Netflix Release General Discussion

For talking about everything else Evangelion: from the various manga and video games to merchandising and video/audio releases.

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:30 am

I'm seeing takes that Khara's translator is a literal Pedophile Nazi for liking Girls und Panzer art. We're really getting to experience what it would be like if Evangelion came out in 2019 at this point.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:36 am

That's a bit of an extreme take on part of the accusers lol

But Evangelion becoming available every decade or so does subject it to the zeitgeist, thereby inviting new interpretations (separate from what is being leveled at Khara's translator). Keeps things interesting.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:47 pm

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:That's a bit of an extreme take on part of the accusers lol

But Evangelion becoming available every decade or so does subject it to the zeitgeist, thereby inviting new interpretations (separate from what is being leveled at Khara's translator). Keeps things interesting.


I saw one really dumb article trying to tie Eva's themes (poorly) to our current US/Geo political climate and the president SMH

But, read what you wrote up above and having struggled with my own sexuality the whole thing with Kaworu bothers me a great deal as far what that expression was in the first dub I saw (first English one) and how it made me feel seeing that on screen in such an apparently honest way as a kid.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby robersora » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:20 pm

It's interesting, that most articles on Evangelion seem to focus on the meta instead of the text itself. This is kinda new, but maybe to be expected.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:27 pm

I am not gonna delve too deep into individual interpretations, and I think plenty of people here know mine. What I do think I can say is that the new text is just much closer to how the show is actually written, and there is an increasing amount of evidence that Khara themselves have made this as a deliberate effort, which I have covered in my article. You can still perfectly interpret "like" as "like-like", or friendship, or intimacy, or platonic or godly love much like people's interpretations over the years wildly varied even when the ADV DVD subs and dubs used "love", though the VHS sub used "like". I don't see how the changes really invalidate this or that interpretation, they just preserve the ambiguity in the actual text. We all know there are were a lot of mistakes with the ADV localization, and this has bugged hardcore Eva fans for years.

As far as I can gather, Japanese Twitter seems to almost universally agree with the changes. For instance, it seems Dan has fixed all of these:

https://youtu.be/dyL3cGV6JDY

We have to remember, are we interpreting Eva or an adaptation of Eva that can introduce its own problems? As an example, this guy here, an otherwise great channel, did an analysis of EoE and completely change his interpretation because of a couple of words mistranslated by some fansub he watched the movie with. He concluded that Shinji had "rejected happiness", but then he thinks the movie is being inconsistent afterwards. Funny, huh?

https://youtu.be/NAMAwErYRpQ

Regardless of all this, let us remember how Anno remains a troll and still invites everyone to interpret things by themselves. In fact, Dan has provided us with a translation of a part of Schizo/Parano. Gwern might be interested...

Anno: [Eva is a work] where the remaining process [of completing the work] is in the hands of the audience. I place strong emphasis in that relationship. After you get to a certain point, I want them to make their own judgment. There are portions where things are left ambiguous, so it all depends on how you view [and judge it for yourself.] I think the character of the person [e.g. a personality] reveals itself in that process. [Eva is a work] where if ten people watch it, not all of the ten will [compliment] it. In that sense, it’s very Japanese.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:22 am

View Original PostMuscleRobo wrote:I'm seeing takes that Khara's translator is a literal Pedophile Nazi for liking Girls und Panzer art. We're really getting to experience what it would be like if Evangelion came out in 2019 at this point.

What do you know, here's another:
*removed*
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Last edited by BlueBasilisk on Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:22 am

Someone on the Internet doesn't know what they're talking about? Well that's a shocker. I don't think it's worth giving this stuff acknowledgment by sharing it. Bad attention is still attention.

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:59 am

You know, you're right. I edited my previous post to remove it. :thumbsup:
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby pearisdriving » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:05 am

I think ignoring all agenda flavored twitter drama on the subject is a good idea. Especially those that don't even have triple digit engagement stats that will just die off forgotten as minor circlejerks

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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:40 am

View Original Postpearisdriving wrote:I think ignoring all agenda flavored twitter drama on the subject is a good idea. Especially those that don't even have triple digit engagement stats that will just die off forgotten as minor circlejerks

And that is why I stopped following the Evangelion Subreddit after an whooping 3 days...
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:17 pm

The reddit is being pretty cool about this, actually. In fact, while in the first day I saw a lot of people complaining about this that I never saw on the reddit before, the following day there was just one thread about this and lots of people began to understand this is Khara's translation, not Netflix's. On Tuesday there was the last thread about this, and it was about the supposedly increased Asushin romance. Lots of people approved this and defended it as the Khara translation, again. Perhaps because it was Asushin, but who knows.

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:22 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote: On Tuesday there was the last thread about this, and it was about the supposedly increased Asushin romance. Lots of people approved this and defended it as the Khara translation, again. Perhaps because it was Asushin, but who knows.


To be fair, it did seem a bit hypocritical seeing as there's this whole tug of war over Kaworu's shower scene line and then during the coffee/table scene with Asuka and Shinji he straight says he wants to be with her forever when the old dub wasn't;t nearly as specific...I say hypocritical because the entire supposed intent had to do with "ambiguity."
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Postby Joseki » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:25 pm

I think the ambiguity there is about how much Shinji really means what he's saying and how much is just a way to have Asuka help him.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:27 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I think the ambiguity there is about how much Shinji really means what he's saying and how much is just a way to have Asuka help him.


That just seems like a double standard. If that's the case then Kaworu could've still have said "I love you" and we could extrapolate the "ambiguity" of whether he meant it of his entire interaction is just another form of an angel attack.

You're talking about entirely two different things here. One has to do with meaning while the other has to do with intent.
FROM EVANGELION:
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"I'm saying that I love you."

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby eldomtom2 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:48 pm

Man, the mood has flipped. Bear in mind that while Kanemitsu is employed by khara, we have no idea of the extent to which he ailased with Anno & Co, nor their degree of interest in the translation. There is also an argument to be made about the accuracy of any opinions made over twenty years after series production ended. Anno has shown a remarkable ability to change his mind on matters - see how quickly he starts condemning the TV ending as an unhappy one where Shinji doesn't grow! - so the specter of intentional rewrites has to be considered at least.

There is also no mention in the wiki article of how other instances of suki were translated, most infamously in the final scene of episode 26.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby johnnysasaki » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:54 pm

View Original PostMuscleRobo wrote:I'm seeing takes that Khara's translator is a literal Pedophile Nazi for liking Girls und Panzer art. We're really getting to experience what it would be like if Evangelion came out in 2019 at this point.


these people are digging out his twitter history to try and ruin his life for being "homophobic",and they are calling him a child porn apologist for liking Strike Witches and Girls und Panzer(ironically by the people who fantasize two 14 year old boys making out...) and for believing that hentai and any overall depictions of underage nudity in manga and anime should not be criminalized as child porn(which I agree,because it doesn't involve actual real life children.).
I got blocked by an youtuber named Suede for saying that judging someone as pedophile for liking anime with underage nudity like Strike Witches is as logical as judging someone as a psycopathic murderer for killing people in GTA or Mortal Kombat.He said it's not the same thing and blocked me.Also,trying to argue that on ANN forums is useless because they will delete your posts if they don't agree with your opinions.So much for accepting different opinions,huh?

In other news,Netflix removed the Italian dub and has announced they will re-do it from the scratch(like they did to the english dub of AICO,whose original dub was done in Florida by mostly native Portuguese and Spanish speakers who are mostly infamous for producing the cheapest Portuguese and Spanish dubs of movies,series and cartoons for the Latin American market,with the expected results from such situation...) because OH GOD THAT DUB WAS A TOTAL DISASTER!I know nothing of Italian,but from what I heard from fans,it was THAT bad.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:42 am

View Original Postjohnnysasaki wrote:In other news,Netflix removed the Italian dub and has announced they will re-do it from the scratch
The /a/ thread on the subject (archive link) is blaming an eccentric translation, for both dub and sub. The eccentric translator is Italian in this case, but appears to have produced something that's overly literal in syntax and with a "foresoothely" vocabulary, thus ends up incomprehensible.
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:31 am

I think "love" is a much stronger word in English, whereas "like" captures the same ambiguity as "suki". And the old dub did say he wanted to stay with her forever, just phrased slightly differently.

As for the stuff eldomtom mentioned... I think you're overblowing this. When DID Anno say EoTV was perfectly alright in the first place, without EoE to at least thematically complement it? EoTV was quite simply a rushed and incomplete ending. It's still admirable, but it's not exactly what Anno wanted to do either. EoE sends pretty much the same message but in a far more fully realised manner.

Regardless, although we can't know for certain, the evidence that I could find for the wiki article seems to point out they have at least kept much closer oversight on this re-release than they ever did with ADV.

She might not be the best of sources, but Tiffany Grant says in her FB group that *nothing* at Khara happens without Anno's consent and direction, which wasn't the case at Gainax. Some other evidence might back this, like that fact that Anno actually owns Khara and actually acts as producer. He isn't subordinate to any corporate decisions (though he still has other producers on his level IIRC) or network pressure. I doubt Anno has personally chosen to discard Tiffany as Asuka like she seems to be implying, but it's not impossible he is paying more attention to Eva's international attention. This or Khara in some sense, like their international department.

Some old threads, mostly by Numbers-kun detail all this but I'm not gonna look for them now.
Last edited by FelipeFritschF on Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:12 am

BTW, should we really keep the Netflix Release General and Netflix Dub threads separate? Seems like everyone is talking about both in both threads pretty interchangeably.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby eldomtom2 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:21 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:As for the stuff eldomtom mentioned... I think you're overblowing this. When DID Anno say EoTV was perfectly alright in the first place, without EoE to at least thematically complement it? EoTV was quite simply a rushed and incomplete ending. It's still admirable, but it's not exactly what Anno wanted to do either. EoE sends pretty much the same message but in a far more fully realised manner.

Oh no. What bullshit is this? Anno has repeatedly stated that EoTV reflected who he was when he made it, and EoE does the same. And his criticisms are definitely not due to "incompleteness" - remember that 26 came out pretty much as intended - but due to fundamental plot content. They are not the same message. They cannot be.


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