Rei Is Best Waifu

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:04 pm

I never understood the whole deal over whether certain anime waifus are “legal.” Like it or not, you’re never going to have sex with a cartoon, so it’s completely irrelevant to complain about certain cartoon characters being below the age of 18.

And even then, Rei fans don’t really tend to sexualize her that much. They just like her personality and character arc, and they appreciate the moe aspects of her in a less sexual way. Asuka fans are the ones who sometimes fall into that weird grey area of sexualizing characters below the age of 18.

EDIT: Please note that not everyone is like this, I'm just speaking in big generalizations.
Last edited by BusterMachine4 on Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Derantor » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:12 pm

Let's not start to throw around flame-war-bait like making broad statements about fans of a certain character please. Sexualization of the characters can be discussed here, and the age-gap discussion would be better suited to this thread.

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:14 pm

I've had the hots for Rei since she was older than me.

Which illustrates how this is an absolutely nonsensical question. IDK to watch extent a cartoon person, frozen in time, able to ber imagined with any age or looks you want can even be considered to have an age;
Probably you'd be imagining yourself interacting with them as young younger self whose life experiences still influence you today. Or, you project yourself in there 'cause they're the PoV characters & then you imagine them doing what you, an older person, would do with your gf

There was this study which showed that ppl get aroused from a film of monkeys fucking; that doesn't mean they want to fuck monkeys in real life. It means that watching fucking monkeys makes them think about fucking in general & that makes one excited.
Maybe you ship monkey A with monkey B or you imagine what it would be like to be a monkey having monkey sex.


Also, for most of human history ppl were considered adults at 15, many reach their final height/looks already;
These characters are certainly drawn mature-looking.
The problem is rather that somehow acknowledging that someone is pretty is seen as immediately implying an action & all the entitlement issues tied up with that, as if harassing a 25 year old in a skimpy dress would be okay.
Kinda has the same energy as "oh, I'd never bully someone who was autistic but anyone who has no medical reason to be weird is fair game" like you can magically tell people's age/ neurology by just looking or like bullying someone who's just eccentric is somehow ethical.
Instead of fussing so much about who's an acceptable target maybe we should do something about the entitled attitudes produced in society.
It's certainly worse to bully the disabled or creep on young inexperienced ppl but we could also try to have to creeping/bullying at all.
The problem is the ppl who don't go away when you say "hey dude I'm like 12"

EDIT: Ah didn't see the above post, sorry

Anyways back to topic, Rei is best.
Or, if I'm forced to acknowledge the reality that there may be personal taste involved, she's at the very least my fav
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby robersora » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:30 pm

Genrally I'm not interested in these types of discussions but I pop in now and then to see if everything is in order,
either way this
View Original PostKendrix wrote:I've had the hots for Rei since she was older than me.

is iconic, honestly.


My take is, that Mari is the best of the Children, she seems to be the most fun and least annoying to deal with. Kaji and Misato are the hottest, Ritsuko is the most fascinating, Kaworu is heart-balm and at one point his words (in 3.33 especially) gave me a lot of strength. I personally resent the term Waifu as it implies a property situation with a fictional character and by employing it, it would mean I learnt nothing Anno was trying to tell us about this show in the first place, but it's a super intriguing concept in a meta and cultural way.
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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:53 pm

Plus, I think that’s one of the things Anno has warned us about when it comes to the Otaku culture.

The only time Anno ever addressed that (important) issue was probably in Love&Pop.

Notice how Love&Pop was a live-action film with real actors about a real life issue. It had nothing to do with otaku culture either.

If there is any person on this site or the internet that feels like going after minors (themselves being adults) they probably have some very serious mental issue to begin with. It surely isn't something caused by "otaku culture" (which Eva is a part of - Anno is the first person who ever sexualized Rei Ayanami, like it or not, but he sure isn't making any commentary on it, unless the fanservice he keeps making and the figures his company keeps selling are part of some sort of very contrived message).

Remember how videogames supposedly made people violent?

Also, the issue Anno had adressed is the issue of escapism, which fanservicey anime is just one possible form of. Which can be used as escapism, but that isn't necessarily an issue or intrinsic to it. Too much of anything is bad, that's what's key.

Edit: Sorry, hadn't seen the mod post and was under the impression it was the last post in the topic.

Edit2: Kendrix intelligently adressed this I think.
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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:16 pm

View Original PostDerantor wrote:Let's not start to throw around flame-war-bait like making broad statements about fans of a certain character please. Sexualization of the characters can be discussed here, and the age-gap discussion would be better suited to this thread.

Sorry about that, I edited the post to add a disclaimer.

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Postby YTPrenewed » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:24 pm

I would think (or at least hope) most people saying this mean "for the protagonist her own age" rather than for themselves.

Or alternatively, "for ourselves back when we were their age." In junior high, incidentally, there was a girl who Asuka reminds me of who was rumoured by others to have a crush on me. And another who Hikari reminds me of who I thought had a crush on me. Didn't go for either of them because I was too fixated on some other girl at the time. (To whom I can think of no close comparison within NGE.)

That said, it's not the only issue here. Rei looks cute on-screen, but if we met someone like her in real life, the guilt of being unable to meet her wants and needs, when she's too emotionally repressed to even say what they are, might hang over our heads. You could say that if she were like the more expressive version shown in the Armisael fight (not every combat scene doubles as an "embraced by a ghostly apparition of your love interest" scene!) it would've worked better, but by that standard you could also say the post-mommy-issues-resolution version of Asuka in EoE would've made a better love interest for Shinji than NGE!Asuka. You could say "yeah they'd make great girlfriends for Shinji if not for their issues," but remove the issues, and you're removing key elements of what make NGE NGE; the mental issues specifically, and the more tragic aspects of the storyline generally.

There's also the issue of her being
SPOILER: Show
a clone of his dead mother.
Not sure what remedy, if any, there could be for that. At the very least one of them would have to get sterilized before you could even begin to claim their relationship couldn't harm anyone else. Part of why ep 9 was so refreshing, at least to those of us who read ahead in spoilers about what Rei was; it looked like there was potential for Shinji/Asuka, which already seemed to put it ahead of Shinji/Rei.

Why couldn't he have dated any of the girls who were fawning over his piloting abilities in ep 3? Did he already have too much of a crush on Rei to go for any of them, or was he just worried that if he dated them they'd think he was cheating on them with Asuka, Rei, or Misato? Seems a little odd after the events of ep 3 for him to be complaining that no one wants him. Or for that matter for Asuka (or an imagined version thereof?) to claim he'd "run up to anyone."

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:32 am

"Which one do you üersonally as a fan find most appealing" and "which one would be the best match for Shinji" are actually very separate questions.
There's some overlap (there's some characteristics that would make a person bad to be around in general, no matter who it is) but a lot of personal taste & personal priorities involved.



It's pretty easy to see why nothing happened with any of the random fangirls from ep 3/5, at this point Shinji was barely beginning to forge any bonds with anyone at that point (including Touji & Kesuke), he was privately tutored before, was having a bad time because of the whole "being drafted to fight giant monsters" and it's pretty apparent that he didn't have a sociable or optimistic attitude to begin with;
If he even registered the fangirls he was probably just embarrassed by it if not slightly bitter, they probably think all this fighting business is cool; He would certainly have assumed that they'd lose interest quickly once they realized he was just an average guy without special bravery or knowledge.
Ie - they don't want him they just think the fighting stuff sounds cool, which Shinji knows for a fact it is not.
Of course this doesn't preclude
Likewise I doubt he ever gave any thought to "cheating" because he never expected to actually end up with anyone or that they would actually want/chose him.

I don't really see the problem with Rei; You'd just have to be a bit considerate (which Shinji certainly tries to be, at least in an everyday fashion; not that he always succeeds) and she can make herself clear enough when she thinks it's important; She'd just need more life experience to realize which things those are. She's quite capable of telling ppl off or smacking them & is usually brutally honest.

I get personally being unable to handle certain communication styles (I absolutely can't with those clingy, smothering compulsory helper syndrome types who ingratiate themselves and then throw a fit about some perceived subtle slight, especially since I'm not good at picking up subtle social cues & hate feeling helpless/incapable & can't function without my alone time) but that doesn't mean that no one could possibly deal with or enjoy the person in question.

I don't see how the Yui thing is relevant because
a) the whole point of Rei as a character is that she is her own person
b) it's heavily implied that she can't have kids anyways
c) Not every couple needs to be parents & adoption exists
d) they're at least 10 years too young for kids

Rei was always going to be a tragic character in canon, but any good tragedy works through the lost potential, the good that was there but couldn't quite overcome the ppl's flaws of their circumstances ( besides ff is often about the untapped potential that's why there's plotty angsty AUs of fluffy kids shows and cute fluffy ics of dark gritty works)
Asuka is deliberately designed to be the most difficult possible person for Shinji to get along with, to embody the difficulties of coexistence.
At first they just kind of hate each other but longterm that would make it too easy; She's there, she's hot, he's lonely & horny; It's more or less the same way the other way around. He's most afraid of hostility & rejection but also of effing up and causing others pain - so Asuka to him is someone who acts hostile for reasons he can't control (he didn't want to be good at eva piloting) but also someone whom he fails to impress & be friends with & whom he cannot help & then feels guilty over;
She is trying hard to repress the part of her that's desperate for any sort of nurturing & company, the part that's just like everyone else; & of course she's afraid of being beaten. So here's some random nobody whom she considers the most pathetic person ever who beats her without trying, who goes around fishing for sympathy the exact way she's trying to tell herself she's not allowed to though she very much wants to & to her horror she realizes she's so lonely & starved for attention that she'd take it even from him.
The lesson of that is obviously that you have to be able to cope with ppl like that existing without throwing furniture, but to go from there to "you should chose them as your wife" is a big leap & probably the kind of unproductive self-punishment that he ought to stop doing, giving in to that weakness of trying to please everyone (including ppl who are consistently mean to you) making yourself bland & featureless so you're not criticised & worrying too much what ppl think of you. Yeah she is mean but Shinji's shortcomings uniquely let her get to him. (Same the other way around, if Asuka wasn't so fixating on winning or seeing every little bit of help she gets as an insult)
She kinda gets the part of the negative voice in a lot of Shinji's inner dialogue; Sometimes what she says it's right and it's something Shinji might not want to see, but sometimes it's just that, a fear/negative voice/pov, of the sort you're likely to experience a lot if you received sub-par parenting
The truth sometimes hurts, but not everything that hurts is the truth; & thinking that all your negative perceptions are true is just as much of a problem as trying to ignore all negativity; Shinji kinda oscillates between both or, rather he tries to ignore everything precisely cause he sees it as negative.
I seem to remember some long scenes about the influence of perspective.

Now I see how some might consider the "most difficult possible relationship" as a fun intellectual exercise, I see their ideal state as comrades or found family, like Misato & Kaji adopt them and move somewhere sunny.

(One day when I'm less busy I might write this whole essay about how the characters are used in each other's introspection sequences)

Riding into the sunset as teens doesn't mean you'll necessarily still be together at 30 - though that certainly happens especially in small towns.
In the end in all fictional media there is a tendency for ppl to find their soulmates at whatever age they are when the story takes place XDD
If you wanted to be uber realistic any characters who got married at all probably got with completely different ppl not someone out of the cast. But good luck getting anyone to read your " 20 year old Shinji X random art student" fanfiction.
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby Berserker » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:52 am

And here transforms a waifu war into a shipping war. Why and how do people always mix waifu and shipping stuff? I don't get it. I've seen a lot of these and people always do this after a certain amount of time. How does shipping logics even work with waifu issues?
As kendrix stated above, if you find a certain character most appealing and "like a person you wanna be with" that's waifu talk. On the other hand, pairing characters and how it'll work between them from your opinion (whether it's canon or not) is shipping stuff. These are completely different topic.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:37 am

I guess there's some overlap just 'cause Shinji is the Pov Character.

I can easily see how a non-shinji person might think Asuka - especially an Asuka who's had the chance to get older & wiser - would be their ideal girl (or at least see the good in her as worth putting up with the flaws) - she's cool, she's pretty, and she's put through a lot of unfair crappy stuff it's natural enough to feel the urge to make it easier on her.
You'd probably have to be thick-skinned and it would probably help to be a naturally expressive/demonstrative person who could easily give her lots of unprompted attention.

As for who was designed in universe to be the closest to Shinji's ideal mate, that's probably Kaworu; He was especially made that way so it would hurt maximally when he was yanked away; But Rei is not so different from him, though she requires a bit more initiative to get in touch with, & I think you see Shinji at his best when he makes however feeble attempts to put in the work needed; He's not super good or successful at it And it all just ends in tears but I've always been a sucker for when you have those little glimmers of warmth & humanity amid a bleak setting

Though in terms of me personally liking her it's a mix of admiring the resolute & philosophical parts of her & relating strongly to the whole "weird lonely schoolgirl" experience.
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby Berserker » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:22 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I guess there's some overlap just 'cause Shinji is the Pov Character.

That's another weird thing to me. Why do you have to think yourself as the character? Does that get you inside the anime or give life to the character you feel affectionate about? If you're fond of the character, just do whatever you want being you (by you,i'm talking in general to those people who does this thing).
Though in terms of me personally liking her it's a mix of admiring the resolute & philosophical parts of her & relating strongly to the whole "weird lonely schoolgirl" experience

I thought i would never say this, but apparently i am. I don't exactly drool over or take a character as "waifu material". But the reason i like Rei over other characters is most probably because i'm like that myself. It probably doesn't seem like that here to you guys since i'm posting everyday, arguing and all. But i'm usually almost like her. It's not like i hate the other characters. But they're not someone i can relate to.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:50 am

it helps that eva as a whole has pretty life-like dialogue sometimes
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby Aslatiel » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 am

Duuuude, seriously, let's not start that kind of a debate. Everyone has got their own favorite waifus, and that is a normal thing, you cannot just say that one or another waifu is the best, she is the best for you! However, I must say that I have always had a thing for Rei, that is true. As someone said above, maybe it happened due to the fact that she was always older than me. However, I recently found this website https://waifuforlaifu.com/pages/waifu-generator , there you can get a perfect waifu, generated special for you!
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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:35 pm

View Original PostBerserker wrote:That's another weird thing to me. Why do you have to think yourself as the character? Does that get you inside the anime or give life to the character you feel affectionate about?

It's how I wrote my fanfic - I had to become each character to find out what they would think and do.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:39 am

Though I never really got this whole idea that Rei is supposed to be the 'easy' one.


For one thing, all three of the main girls show up in the 'why do you hide stuff' pre-instrumentality train sequence, heck, she gets most of the dialogue there. (she was after all sitting on some serious big secrets)

Any and all in-universe dialogue portrays her as not very approachable & no one in-universe gushes about how hot she is like Misato or Asuka.
Shinji spends 2 entire episodes trying to befriend her & succeeds only after much embarrassment & being mostly ignored, then he gets her mad & gets himself slapped etc.

She's nice and undemanding... sometimes? That's not unrealistic. Sometimes people are nice & accepting. Having everyone be harsh always would be just as unrealistic as having everyone always be pleasant. It's not like she swooned at Shinji's feet & gave him everything he wanted. She's just got a few little moments of being nice & nonjudgmental. That doesn't mean that she isn't brutally honest or remind him of duty & consequence; It's just a few fleeting glimmers of warmth & connection in a harsh world - what's more, it's a few glimmers of warmth that happen because, despite his fear of such things and the inevitable pain of loss that followed, he made an effort to reach out and connect, feeble and imperfect as it was, it's not nothing. Hence that quote about how ep 6 was about 'communication' or that bit about 'the hope that ppl can understand each other'.

I mean yeah there's this whole point about making an effort & facing difficulty but one mustn't forget why we should do this: Not because suffering is just what we deserve but because if we don't put in the work we won't have good things. Unless you subscribe to catholicism or really hate yourself, there's really no point in suffering just for suffering's sake. (which is why worship of pointless suffering is really a pet peeve of mine)
Wanting by all means to spoil even this little, scarce, fleeting bit of goodness in a world that has more than enough punishment and gritty realism, dismissing it as "oh clearly this can't be real its a trap, you're bad for wanting it" seems more like masochism & self-hate than realism to me. Seeing everything negative is as much of a distortion of wanting to see only the good things (& Shinji oscillates between both depending on the circumstances the weather and the phase of the moon; He'd probably be less doubtful of everything if he had a more stable idea of things, but this sort of thing isn't uncommon in ppl with abandonment issues)

Sometimes when I rewatch it I'm surprised how short & brief those moments really are, cause it felt so much longer the first time around; It's the overall bleakness of everything else that makes these moments shine... and that's not just true for Shinji if anything Rei's life sucks waaaay worse.

It's really as much of a fantasy from the other side, because if you're the designated class weirdo that everyone assumes not so good things about & you don't really know how to remedy that, the idea that someone will try to get to know you is really beautiful. And it's not completely unrealistic either. It does happen occasionally & I can think of cases where such a person became my BFF and/or someone I had a raging crush on.
Ovsly it's not a good strategy to 'wait to be saved' (though this is a problem all the four MCs have to varying degrees) but you won't learn how to people except by peopling & something like this can be a start... which is also what we see in the show where Rei's talking with Touji & acting different in general (& also reevaluating Gendo)
Maybe more obvious in the Rebuilds where it's all more condensed & designed with a more clear 'throughline' - maybe Shinji gets the first 'thank you', but Asuka & Mari follow suit.

Because she's so isolated it's not even immediately obvious since caring-ness is a trait that mostly manifests through interaction, so you only see it when some unpleasantness befalls her fellow pilots (that also includes Touji & Asuka)

It takes much hard work which he puts in since he feels they ought to get along if they're the only ones stuck in this terrible situation & that's where you see his better qualities after he spent most of the prologue arc crying and flailing and surviving by a hair's breadth.


The thing with Rei (independent of Shinji or anyone else) is that there is this whole-ass person with deep thoughts and no one notices or really treats her like she matters; She knows nothing else, she has accepted it, even she doesn't act like she matters. She doesn't even try to seek something more, she might not even be aware that she wants something more; at this point she actively seeks to have just the minimum & isn't comfortable with anything more, but you can tell that's not the full story from how she appreciates it when someone is nice to her. No one knows anything about her, what she likes, what she feels, what she thinks... all that happens in a distant, secret place. She's basically had her future decided from day one. She knows exactly how everything will happen (or so she thinks), all that's left for her to do is to play the part. What's inside her heart is not required, only a warm body is, and if she disappeared no one would notice... and she's torn between being in dreadful despair over that and wishing it were all over so that at least she wouldn't have to suffer anymore.
Even so she's compassionate, and determined & stoic in the face of terror. She sees it as just doing her job, but look at the others... but they're acting normal for someone in their situation especially someone so young. Acting otherwise is a rare virtue.*
There is much there than can move compassion, empathy and care.
There is much there that can move admiration liking and if you be so inclined/wired, desire.
There is much there that can move interest, curiosity & fascination.

*(especially since she's grinning & bearing it - Mari is just one of that percentage of ppl who are natural thrill-seekers and tend towards 'fight' out of fight flight or freeze. That's not strategic behavior - see how she went from attacking everything blindly to precise sniping over the timeskip. Judging by her line about 'finally being trusted with an EVA', she wasn't much more trained than Shinji.)

I guess Asuka fans aren't really that different I see enough of them going on about all the bad crap that happened to her and I mean, bad crap DID happen to her and she should have gotten a better life.

I mean, there's no one with zero flaws or who won't bring out frustrating parts in yourself. You've got to pick someone whose flaws you can live with & whose good parts are worth it for you & take responsibility for managing your own crap.
I couldn't with someone who hurls insults as easily as Asuka but maybe a more thick-skinned person could (see how Mari just kinda teases her back or how Hikari seems to adire her confidence etc.)
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:51 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:no one in-universe gushes about how hot she is like Misato or Asuka.

Are you forgetting about this scene? :wink:
But I agree with the idea that Rei is far from "the easy option." She is often shown to be cold and unapproachable, and only after knowing Shinji for a while does she begin to get close to him. She has just as many flaws as anyone in the series, and she certainly isn't the "2D plot device waifu" that many Asuka fans dismiss her as.

If Rei wasn't a clone of Yui, she would be just as valid of a romantic option for Shinji as Asuka, and probably a lot better than Asuka too.

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby Berserker » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:58 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:It's how I wrote my fanfic - I had to become each character to find out what they would think and do.

Ugh, my old posts..

It's surprising how I totally failed to interpret my own thoughts in words back then. What I had tried to mean was that the idea of placing yourselves in the shoes of the mentioned "pov character" as in the universally relatable character, typically the main protagonists, just to kinda stimulate yourselves into thinking that your waifu is real in parallel to the pov character and to experience, more precisely fantasize about the events and occurings your ship did is totally bizarre to me. I mean, shipping and waifu-ism(if that's even a word) and their respective logics can never get along. They're two distinct thing of their own.

What you've said though, straight up relating to the characters or simply put yourself in their place to think of what they've gone through is a whole different thing than that above and absolutely normal. As I've already mentioned earlier, I can relate a lot to Rei and Shinji distinctively. It's how I can feel what they've gone through. Evangelion's vicinity to reality and life like situations and events makes it relatable to everyone in some extent, I believe, at least even a minimal if they go though the depth. Nothing strikes me wrong in here. But in contrast to this, when this whole relating thing clashes with all the shipping and waifu-ism forcefully or not, things start to look really abysmal to me. For instance, when someone pairs Shinji with Rei/Asuka/Misato since one of them is their waifu, so they've to ship them to kinda generate a fantasy among themselves as if doing that makes them "isekai" into Shinji's body. That's the weird thing to me.

I don't mean to say I hate on ships and waifus. They're fine, in their own way. But mixing them up, intertwining their logics, creating a waifu-ship-mental isekai thing just worsens everything IMO. And again, relating to characters is a whole different thing than any of this.
EvaGeeks at its finest: discussing whether or not a 14 yo girl has breast implants and how they should look. ~Shamsiel-kun
Sometimes I secretly think the reason I'm an A/S shipper is because I want Rei for myself. ~Chuckman
Eew, penis and testicles, gross! ~Reichu
My dude, "cross, crucifix, troubles, back, rood, buttock" sounds a lot closer to classic Evangelion than just one stray buttock roaming around in the film. ~FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Re: Rei Is Best Waifu

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Postby komatsu007 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:12 am

Interestingly enough, when I first watched Eva in the late 1990s/early 2000s I was very much an Asuka fan - no creepiness there, the characters were about my age. As I got older though, Rei became more and more fascinating as a character in my eyes. As a matter of fact, I wish Anno would have leaned on more on the whole Rei/Yui connection as well as her relationship with Gendou. I also find her character design just better than Asuka's. Also, bob haircuts are great.
"Oh, play that thing! Mute glorious Storyvilles / Others may license, grouping around their chairs / Sporting-house girls like circus tigers (priced far above rubies) to pretend their fads/ While scholars manqués nod around unnoticed/Wrapped up in personnels like old plaids. On me your voice falls as they say love should, like an enormous yes" - "For Sidney Bechet", Philip Larkin


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