Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:22 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Are you guys fans of EVA, or fans of ADV & Mange Entertainment's VERSION of Eva?


Same thing. The question is no different than sub vs dub, manga vs anime. You don't like the ADV dub? Fine, your right, just as ours is to not like the Netflix dub.
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Postby Joseki » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:05 am

Meanwhile here in Italy we are still without any dub after months. The new one was removed from Netflix after the backlash, the old one is forever stuck in a out of print DVD set.

:uhh:

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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:40 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Meanwhile here in Italy we are still without any dub after months. The new one was removed from Netflix after the backlash, the old one is forever stuck in a out of print DVD set.

:uhh:


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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby 天使 | Nyo | 天使 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:01 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Netflix is beholden to khara, who have no obligations to anyone but khara. And khara has every right to look out for their own interests, as opposed to those of fans who give an outdated adaptation priority over THE ORIGINAL WORK.

I have no tolerance for the ADV dub. It creates confusion about the work in a very predictable manner. I cannot tell you how many times I've talked to fans who betray which version they watched simply by the weird ideas they have about what is said in the show and what the characters are like. People should NOT have to do research to find out where the adaptation they watched went wrong -- they should just watch a loyal version in the first place. Are you guys fans of EVA, or fans of ADV & Mange Entertainment's VERSION of Eva? The extent of the loyalty and apologetics really makes me wonder sometimes. Maintaining the distinction between the work and some localization company's muddled old interpretation of that work is important, as the recent social media brouhaha over episode 24 dialogue "changes" demonstrates. As a proponent of the actual show that Anno et al. created, I am not going to keep quiet about the limitations and outright failures of the old dub just so you guys can feel less insecure in your preferences. If you're an actual fan of something, you accept it warts and all, and you don't need outside validation that your preference is "correct".


100% agreed. The show should be straightforward and easy to understand while still having all of its brilliance in deep, brilliant, writing and actual identity intact. For me personally, I just like the dub and sub for what they are. We want the best versions possible of a work to be remembered, not someone's weird, incorrect (technically) version of a show. It's also got some really stupid changes to the sound design, which bothers the heck out of me when I watch it (examples: Misato shooting the [Seele? I think] soldiers and the echo effect they added when Shinji and Rei representing all of mankind are talking about letting everyone return to their original forms.) :irked: People should just like whatever they want and still be aware of "the other side of the Eva coin" if you will. ADV isn't perfect, and that's obvious from the amount of stuff once again *cough* GoatJesus *cough* pointed out in his "mistranslations of Eva" video. I think we should all just accept that both versions exist as they are and that both the subs and dubs of this anime (and most animes with both dub and subs in general) will have their defenders and haters, that's just the way things are.

As for all the stupid stuff I said with the dub and sub translation stuff, that's entirely my fault on me not researching anything (and also I guess being biased because my first anime was Black Butler in Dub on Netflix YEARS ago, like 2010/2011 or so.) I guess that's just what I'm used to (but I definitely am aware of the flack dub watchers get from sub watchers these days, like, it's kinda ridiculous honestly. :shakehead: )

But remember, no matter which version we watch...we still get our Shinji X Kaworu moments! :love:
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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:21 am

View Original Post天使 | Nyo | 天使 wrote: (but I definitely am aware of the flack dub watchers get from sub watchers these days, like, it's kinda ridiculous honestly. :shakehead: )


Water off a duck's back, bro. If someone gives you hate because of what version you like, then they're not worth your time. Hasta la vista, Baby.
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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:41 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Netflix is beholden to khara, who have no obligations to anyone but khara. And khara has every right to look out for their own interests, as opposed to those of fans who give an outdated adaptation priority over THE ORIGINAL WORK.

I have no tolerance for the ADV dub. It creates confusion about the work in a very predictable manner. I cannot tell you how many times I've talked to fans who betray which version they watched simply by the weird ideas they have about what is said in the show and what the characters are like. People should NOT have to do research to find out where the adaptation they watched went wrong -- they should just watch a loyal version in the first place. Are you guys fans of EVA, or fans of ADV & Mange Entertainment's VERSION of Eva? The extent of the loyalty and apologetics really makes me wonder sometimes. Maintaining the distinction between the work and some localization company's muddled old interpretation of that work is important, as the recent social media brouhaha over episode 24 dialogue "changes" demonstrates. As a proponent of the actual show that Anno et al. created, I am not going to keep quiet about the limitations and outright failures of the old dub just so you guys can feel less insecure in your preferences. If you're an actual fan of something, you accept it warts and all, and you don't need outside validation that your preference is "correct".


I'm curious do you find the Platinum subtitles equally as muddled? I'm just wondering how my own views on Eva might have been influenced! Outright failure is just so strong I'm wondering how you view the subtitles as well. I watched the sub on Netflix and only noticed a handful of differences that helped me understand the show differently, Shinji's plugsuit after the Zeruel fight being the big one. Should I recommend to my friends who watched Platinum subbed to check out Netflix Eva subs because it will help them understand the show better? Or just to my friends who only watched dubbed stuff that the better dub exists now?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:51 pm

I love Evangelion.

I am a fan of Amanda Winn Lee’s dub of End of Evangelion.

I don’t expect (nor do I ever want) my love of Eva to be compromised by my fanatical interests in bad English dubs of foreign films.

We can like the older dubs without saying that the more accurate translations ruin the show. They were, after all, two separate productions anyway. The sooner we realize and internalize the fact that the English dubs were produced as a separate production process from the production of the Japanese show, the happier we all will be.
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:53 pm

View Original PostMuscleRobo wrote:I'm curious do you find the Platinum subtitles equally as muddled? I'm just wondering how my own views on Eva might have been influenced! Outright failure is just so strong I'm wondering how you view the subtitles as well. I watched the sub on Netflix and only noticed a handful of differences that helped me understand the show differently, Shinji's plugsuit after the Zeruel fight being the big one. Should I recommend to my friends who watched Platinum subbed to check out Netflix Eva subs because it will help them understand the show better? Or just to my friends who only watched dubbed stuff that the better dub exists now?


Platinum subs are fine for the most part, so the new Khara subs will hardly change all that much for their interpretation. It's just that the Khara subs are even better. There were many notorious mistakes in the ADV localizations which are now fixed, most of all in EoE (which was made by Manga Entertainment but retained largely the same staff). The difference when comparing the dubs is *enormous* though. Here Gendo's VA saying the dub was actually based off fan translations: thread/19057/GoatJesus-Interviews-Tristan-MacAvery-Gendos-Dub-Actor-NGE/

GoatJesus also did make a video on this specifically, as previously mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyL3cGV6JDY

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Postby Reichu » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:12 am

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Platinum subs are fine for the most part, so the new Khara subs will hardly change all that much for their interpretation. It's just that the Khara subs are even better. There were many notorious mistakes in the ADV localizations which are now fixed, most of all in EoE (which was made by Manga Entertainment but retained largely the same staff).

Yeah, uh, dude, using something you yourself admit isn't by ADV as an example of where the ADV localizations ESPECIALLY went wrong, in turn as an example of how the Dansubs are supposedly better than Platinum, doesn't make ANY damn sense. There is no EoE Platinum, and as I tend to repeat like a broken record, the Platinum subtitles are extremely faithful. They are FAR more literal than the Dansubs (for which it's become some kind of bizarre meme to claim the same, despite Dan's translation not being "literal" at all), and there's only one actual error I can recall off the top of my head (which the Dansubs retain). The "notorious mistakes" are not from Platinum, but from Genesis and Collection. Platinum FIXED all those mistakes years and years ago.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:03 pm

What is that one error from the Platinum Subs, by the by? Is there a list somewhere to which you can link? If not, no biggie.

BTW, the Manga Ent. subs are most certainly awful, and I agree that they are not to be confused with the ADV Platinum subs. I remember re-watching EoE with some friends of mine with some more accurate subs (I think from that Eva Otaku site?), and it changed everything for the better. We had all seen the Manga subs before and felt more confused than anything else. With the Eva Otaku subs, everything felt a whole lot better. No other way I can really describe it without side-by-side comparing the two translations, but we felt more grounded as a result of experiencing a better translation of EoE.

I honestly have no idea how the Dansubs for EoE compare to either the Manga or the Eva Otaku(?) translations, so some input would be nice. I fear that VLC on MacBook Pro insists on delivering jumbled 5.1 surround sound outputs regardless of my system calibrations, so I’ve only been able to experience the subbed film in 2.0 stereo. If the Dansubs of EoE are at least on par with ADV’s fixes for the TV series (or Eva Otaku’s translations for EoE), then I could finally easily watch the 5.1 mix properly without sacrificing translational fidelity.

(I’ve literally no understanding of the Japanese language in any form, so I’m no authority on what’s accurate or not. But I know what I felt watching non-Manga translations, and it was a whole lot better than what I’m used to with the Manga subs.)
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:55 pm

Well okay, I am using them somewhat interchangeably here and I should not do that. Though I think we can all agree on the both dubs. Don't recall if the DC dubs for 21-24 were much better though.

Something interesting to note though is that even today, or at least mostly up until the Netflix release, people still watched Eva with fansubs a lot, if they torrent-ed it or watched on Kissanime or something. Which is why when the Dansubs were fist made available to the public, people were sometimes comparing it to mistakes present in those fansubs ("koi/koui" is just one of the many examples), claiming it was "the original".

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:53 pm

.
Last edited by SawItAtAge10 on Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby robersora » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:41 pm

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:And you say one shouldn't have to do external research to understand/grasp a show? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :rofl:


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Postby pwhodges » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:11 am

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:And of course, I'll be BANNED for life for saying these things, even though, it's the only TRUE AND REAL time I've ever been "offensive" on these forums! And doing so, will only PROVE my point about being silenced!

Angling for martyrdom proves nothing.

And of course there are differing views over the translations; even the aims of translators vary (literalness vs naturalness, for instance), so it's unavoidable. And people's views of the acting vary according to their perceptions of the characters. So what do you think is the benefit of insulting someone who happens to take a different view from you on these things?

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:the place seems to have been overrun by a few "overzealous individuals"

Being "overrun" by one of the founders is a curious take on it.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:50 pm

All this really does is simply prove that Evangelion discussions can almost as complex (and as heated) as Biblical theological discussions. The only difference is that the stakes aren’t as high for the Eva fans as they are for theologians.
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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:28 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:All this really does is simply prove that Evangelion discussions can almost as complex (and as heated) as Biblical theological discussions. The only difference is that the stakes aren’t as high for the Eva fans as they are for theologians.


I love that mental image. I'm probably going to spend the rest of the day figuring out who here is the Orthodox, who's Catholic/Protestant/etc.
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Postby Blockio » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:09 pm

View Original PostMirrorUniverseAsuka wrote:I love that mental image. I'm probably going to spend the rest of the day figuring out who here is the Orthodox, who's Catholic/Protestant/etc.

I shall adopt this mental image as well, it really is too hilarious not to
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Postby wisdom.courage.power » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:14 pm

This thread is just making me want to watch the new release even more, just to see what the fuss is about. I'll try to go in with an open mind.

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Postby 天使 | Nyo | 天使 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:31 am

View Original Postwisdom.courage.power wrote:This thread is just making me want to watch the new release even more, just to see what the fuss is about. I'll try to go in with an open mind.


The open mind part is a must. There's a lot to unpack here...much more than all of Shinji's boxes for sure. (You'll probably get that reference once you watch the show.) :lol:
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:14 pm

Anyone know what this says in Japanese?

https://twitter.com/PRINCESALDES/status/1216360192075534342?s=19
It's from episode 20.
The Spanish subs say it was an attack by a cult.
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