relationship Asuka has (at least in the original series) is with Hikari, who has settled into that sidekick slot & as a result eventually gets to have a genuine, normal friendship where Asuka even gets a few moments of acting supportive.

Basically Asuka's offer is super duper insincere, but at the same time Rei doesn't get social interactions or how this might come of rude, but I don't think she was particularly receptive or secretly interested, either.

You are right that Asuka is insecure but until leliel their was hope for some sort of friendship I think, afther that not really.

Look at how Asuka goes about introducing herself: She makes sure she's standing on an elevated position... she wants Rei to notice her, and when she doesn't immediately give her attention, she makes sure to block her light. Asuka probably finds it weird that anyone would ask for a reason to be friends (the more popularity the better, right? Or at least it's expected that you'd want & seek friends) at the same time, what sort of a reason is "because it's convenient"? Totally about pecking order not any sort of genuine interest. Wouldn't you need to get to know someone first before calling them your friend?
At the same time Rei probably doesn't stop to socialize with anyone (see above with the keycard situation) and though she welcomes & appreciates any care that comes her way, she probably has no conscious concept of wishing to actively change this at this point.

She does the same with Shinji climbing on top of Unit 02.
Her interaction with Rei is plain weird but she only does so against Rei, to be honnest it sort of resembles a conversation you would have to someone who has autism. You can boil the conversation down to: 1 her name (Rei),2 something Rei cares for (pilot of unit 00), 3 introduction her name 4 I do that to (I'm pilot of unit 02). 5 let's be friends it's convenient.
People fall over the term convenient a other person said what is she said let's have sex why because it's convenient. But this is a false analogy. Both Rei and Asuka can be considered soldiers having some sort of camaraderie will help both. Yes in the story this would mostly help Asuka but that is unclear from this point Asuka would perhaps be more mellow during the synchro test as it does not pit the pilots against each other (at least it couldn't get worse) and be more reseptive of Rei's help. On the other hand it is probably painful to have to fight along someone who has a deathwish and this could be a considerable drain on morale.
If Asuka would wanted to apear tough and cool and make Rei her underling it would have been funny if she tried a james bond like introduction, because it would be cringe AF whilst she think it looks cool it also would have Asuka a reason to nickname Rei Q (aftherall Rei is the one who helps in developing all the gadgets for our "hero" and Q is james bond weapon master)

"If I'm ordered to I will" is certainly not something your typical middleschooler would answer (but as noted above, Rei spent all her life with this paramilitary background of sorts - she acts a lot like a soldier in those early episodes) - it's probably what starts cementing this idea of her as "robotic" in Asuka's perception - though what she means is pretty straightforward in that she'll cooperate with her as much as the job requires, but no further. It certainly shows a willingness to subordinate what should be her private life (who she's friends with) to the job, certainly a bit extreme but probably also why Kensuke describes her as a lot more mature than the rest of the class in ep 14, more of a "professional", stuff-is-on-the-line attitude than being absorbed with pecking order. There's still some preference implied like "I'll go as far as I have to but no further"

Asuka pushes Rei out of her confort zone as the punching bag against matriel, (yes she also tries to take the lead whilst Rei is obviously better suited at the moment). Asuka invites Rei to 2 parties, Asuka attends the pilots school whilst she clearly doesn't have to. Asuka does try you know

One wonders how she'd go about associating if ordered. She'd probably just sit there during various "friend outings" and say nothing & wait till its over.
In the end Touji & Kensuke comment that both are weird, so yeah...

I would imagen Rei would enjoy the cinema it is well timed and you usualy sit still in the dark keep quit and eat, if not that long walks. Asuka would not enjoy these things and would probably be heaven and hell to go with like you enjoy seeing her and her energy and you enjoy seeing her leave again double with that energy.
if I was forced to arrange a afthernoon playdate for those 2. I would start with self defense class, followed with pizza at a arcade with some of the other class members followed with a escape game and perhaps a movie at the cinema. A extreme hobby both would like, would probably be gliding, eva's are carried around often by plane and being able to glide would be a bonus for the pilots (also you can start learning to glide when you are 14). Indoor Rock climbing seems like a fun hobby to give Asuka whatever she wants because she 's always climbing stuff whilst Rei doesn't seem interested. So if ordered to she will show up and prevents Asuka from falling down.

[Derantor]

@Orcot: Kendrix told you more or less exactly the same stuff I already told you in that other thread - that makes two people explaining to you what the most likely reason for the actions of both characters is. You are making zero sense, and don't grasp basic facts the show tells us.

Still Rei reading a german book at that time was suspecious, likewise Rei deciding to go swim when Asuka is practising her diving is suspecios and can indicate Rei is looking for some form of contact or is at least curious at this time.

No, it is not suspicious, it's a coincidence. Kendrix gave a possible reason already. It was not a deliberate act.
As for the swimming: Class 2a is on a trip to Okinawa - except three people. Who might these three people be? The pilots. They take their regular swimming class. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, indicates any form of curiosity towards her fellow pilots by Rei. She deliberately stays as far away from the other two as she can and does not even LOOK at them. She is just minding her own business. How does that indicate any interest? It doesn't, plain and simple.

As for Asuka being at school: She isn't there of her own volition. Misato ordered her to. That is NOT, I repeat for clarities sake, NOT an active effort by Asuka to form a connection to Rei or anybody else. As for the fitting in part: aaaaaaaaaaah .... I am to exhausted to go over everything again. Asuka does not want to fit in, she wants to be at the top of the hierarchy. Her whole thing is that she isn't part of the unwashed masses (who you supposed she wants to fit in with), she is special - the elite - an Eva pilot.

Her interaction with Rei is plain weird but she only does so against Rei, to be honnest it sort of resembles a conversation you would have to someone who has autism.

For the last time, no. Stop bringing in your deranged view of how you think people should talk to autistic people into this discussion. Hint: You DO NOT talk to autistic people that way, and even if you DID, Asuka had no way of knowing beforehand whether or not Rei has autism, which she HAS NOT. Kendrix and I both pointed out the most obvious, most sensible explanation for why Asuka talks the way she does already. I won't repeat it.

She does the same with Shinji climbing on top of Unit 02.

Yes - for exactly the same reason she does it with Rei. She is literally placing herself above him, because he is below her. Or are you supposing now that Shinji has autism as well and Asuka is doing everything in her power to talk to him in a way he can understand?

As a final note, it is entirely irrelevant for this discussion how you would arrange a playdate for those two. That belongs in fanfiction - same as your "it would have been funny if [insert wildly unlikely and completely nonsensical plotpoint here]" hypotheticals.

Edit: Also, even the moderating team told you to turn on your spellcheck - whatever you are doing, it is not sufficient. It would be nice if you could make an effort.

[Berserker]

Her interaction with Rei is plain weird but she only does so against Rei, to be honest it sort of resembles a conversation you would have to someone who has autism

Now where's this even coming from? This is just straight up nonsense. You clearly don't know what autism is. Suggestion for you:read every thread,articles you can find about Rei's character in depth,or watch everything again without judging any character seperately before knowing them properly. Also if you can,try getting some experience with people with autism. I've and i know what they are,how they feel,behave.
What Asuka does and how she behaves with Rei is acceptable as for a hormonal tsundere emotionally broken teen. Even Asuka won't behave like way you're saying to an autistic child. And Rei's nowhere near being an autistic child.

[orcot]

As for Asuka being at school: She isn't there of her own volition. Misato ordered her to. That is NOT, I repeat for clarities sake, NOT an active effort by Asuka to form a connection to Rei or anybody else. As for the fitting in part: aaaaaaaaaaah .... I am to exhausted to go over everything again. Asuka does not want to fit in, she wants to be at the top of the hierarchy. Her whole thing is that she isn't part of the unwashed masses (who you supposed she wants to fit in with), she is special - the elite - an Eva pilot.

When does Misato forces her to attend the school? If not can you give any other reason for her attending school besides trying to fit in?
(I vaguely remember Misato pushing Shinji to go back to school and he responds Asuka doesn't go either and Misato saying I'm more concerned about you)

NOT an active effort by Asuka to form a connection to Rei or anybody else.

Everything about Asuka is active effort she socializes with the entire class, to give an abstract example. Why does she do this?
She changes dinner locations to include a vegatarian option and then reinvites Rei to give a concrete example. Why does she do this?

she is special - the elite - an Eva pilot.

this still hold true

What Asuka does and how she behaves with Rei is acceptable as for a hormonal tsundere emotionally broken teen. Even Asuka won't behave like way you're saying to an autistic child. And Rei's nowhere near being an autistic child.

Okay... A near mute with suicidal tendencies?
Asuka does behave differently to Rei then towards the other children. Kaji does say to Shinji that he has a bit of a reputation I am betting Rei has a reputation as well. (also, perhaps this is a cultural thing. But did the teacher not come to your house before school to tell you who would be in your class and basically handed you a list of your future class mates and their phone numbers? I know I would look them all up on facebook if I was at school today)

No, it is not suspicious, it's a coincidence. Kendrix gave a possible reason already. It was not a deliberate act.

Your's Is far fetched.

As for the swimming: Class 2a is on a trip to Okinawa - except three people. Who might these three people be? The pilots. They take their regular swimming class.

The class swimming pool is outdoors the magma divers pool was indoor Misato probably arranged it to compensate for the missed voyage explaining why anybody would allow a laptop near a pool. Theirs nothing regular about it.

[Derantor]

When does Misato forces her to attend the school? If not can you give any other reason for her attending school besides trying to fit in?

Episode 10.

Code: Select all

Misato:
While the rest of your class is on the trip,
the two of you can study a little.
Or do you think I don't know about these?
You're greatly mistaken if you thought I wouldn't find out about these.
What you get on your tests at school is piped directly to me.

Asuka:
It's ridiculous. Who cares about grades?
I've got absolutely no interest in the old-fashioned grading system.

Misato:
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Try to adjust to Japanese school life.

Asuka:
No way!

Ask yourself: Asuka has a college degree; she doesn't give a fuck about her grades. Misato is her legal guardian. Why would Asuka attend school at all? Because somebody told her to do it.
I disagree with the premise that she tries to fit in - she's trying to be popular and be seen as a great idol, which is entirely different - so I won't give a reason for a premise I disagree with.

Everything about Asuka is active effort she socializes with the entire class, to give an abstract example. Why does she do this?
She changes dinner locations to include a vegatarian option and then reinvites Rei to give a concrete example. Why does she do this?

When does she do this? When she stomps on peoples love-letters? When she boasts in front of the other girls? Again, she is playing up her own status, and makes clear that she isn't interested in people as people, but as tools to prop up her own ego. Call that socializing if you will, but I wouldn't.
Yes, she changes dinner locations - and I never contested that. I said her attending school has nothing to do with Rei. Yes, she invites Rei to two parties. That could indeed be an effort to establish a relationship. It's also good for her image, but I won't assume that everything Asuka does has some ulterior motive. She was kind, for once.

Your's Is far fetched.

? What are you referring to? And more far fetched than your chain of reasoning? Let me remind you what your logic was: "Asuka read a dossier about Rei which said that Rei is autistic. She then decides to use special language when talking to her, and decides to approach her because it would be convenient to be friends with Rei. When she approaches her, she positions herself so that she can take a look at the book that Rei is reading (Comment: blocking the sunlight in the process, making it hard to read the letters from at least 3 meters away). Seeing that it is in German gives Asuka the confidence to approach Rei (Comment: see how this is causally inconsistent? She already made the decision to approach her before she got the confidence boost needed for her to decide to approach her), and then she makes her absolutely genuine offer of friendship (Comment: which includes smugly smirking at her, aggressively invading her private space, and making it clear that the only reason she approached her in the first place is because she is a fellow pilot, meaning that Asuka isn't interested in Rei as a person)." Now you add to this that Rei was deliberately reading a book in German because she was curious about Asuka, if I understand you correctly. Let me guess; Rei planned the whole thing in the hope that Asuka would see that the book is in German and approach her because Rei wants to form a connection but is autistic and doesn't know how?

Okay... A near mute with suicidal tendencies?

Exactly. Which has nothing to do with autism per se. As for the rest of that paragraph: I'll stresss it again; what you would do or how things were handled around you has literally nothing to do with how things are handled in Eva or what the characters in it do. And no, Asuka does not behave differently towards Rei than towards the other children; she pulls the exact same crap with Shinji, as you pointed out yourself, and at some point, she just ceases to interact with Rei other than to call her a stupid doll; much like she calls Shinji a stupid idiot.

The class swimming pool is outdoors the magma divers pool was indoor Misato probably arranged it to compensate for the missed voyage explaining why anybody would allow a laptop near a pool. Theirs nothing regular about it.

?????? The pupils in Eva all use their laptops all the time in school - just because your school didn't allow mp3-players or what not doesn't mean that every school has the same rules. Also, it is clearly not the Magma Diver pool, but it looks exactly like the rest of the highschool. Why can't there be two swimming pools in school? One for bad weather, one outdoors. This is all still tangential to the fact that Rei makes no effort at all to socialize with the other two, and Asuka is only interested in her diving and trying to get Shinji to react to her presence. But you are right; there is nothing regular about it. All but three people of the class are missing because they are on a trip to Okinawa. Those are highly irregular circumstances.

[orcot]

Ask yourself: Asuka has a college degree; she doesn't give a fuck about her grades. Misato is her legal guardian. Why would Asuka attend school at all? Because somebody told her to do it.

Nice find, I could nitpick on why go to high school when you could opt for university or an international school. But that's yust that nitpicking. I stand corrected.

When does she do this? When she stomps on peoples love-letters? When she boasts in front of the other girls? Again, she is playing up her own status, and makes clear that she isn't interested in people as people, but as tools to prop up her own ego. Call that socializing if you will, but I wouldn't.

Well none of the pilots socialize well for example, Rei only has a single interaction with someone who is neither a NERV employee or a pilot and that is the ramen salesman. (Rei neither talks with Kensuke or Hikari and only talks to Toji after she knows he is designated a pilot. Shinji does seem to interact somewhat and is probably the best out of the 3.
The love letters well it is weird and we see Toji and Kensuke sell pictures of her making it somewhat weirder. She does go on a date with someone, but she blows that off rather quickly.

What are you referring to? And more far fetched than your chain of reasoning? Let me remind you what your logic was: "Asuka read a dossier about Rei which said that Rei is autistic.

More like what Kaji said to Shinji, you are pretty famous in our business.(He says it in in the ship's canteen.) I suspect the same holds true for Rei.

She then decides to use special language when talking to her, and decides to approach her because it would be convenient to be friends with Rei.

They'r both military would changing friends out of convenience be replaced by simply squadmates help?

When she approaches her, she positions herself so that she can take a look at the book that Rei is reading (Comment: blocking the sunlight in the process, making it hard to read the letters from at least 3 meters away).

Japanese writing is written vertically, latin script is written horizontally. Yes you can definitly see that from 3 meters away. Asuka has problems reading Japanese letters so seeing it should draw her attention, yes.

Seeing that it is in German gives Asuka the confidence to approach Rei (Comment: see how this is causally inconsistent? She already made the decision to approach her before she got the confidence boost needed for her to decide to approach her), and then she makes her absolutely genuine offer of friendship (Comment: which includes smugly smirking at her, aggressively invading her private space, and making it clear that the only reason she approached her in the first place is because she is a fellow pilot, meaning that Asuka isn't interested in Rei as a person).

Does Asuka need to be interested in Rei as a person? Asuka straight out says she wants to be friends for convenience, They will guard each others back during fights and will be depended on each other, so maybe simply ignoring each other is not the best option. Would you agree that both of their lives would be better. The same way that you might have some form of arangement with co-workers other then simply ignoring them.

Now you add to this that Rei was deliberately reading a book in German because she was curious about Asuka, if I understand you correctly. Let me guess; Rei planned the whole thing in the hope that Asuka would see that the book is in German and approach her because Rei wants to form a connection but is autistic and doesn't know how?

Yes and no. She knew their was a new pilot in town and did not know how to interact with her. She did read the german book to prepare to better interact with her as she did not know how to form a connection. I'm also pretty sure Rei didn't like Asuka halfway her second sentence.

Asuka does not behave differently towards Rei than towards the other children; she pulls the exact same crap with Shinji, as you pointed out yourself, and at some point, she just ceases to interact with Rei other than to call her a stupid doll; much like she calls Shinji a stupid idiot

okay agree

The pupils in Eva all use their laptops all the time in school

Not in the pool area.

Why can't there be two swimming pools in school? One for bad weather, one outdoors. This is all still tangential to the fact that Rei makes no effort at all to socialize with the other two

Rei shows up, given Rei's nature that's often the best you can hope for.
Also the bathing suits were pretty casual and not the uniform ones they use at the school. Best guess it's a pool at NERV (explaining the table) but it could have been anywhere

[EvaUnitREM]

Hmm, interesting, maybe its because she sort of takes constant orders? Like their was no order to put a towel on, so she didnt have to do it in her mind.

[Zusuchan]

It's possible that a life lived just about entirely by following specific orders has changed Rei to the point she'll rarely do anything without them, but then again she is shown to do things such as making a mad suicide dash against Zeruel and blowing up Unit-00 to save Shinji that she wasn't ordered to do-not to mention Misato even attempting to stop her from detonating herself to which Rei simply responded "I can't". Rei isn't incapable of living without orders even in the beginning of the series either. The reasons for Rei distancing herself from Asuka have more to do with Rei's mental problems and the fact that Asuka presented herself in such a manner as to immediately make Rei dislike her.

orcot, even if Asuka and Rei being more friendly to each other would be more convenient, it's still not the reason Asuka approached Rei. Asuka'a main defining characteristic is that she needs to see herself as superior to everyone else and this had led to her constantly flaunting everything she's better at to everyone and Rei is no exception. Everything she did wasn't to see what book Rei was reading, it was to make Rei notice her while asserting her dominance at the same time. Rei is also barely interested in other people. She arguably has a rather large emotional connection to Shinji which leads to her developing independence and saying "no" to Gendo's plans in EoE, but even then she barely interacted with him more than was necessary. She's such a strange, ethereal human being and when she didn't go out of her way to engage in a deeper relationship with a person she obviously really cared for, there's no reason why she'd do that with an absolute stranger. She's most likely reading a German book because it's something that she's interested in and she just so happens to know German. Come on, her genetic structure is based on hyper-genius Yui Ikari, there's no reason for her not to know German.

[Derantor]

The love letters well it is weird and we see Toji and Kensuke sell pictures of her making it somewhat weirder. She does go on a date with someone, but she blows that off rather quickly.

It's not that weird; Asuka craves attention, but she'd never go out with any of the goons surrounding her. She blew off her date because he was boring - so not up to her standards.

They'r both military would changing friends out of convenience be replaced by simply squadmates help?

Sure it would help - but that's entirely besides the point. Neither of them uses that as motivation, and if they did, why wouldn't Asuka just say "Lets be squatmates!"? She's got no problems mincing words at all. Her intentions are different.

Reg. the book: You are missing my point. Casting a shadow on something when the sun is shining so brightly will make it impossible to read it; try it yourself. take a book, take it outside, place it three meters away in the shadow and see if you can make out anything. Not all Japanese text is written from top to bottom either. Also, what Zusuchan said.

Does Asuka need to be interested in Rei as a person?

No - but you keep insisting that she is, which is what I am arguing against. As for the would it be better: again, sure. But would-bes and could-bes are just that; what happened, happened, and the work doesn't change because we want something different to happen. That's what fanfiction is for.

She did read the german book to prepare to better interact with her as she did not know how to form a connection. [...] Rei shows up, given Rei's nature that's often the best you can hope for.

Exactly; showing the bare minimum of effort is what Rei does, and only when she's ordered to. Again, as Zusuchan said - Shinji is the person besides Gendo that Rei cares about. She does almost nothing to get closer to him; why would she do so much more for Asuka, a person she has never seen in her life?

You are right, it could be a pool at HQ; maybe they are on "casual" standby there. Anyway, none of them seems to be there by their own choice; Asuka is Scuba diving, Shinji is dooing his homework, Rei does what one is supposed to do, goes swimming and then leaves. They do not share in each others activities except briefly.

[orcot]

It's possible that a life lived just about entirely by following specific orders has changed Rei to the point she'll rarely do anything without them, but then again she is shown to do things such as making a mad suicide dash against Zeruel and blowing up Unit-00 to save Shinji that she wasn't ordered to do-not to

Rei did not know Shinji would return and she used that nuke to try and save humanity (by defeating zeruel). The sad fact was had Rei not been suicidal, she would have used the spear of longinus and it would have probably killed Zeruel.
Similarly Rei didn't really need to pilot unit 00 against armisael, she/they could have used the dummy plug and focussed on instrumentality and further R&D. But she did and it ended up killing her.

Rei isn't incapable of living without orders even in the beginning of the series either. The reasons for Rei distancing herself from Asuka have more to do with Rei's mental problems and the fact that Asuka presented herself in such a manner as to immediately make Rei dislike her.

All the pilots have personality problems, that said Rei really dislikes Asuka.

Asuka'a main defining characteristic is that she needs to see herself as superior to everyone else and this had led to her constantly flaunting everything she's better at to everyone and Rei is no exception.

She is a tsundere true

Everything she did wasn't to see what book Rei was reading, it was to make Rei notice her while asserting her dominance at the same time.

Well, like most eva scenes theirs more then one interpretation, Rei didn't need to read a book she could have been staring at a (duck)pont in a rodin's thinker pose. Striking as he sits above the gates of hell and is the representation of a poem (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poems_(Coates_1916)/Volume_I/The_%22Penseur%22). But no she was reading a book and not some generic book she was reading a German book containing a parable and genetic information.

Rei is also barely interested in other people. She arguably has a rather large emotional connection to Shinji which leads to her developing independence and saying "no" to Gendo's plans in EoE, but even then she barely interacted with him more than was necessary.

As lilith among the lilim she cares more about humanity then humans in particulairy, you can't forget she is not human/lilim.

She's most likely reading a German book because it's something that she's interested in and she just so happens to know German. Come on, her genetic structure is based on hyper-genius Yui Ikari, there's no reason for her not to know German.

Your interpretation is not more wrong then mine. You yust ignore a part of the scene. That is okay you spent more attention to the social aspect

Reg. the book: You are missing my point. Casting a shadow on something when the sun is shining so brightly will make it impossible to read it; try it yourself

I'm not suggesting you do not read, but theirs a reason you usually see people read under a tree and if they do in the bright sun people usually use sunglasses. Point being it's probably easier to read in the shade, especialy with Rei's (red) eyes. Paper can be very bright.

[Derantor]

But no she was reading a book and not some generic book she was reading a German book containing a parable and genetic information.

Which supports your theory that she was preparing for Asuka specifically ... how? If you want to know about a countries culture to better get along with somebody coming from that country, do you read a genetics book?

Your interpretation is not more wrong then mine. You yust ignore a part of the scene. That is okay you spent more attention to the social aspect

Which part of the scene? As far as I can see, we aren't excluding anything but your hypothetical could-have-beens, nothing of what is actually on screen, and you ignore a lot of the context and characterization that is plainly spelled out on screen.

I'm not suggesting you do not read, but theirs a reason you usually see people read under a tree and if they do in the bright sun people usually use sunglasses. Point being it's probably easier to read in the shade, especialy with Rei's (red) eyes. Paper can be very bright.

What's that got to do with anything? Rei is sitting in open sunlight while she is reading, and moving the book back again into sunlight, suggesting that she can't read the book when there's a shadow cast on it - so why would Asuka, standing away at least three meters, be able to?

[Kendrix]

I'm not entirely convinced. Afther Rei secures her glasses she leaves the appartment as soon as she is capable off. Whilst she does ask Nani (what?) She can't parse the answer even tough Shinji repeatedly tells her. I also agree that she snatches her card this shows sign of frustration/agression.

She was scheduled for an experiment anyways tho, she's not leaving because of Shinji (she was probably showering to be ready for the experiment to begin with); And as for Shinji he's stammering throughout the whole thing & not really getting the point across; He wasn't making much sense.
Knowing that telling you about the card usually means he probably brought it would also be one of those non-obvious social convention things;

To some extent it's up to interpretation since we can't 100% see what's going on in her head, but I still think the scene is clearly framed in such a way that what's supposed to jump out is precisely her relative indifference to what others would consider privacy (both to being seen naked & to someone coming into her apartment) & how she does not seek out any socializing - this is [url="https://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_04_NextEp_Previews]how the trailer in ep 4 describes her"[/url], or how Touji & Kensuke characterize her when Shinji asks around her.

The [url="https://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_05_Scene_05"]script[/url], too, describes her as only "a little surprised" when she notices Shinji, and as "perfectly calm" and "acting like nothing happened" when she continues to get dressed - or even when Shinji's still right on top of her! As far as her reactions are described, they're mostly concerned with the glasses - being irritated when Shinji has them, looking at them fondly once they're back in the box.

Also that wasn't what I meant about the card snatching at all - it's not aggression or frustration but indifference & being businesslike & impersonal about it. I guess it might seem like that if you're from a more extroverted culture (like, say, India or the USA) where over the top (by, say, European standards) cheerfulness is the norm and the lack of it is usually deliberate rudeness. Though she probably wouldn't come off as polite in any part of the world; Still, to be deliberately rude in such a subtle way you would need to understand the social conventions in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't even get why it's a diss. (or why being overly familiar would be a diss in a more formal sort of culture, for that matter)

The point being made is in her non-reaction.

For the same reason I really don't think there was any "subtle curiosity about Asuka" anywhere, like, why? That she exists nearby would not be sufficient reason for Rei.
Shinji gets some interest cause he's related to Gendo and because the first thing he does is pick her off the floor and volunteer to fight so she doesn't have to; and even then it wasn't more than occasionally looking in his direction until he spent 2 episodes trying & failing to establish a rapport with her & then save her butt; Before that point it was all strictly professional or due to his being Gendo's kid.
The closest Rei comes to showing interest in someone without the other person making a big effort is waaay later in eps 17/18 when she interacts with Touji a bit - If things had not gone straight to hell right then, maybe she would have become the fourth member of the "baka trio" over time


Half the magibabble in the show is in German, it's just a frachise-wise flavor thing like making a romantic movie full of gratuitous french or how martial arts movies have lots of Chinese aesthetics in them; See the organization names and all. It would be one thing if she were reading a book titled "Deutsch für Dummies", but a high-level biology textbook seems an odd choice... and instead would be hard to comprehend if you didn't already speak the language at a high level.
Are the English books in Rebuild an indication that she wants to get to know Mari?

Same with the swimming - the much more noteworthy thing here, to me, is that she has a swimsuit separate from her school uniform one. We've seen her in the uniform one before; She usually wears her uniform everywhere. That she even has a private swimsuit would suggest that she does this regularly as a hobby. Perthaps it started when someone at nerve told her to exercise for training.
That Shinji & Asuka happen to be there that particular day would be irrelevant; She's certainly not interacting with them in any way, and dried herself off and left while they're still there.

She does the same with Shinji climbing on top of Unit 02.

And it has the same intention & effect there.
She's literally asserting her superiority right away ("You are just the pilot of the test model")
Note that Shinji's first impression is super negative; He only gets on friendly terms with her after the double training which Misato orders precisely cause they were getting on like cats and dogs.
Shinji only starts getting sympathetic to her after she has that moment where Misato considers having someone else pilot EVa 02 and she takes it badly; A moment where she is precisely not superior but vulnerable & human & thus approachable

Back to topic We can't forget Asuka has allready graduated and probably could attent a university if she wanted to. You could wander what she is even doing there in the first place? We see Asuka doing a lot of effort to be honnest. To fit in and create some camaraderie.

To say that this is "making an effort" is like praising a holiwood actress for wearing a fatsuit. "Woo she lowered herself to the level of ordinary mortals" The very idea that this is an effort strikes me personally as arrogant. Also both of those parties were to celebrate pilot stuff so that was a courtesy invitation at best. Like Asuka says as early as ep 11 that she hates Rei (though ep 10 already has an interaction that suggests hate)

As for the fitting in thing it depends on what you mean by it - id'd say that being popular IS a way of fitting in, at its top you're still in the hierarchy.
Still her effort is clearly perfectionism, not people-pleasing.

Meanwhile Rei is just indifferent & ignored her; The closest the comes to hostility is in ep 16 but it's more like she was mad in this specific situation; In ep 22 she tries to give her advice. Though she'd probably have tried to help any fellow pilot in that situation. In that sequence in ep 14 where she mentions the ppl she knows Asuka is dead last even after Kensuke, Touji & Hikari (except for Gendo who is his own can of worms) and referred only as "Unit 2 Pilot".
- I get that for some ppl being ignored is probably even worse than being treated like an enemy, also not everyone needs to get along sometimes ppl don't like each other. Not liking someone in itself doesn't make Asuka a bad person. It's not like Rei made an effort to be friends either; Still it seems pretty clear that those 2 don't get along.

As for why she's in school: that's cause Misato made her, probably so she would get normal social contacts with kids her age (and because of NERV surveillance lets not kid ourselves). It's understandable that she would be frustrated at this, though it seems that she got pretty popular pretty fast as by the opening montage in ep 9 - though it seems Hikari was the only genuine friend. She was probably inwardly lonely; But the point is that her actions were counterproductory & contradictory - that's of course the case for pretty much all the characters; I'm not singling her out.

Her interaction with Rei is plain weird but she only does so against Rei, to be honnest it sort of resembles a conversation you would have to someone who has autism

The stereotype of autism maybe which real autistic ppl on the internet hate like the plague.
As I said before, Rei's lack of social skills is not that far beyond typical socially akwward teens; I was much similar and the weirdest thing I could be classified as is a INTP in the myers briggs and that's 1-5% of all people so still a little uncommon at most. Of course in Rei's case it's somewhat stylized for the genre/setting/sci fi elements (most socially oblivious teens would still mind being naked), but so is Asuka.(Expert soldier AND looks like a model AND an over the top child prodigy? Granted there was at least one teen working at nasa but there's probably not more than a few hundred such people on earth. )
Also even if we accept the premise that "Rei talks like a disabled person" would make Asuka's dislike less justified not more. We should not mistreat the disabled or take their disabilities personally & being talked to like an idiot is the number one type of mistreatment disabled ppl complain about... well, no 3 after lack of accommodations & difficulties accessing healthcare/welfare ^^°

Again Asuka was made to do special training with Shinji precisely cause she wasn't thinking about how soldiers should be comrades and there's a big difference between comrades and friends. It's a problem If you can't work together in battle but Rei explicitly says that she'll do it as far as the job demands.
mind you, Asuka is certainly not the only one who would be iffed if they were told by someone that they'd only associate as far as professionally necessary, that would be a common enough human reaction so I'm by no means putting it all on her.