Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:03 pm

Dan Kanemitsu (credited in Japan as "Daniel Makoto Kanemitsu", 兼光ダニエル真) has been the in-house translator at khara for as long as there's been a khara. He does the translation work that's inside the actual movies, he does the film festival subtitles, he does translation work for khara's publications, exhibitions, etc. Anno uses him for his work in general, so Dan was naturally on board Shin Godzilla, and I'd hazard to guess he provided the subtitles for that recent-ish Anno live film collection on BD as well. Dan even lent his voice for Eva 2.0!

(Bit of trivia: He and Eva go at least as far back as the original Japanese video release of the TV show -- a Peanuts-styled comic included in one of the Eva Fan Club newsletters packaged with this release, has its English translation credited to... guess who? :P )

It's weird seeing people only now realize who Dan is when he's been part of the team for so long. I guess it's that whole "take someone for granted until you have reason to complain about them" thing.

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:Great, so now we know who to crucify...

You were already asked to refrain from attacks. Even as a joke, suggesting that Mr. Kanemitsu be CRUCIFIED just for doing his job -- providing translation services for a client -- is rather beyond the pale. The changes are not an attack on you personally; please try to steer your mindset away from treating them that way. Dan is being put through quite enough grief at the moment, and EvaGeeks does not need to add onto the problem. Disagreement can be voiced in a civil, constructive manner; there is no need to seek scapegoats to brutally flog.

Being in pain is not an excuse to inflict pain. NGE itself provides plenty of illustrations of that.

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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:16 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Whether or not Khara had approval over dub performances is (as far as I know) unknown, but given the stink that they raised over Funimation's handling of 3.0, it wouldn't surprise me if they had to OK it as well.


Matter of fact, the director for the new dub says the cast was "chosen by Japan" through blind auditions. I added it to the article as well.

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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:19 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Being in pain is not an excuse to inflict pain. NGE itself provides plenty of illustrations of that.


Reichu, I think that just might be one of the most beautiful things I ever seen you write since I've been on this forum.

And to be clear, I really was just joking, and I thought I evoke of Eva-themed imagery to go with it. Hence the word crucify, which is as hyperbolic as it is absurd. I would never attack someone online like that and actually advocate or condone violence in that way (or in person t be frank) as is soften the cace on social media.

However, I do find it interesting that people seemed to have been far more harsher on AWL regarding the Manga version of EoE... I guess what's happening now is like a reverse version of that in a way..
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Postby Reichu » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:29 am

AWL wasn't hand-picked by the people who created Eva to adapt it into another language, and her decisions indicated that she either didn't respect the original artistic intent or she didn't understand it. She has also long been very unprofessional in how she publically regards the original creators; a lack of basic decorum does not inspire respect. It's incomparable to the current situation, hence the different outcome.

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:59 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:AWL wasn't hand-picked by the people who created Eva to adapt it into another language, and her decisions indicated that she either didn't respect the original artistic intent or she didn't understand it. She has also long been very unprofessional in how she publically regards the original creators; a lack of basic decorum does not inspire respect. It's incomparable to the current situation, hence the different outcome.


I can understand that. I was in the Eva subreddit and they were talking about the changes to new dub of EoE and the subject of the big "SPLOOSH" when Misato rescues Shinji came up.

So I chimed in and said "So they made EoE less fun now?" And like a dozen people decided to put me on blast with one person saying "You and AWL are like only people on Earth who think that EoE should unironically be fun."

I mean, the only issue I've had with that dub is during Misato's exposition dump when she mixes Adam and Lilith regarding the origins of the Angels and Humanity. Beyond that, I've never really seen what the big deal was...
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:09 am

The splooshes were the most egregious, random and uncalled for change AWL made to EoE. "Hit em again" is pretty bad too, and the script error with Misato's exposition is a huge canonical oversight. On the whole, the Manga dub of EoE is preferable to me, but those things, minor they may seem, do derail what could've otherwise a pretty good dub.
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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:19 am

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:The splooshes were the most egregious, random and uncalled for change AWL made to EoE. "Hit em again" is pretty bad too, and the script error with Misato's exposition is a huge canonical oversight. On the whole, the Manga dub of EoE is preferable to me, but those things, minor they may seem, do derail what could've otherwise a pretty good dub.


I can understand that. Personally, the sound effects never really took me out of the movie.

As far that flubbed line goes....Well, being the evageek that I am, it wasn't hard to get the correct info about what Misato meant there. Plus, in my head canon (for the English version anyway) there is somewhat of an explanation for the discrepancy in that Kaji misidentified Lilith as Adam in episode 15. So, in at least one iteration of the Eva-verse it's possible Misato just sort of ran with that misinformation and extrapolated the wrong conclusions about it. All the same, I know what the correct version is and this was how I'd put my own spin on it to justify the error.

Although, the right editing, one could easily fix that line using Alison's vocal dialogue. In EoE, she says "You see Shinji, we were spawned from a being called Lilith just like Adam was."

Well, with a bit of cropping, one could change it to "You see Shinji, we were spawned from a being called Lilith just like [the Angels] were spawned from Adam."

All one would have to do is basically copy and paste any part in the series where she says "the Angels" and then rearrange the rest of the line accordingly and cut into the scene. It might be a bit choppy but it could work..

I'd actually love to see a version of TV NGE's 25 + 26 edited together with EoE and this little fix. That would be awesome.
FROM EVANGELION:
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"I'm saying that I love you."

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"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:53 am

I think people really have been using Dan to let out their frustration. He just did his job, which like all creative endeavors can be considered good or bad, but I don't know how people arrived at "extremist right wing homophobe and child pornography defendor".

I actually kinda know because I've seen mistranslated/misquoted text about him being shared. Each time it gets shared, it changes more.
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Postby ErgoProxy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:52 pm

kuribo-04 wrote:I don't know how people arrived at "extremist right wing homophobe and child pornography defendor".

This is probably because they refused to do their history homework on extremism, which is bad regardless of flavor.

I have a theory that they feel it like punching nazis is more than enough to prove commies are good, so they think they are allowed to go extreme commie and collectively assault the element wywrotowy, accusing him or her of all sins against the ideology being currently on top. And they feel innnocent doing this, because the collective is never wrong, while voice of an individual means and matters nothing. Instrumentality for the masses, in its most vulgar variety.
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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:00 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I actually kinda know because I've seen mistranslated/misquoted text about him being shared. Each time it gets shared, it changes more.


It's your basic game of telephone and rumor spreading...A he said/she said witch hunt... Well now I really feel bad about the joke I made before...
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"

"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:45 pm

The rest I don’t care about but “hit ‘en again” was a work of genius.
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Postby johnnysasaki » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:30 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:
Normally I wouldn't care at all about the dub, but I really hoped that this would finally be an easy version to watch the show for my friends. They want it in German, and they want it to be easily accessible. There is no pirate site that hosts German language Eva, so I really hoped for a good localization. That's that, I guess.



I have the original German dub(in fact,I have most previous dubs)

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Postby robersora » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:28 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I actually kinda know because I've seen mistranslated/misquoted text about him being shared. Each time it gets shared, it changes more.

Oh my, Twitter is a cesspool. People shouting big-headed ideas in a 280 character framework was never a good idea. That being said, do you have a link? I'm just curious as to how the goal posts get changed little by little.



View Original PostChuckman wrote:The rest I don’t care about but “hit ‘en again” was a work of genius.

When did this quote happen? lol



View Original PostErgoProxy wrote:This is probably because they refused to do their history homework on extremism, which is bad regardless of flavor.
I have a theory that they feel it like punching nazis is more than enough to prove commies are good, so they think they are allowed to go extreme commie and collectively assault the element wywrotowy, accusing him or her of all sins against the ideology being currently on top. And they feel innnocent doing this, because the collective is never wrong, while voice of an individual means and matters nothing. Instrumentality for the masses, in its most vulgar variety.

This; but human do have dark urges, especially if we feel like we're driven into a corner. (Or at least, this is how it is with me). The question is, do you act on them? And while words can be as hurtful as violent actions; maybe it's a way to appease the mob, before they decide to pick up the pitch fork.
Either way, I tried googling wywrotowy, I didn't find anything I could understand, lol. What does it mean?



View Original Postjohnnysasaki wrote:I have the original German dub(in fact,I have most previous dubs)

Uh~ nice.
Now more than anything I wanna sync my Blu-Rays to both translations, for sake of comparing.
I don't have time right now, but I'll might come back to you about this later :)


View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:I'd actually love to see a version of TV NGE's 25 + 26 edited together with EoE and this little fix. That would be awesome.

There is something called Evangelion Concurrency Project going on on this forum; while I never looked into it, you might be interested in it!
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:42 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:Oh my, Twitter is a cesspool. People shouting big-headed ideas in a 280 character framework was never a good idea. That being said, do you have a link? I'm just curious as to how the goal posts get changed little by little.

Those tweets I saw were sadly in Spanish. And I think they are reaaally far behind in my timeline now.

But basically what happened is users would quote other users, the information becoming more simplified and extreme each time. And people I guess just listen to the first thing they see.

What was an opinion that the love/like thing was removing progress of acceptance of homosexuality in media (which I think is a valid stance) became "the guy is a homophobe".

The statement that the guy was a conservative (without source) ended up being "he is an extremist right wing", and a quote of his saying that people confuse characters drawn in cutesy manga art style as children in other countries and that that leads to accusations of child pornography (also its own debatable thing, since he also stated that there exists no manga child pornography, which I think definitely isn't true) just became "defendor of manga child porn".

On top of this these tweets were used as a source by some news site.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Postby ErgoProxy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:50 am

robersora wrote:This; but human do have dark urges, especially if we feel like we're driven into a corner. (Or at least, this is how it is with me). The question is, do you act on them? And while words can be as hurtful as violent actions; maybe it's a way to appease the mob, before they decide to pick up the pitch fork.

Reluctantly, but I must agree with your opinion on this.

robersora wrote:Either way, I tried googling wywrotowy, I didn't find anything I could understand, lol. What does it mean?

It's a term from the commie jargon for tagging people who question or actively go against the state and order, which in commie case is "scientifically" proven to be the last stage of the mankind's development, in the end making everyone happy. Imagine the original SEELE (I'm not sure about the Rebuild one) acts open to public. Everyone who would oppose it would be wywrotowy.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:10 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:When did this quote happen? lol


During the siege of NERV in the first half of EOE, there's a shot that lasts about 5 seconds long that starts out with some JSSDF goon firing a flamethrower down a hallway, presumably roasting some NERV staff. He fires it once, then pauses, and fires again. Amanda Winn-Lee decided to add him saying the line "Hit 'em again." during the pause. No such line exists in the Japanese version.
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Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:42 am

I am 16 episodes in now. The new Rei feels like a totally different character. I'm used to perceiving her as completely emotionless above a subconscious level. Here, she's quiet, but still very emotional. She's even, dare I say it, cute. I've always thought of her as more creepy than cute. I wonder if EoE will bring the creepiness back.

On an unrelated note, it bothered me how they toned down Misato's sexual comments early in the show. "It's not like I'd try any funny business with a kid" is much more ambiguous, and there's no hint of sexuality in "feel free to take advantage of anything here," despite Shinji's oddly embarrassed reaction. I don't remember whether they subtitled the comment on Misato's photograph, but if they didn't, it was probably for technical reasons, so I can let that slide.

Anyway, I accidentally spoiled Misato coming into Shinji for my friend. She's watching the series for the first time, and she asked "Why are all the women in this show so sexualized?" and I said "Well, Misato and Asuka are sexualizinf themselves," to which she responded "I thought Misato was just being herself?" Then I explained the comments that were changed, and because I cared enough to tell her about these comments, she decided they must be important, which must mean that Misato comes on to Shinji. If she had just seen the comments in passing, she wouldn't have consciously placed significance on them. This is mostly my fault, but I'm still gonna shake my fist at the dub. *shakeitty shake*

Anyway, at his point (2/3 through the show), the only person I miss from the old dub is Spike Spencer. Asuka and Rei are huge improvements. Gendo is a slight improvement. Misato, Kaji, and Ritsuko are about as good as they were before. Shinji's old voice is ingrained in my memory, though, and as good as the new performance is, I can't help but here it as a more feminine and nasally version of Spike.

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Postby cyharding » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:11 pm

After reading what all of you have written on this thread, and seeing a couple youtube videos showcasing examples between the Netfilx and ADV dub, I decided to sit down and watch. Since I only had time for one episode, I decided to watch episode 13. I chose this episode not only because I have a soft spot for it despite its unpopularity, but it is also the best episode to hear vast majority of the main and secondary characters, even if it's only a line or two. While I am not a huge fan of dubs, I did like the new one overall with the standouts for me being Asuka, Gendo, and Maya. The only negative for me is Hyuga. That was annoyingly screechy to my ears. If I do watch the show or any of the movies seriously on Netflix, I'll be watching with subs, but it woudln't hurt to watch with the dub on a casual basis.
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Postby penguintruth » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:13 am

I ended up doing a whole blog post about why I feel the new dub captures more of the characters’ subtleties. I managed to get in a good amount of explanation. However, to summarize, the old dub is broader and exaggerated while the new one feels more natural and has more shades.

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:35 am

I am now taking the opportunity for a full rewatch of the series, using the new dub, and for me there's little that's not substantially improved. I never disliked Spencer's Shinji, but the new VA does make him more real for me; I am taken back to myself and my peers at that age in a way that didn't happen with the ADV dub.
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