Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri May 31, 2019 11:12 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:One of the things all the post T-2 movies lack is a claustrophobic horror vibe. This one doesn’t look to have it either.


Yeah I think this is because the way war is portrayed in the past flash back in T1/T2 its really serious as is the nuclear bomb drop scene in Sarah's dreams and the there wasn't any macho bullshit like look at us we are so great which really hurts the films that follow because you don't get this true sense of dread that humans are under the thumb. Like the biggest joke in genisys is Kyle Reese having a six pack and being buff (Who ever thought this was a good idea even for fan service needs educating on the universe's lore) when in the oringal its clear everyone was starving and there raids sometimes failed really miserably and those who leap back in time suffer from Ptsd.

That to me is what really hurt the last three films there just not grounded in the sense of reality, you don't feel the stakes you don't care for the suffering because its such a thin layered view of war and wars impacts, where as the T1 feels like it has WW1/WW2 vibes while T2 shows a nuclear drop for what it really is a terrible killer that kills in seconds and is truly terrifying.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby movieartman » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:21 am

Full new trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxy8udgWRmo
Alternate R-Rated trailer with nudity - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdivOFoF8-g

Notably better then the first teaser IMO. More appropriate music.
The villain Terminator had a good charismatic line while previously he seemed flat to me.
Shot of the T-800s rising out of the water was cool.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Zoop » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:48 am

What I Miss about Terminator, is how the machines are kinda "dumb" but driven, focussed to a singular task.
Real killer machines that you set loose on a target, and you just wait while it searches and destroys.
T2 already diverted a bit from this by giving arnie a bit more personality, but the level at which they did it was just enough. Awkwardly trying to learn subtle human behaviors, but ultimately never be good at it (isn't made for it).
T3 followed up on that good enough, the TX was also a focussed killerbot, but maybe a bit too scifi.

Everything else, tho? They constantly try to humanize the machines, make human-machine hybrids, or make them act more like humans. Maybe its a logical evolution in trying to make better infiltrators, but I don't like it all. And it they arent humanized, they get ridiculous scifi-level tech. t-1000 was really scifi enough.

I like my killerbots (whether they are they goodguys or not) to be simpleminded and dumb (makes em more scary, imo).
I don't like what I've seen in this trailer :( not going to see it in cinema i suppose.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:44 am

Not to mention what it does to the timeline. Exactly when did Skynet invent nanobot colony Terminators?
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Zoop » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:44 am

Exactly, most movies have flashforwards about the future, mostly showing HK's and T1's, some are about the future, and also prominently feature these "dumb" bots. But they do manage to send highly advanced alien-tech-esque scifi back to the past? When and where did those get developed?

Oh, right, Alternate Universe, that explains everything -_-; *groan*
I get that the subject is inevitable when messing with time travel, but it's also so very cheap.
I'd rather see it in a Steins;Gate kind of way rather than an excuse to completely ignore the other movies.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:07 pm

Personally, I'm looking forward to Dark Fate. I feel like the story is right where it needs to be IF they really did successfully kill off SkyNet in T2. What we have in dark Fate then is a new AI that sort of popped up organically via regular human tech advancement. And, we have a war that has been pushed back further into the future...I'm thinking the 2040s, so that the "present" day is 2020.

The T-800 we see would be a remnant that's been displaced from that old bygone 2029 that no longer exists, he can still exist because he apparently arrived in 1995 (T2) BEFORE the changes were implemented to prevent the 1997 JD.

This goes off what James Cameron said about there only being a singular timeline. He said there are no tangents or alternate timelines as that would cheapen the stakes.

That means then:

1) The Past Immutable, it can not be altered.
2) The future can be changed from the perspective of the "present."

This logic is the bets way for everything to make sense, even in just T1 and T2's context. And it allows fro Dark Fate's plot as well.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:05 am

View Original PostZoop wrote:Exactly, most movies have flashforwards about the future, mostly showing HK's and T1's, some are about the future, and also prominently feature these "dumb" bots. But they do manage to send highly advanced alien-tech-esque scifi back to the past? When and where did those get developed?

While I feel as though I must point out that technology doesn’t progress in a linear fashion, therefore rendering such nitpicks as being based in arbitrary standards, I really don’t care about this movie enough to defend it. Like, my questions about this universe deal more with “Can anyone make this universe interesting again please? I’d like to care about these movies again, but I don’t.”

Honestly, I think Terminator movies are past their expiration date. The main underlying commentary in the first two was that new/future technology is unknown and therefore scary and potentially dangerous. Now that we’re living in the future of at least the first two (the good ones), none of those ideas seem as scary to us anymore. A new movie in the style of Terminator would probably select a different subject to deconstruct all together.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:39 am

They need to focus the movies and start making them legitimately about time travel and explore it as a science fiction concept.

The last... what, four new scripts? Have all been basically "Look how cool this new terminator is" and it doesn't carry the movie.

Dollars to donuts the most interesting thing in the new one will be the concept of a t-1000 riding around as fake skin on an endoskeleton and it'll get tired in five minutes.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:23 am

Was the trailer even five minutes? Because it's already tired.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:54 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:They need to focus the movies and start making them legitimately about time travel and explore it as a science fiction concept.


They legit did that with Geinsys by leaning heavily on time travel stuff as part of the bigger story they were telling and it just ended up being a convoluted mess. If anything, they should move further away from it and delve deeper into just having a good character driven story.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:58 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote: The main underlying commentary in the first two was that new/future technology is unknown and therefore scary and potentially dangerous.


That's inaccurate. The real commentary underlying the first two actually had more to do with anxieties stemming from the Regan Era politics of the Cold War and nuclear fears. The time travel and tech stuff incidental to the bigger message there about the human race's tenacity for destroying ourselves. The same is true with this new one but there is a social commentary on tech usage as it's implied that the new AI threat, Legion doesn't go full nuclear like Skynet did to wipe us out. Instead, it would seem that it pulls a Y2K type of thing with massive grid shut down to basically paralyze human society based on our tech dependency. And then, when we'r vulnerable they send their brand of terminators and initiate a war.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Zoop » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:42 am

I must say, that does sound interesting.

I think this outlines the problem with the original Terminator franchise. The first 2 movies were fine, the rest just overdoes it. If skynet could easily nuke the planet, then why bother sending infiltrators into camps? Just drop another nuke on them.

The story is simple enough to carry the first 2 movies, but if they keep dragging it out, the story/setting makes less and less sense.

So, leaving skynet for what it is and introduce a new enemy, with different motives / methods, might just make the story interesting again. It would also be interesting if had a motive other than just "kill all humans".

Anyway, still not going to see it in cinema, sounds like a perfect rainy sunday afternoon kind of movie.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:54 pm

From the Star Wars topic:

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:That was the reason I couldn't bring myself to sit through it, like its bad enough seeing kids die on screen (Outside of horror) but he was a character which I grew up with he was a character I watched grow in the second movie and I just didn't want to watch him get gunned down for whatever reason even if its a butterfly effect idea. Also, there was a lot of talk about Connars character basically saying to the female lead who will be the new leader and mistakenly thinking that she is only important due to being pregnant (Or at least Sarah thinks she is) and only saying you're important because of who you are carrying the next male leader.

Now I get this is a direct stab at 80's/90's film treatment of women in film but to me, this feels like such a misjudged slap to the viewers face because what made T1/T2 brilliant in there time frames was the shattering of this mould and giving female characters better presence and stopping them being damsels in distress or girlfriends who do nothing and turning them into badass's who could rival their male counterparts like as a young teen watching that really mattered to me as did Ripley in Alien and Aliens which also busted the mould.

Its made very clear that John Connar learns everything from Sarah going forward so she is not a walking womb with no importance she will be his mentor, teacher his idol and even when she's gone he still keeps her photo even giving it up for Kyle Reese to keep even though it may be the only one he has and knowing that this man will be his dad and he has to send him forward knowing he won't be born.


Agreed. It was a shallow, meaningless jab that was wrong by the fact that every future version of John Connor holds reverence for his mother in some way, and he is alive and able to win the war because of her. I don't think it is a delusion of Sarah's character because the reward we're supposed to take from this is that the new prodigy kid is the saviour rather than any children she may have. That coupled with a nearly all-female cast makes it look like a misguided feminist direction, and I'm inclined to think that too. Whoever wrote the script had a lesson they could have imparted from the womb rambling, which was that even as a mother you have arguably the most important role in this kid's life and you will ultimately dictate it by being a good mother to them. However, they ignored that and went with something completely obnoxious and disrespectful to the original films.

I like the character of Sarah Connor - and I'm doing my best not to throw in a paragraph just to gush about the brilliance of her writing in T2 - but John Connor is her other half. People were not just excited to see Linda Hamilton return in Dark Fate only so she could kick ass and chew bubblegum; they were excited to see the mother-son dynamic between herself and John that they were robbed of in the other sequels, and see them work together to stop Judgement Day. Dark Fate abandons that notion and tells you to root for Jane Connor instead; it's transparent and disappointing.

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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:18 pm

View Original PostGazdakka Gizbang wrote:From the Star Wars topic:



Agreed. It was a shallow, meaningless jab that was wrong by the fact that every future version of John Connor holds reverence for his mother in some way, and he is alive and able to win the war because of her. I don't think it is a delusion of Sarah's character because the reward we're supposed to take from this is that the new prodigy kid is the saviour rather than any children she may have. That coupled with a nearly all-female cast makes it look like a misguided feminist direction, and I'm inclined to think that too. Whoever wrote the script had a lesson they could have imparted from the womb rambling, which was that even as a mother you have arguably the most important role in this kid's life and you will ultimately dictate it by being a good mother to them. However, they ignored that and went with something completely obnoxious and disrespectful to the original films.

I like the character of Sarah Connor - and I'm doing my best not to throw in a paragraph just to gush about the brilliance of her writing in T2 - but John Connor is her other half. People were not just excited to see Linda Hamilton return in Dark Fate only so she could kick ass and chew bubblegum; they were excited to see the mother-son dynamic between herself and John that they were robbed of in the other sequels, and see them work together to stop Judgement Day. Dark Fate abandons that notion and tells you to root for Jane Connor instead; it's transparent and disappointing.


In my view, the better scenario would have been to make the cast 50/50 gender and turn the new leader rebel character into his wife just a different version from the T3 version due to altered timeline since by default the butterfly effect can change your look and appearance even your ethnic origin and place of birth and have older Connor come in and have everyone fighting including the two terminator versions and they could have said the female terminator was, in fact, a rebel in her own time line along with Arnold's characters and you could have even said not all models agree with Skynet's ethics (I refuse to use its new name) or have turned their learning chips on and are becoming too human from being active to long and are questioning there fate and why there even part of this war just like how in the classic V series, not all the lizards agreed with making humans lunch meat. Then have this whole cast kick-ass and give the characters more meaningful payoff.
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Re: Tim Miller's Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:21 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:In my view, the better scenario would have been to make the cast 50/50 gender and turn the new leader rebel character into his wife just a different version from the T3 version due to altered timeline since by default the butterfly effect can change your look and appearance even your ethnic origin and place of birth and have older Connor come in and have everyone fighting including the two terminator versions and they could have said the female terminator was, in fact, a rebel in her own time line along with Arnold's characters and you could have even said not all models agree with Skynet's ethics (I refuse to use its new name) or have turned their learning chips on and are becoming too human from being active to long and are questioning there fate and why there even part of this war just like how in the classic V series, not all the lizards agreed with making humans lunch meat. Then have this whole cast kick-ass and give the characters more meaningful payoff.


Rebel wife could work, though it might be better served without free-thinking cyborgs. The idea that Carl rebelled after killing John was already dubious from my perspective.

If it's a time-travel plot, I would be happier with no rebel ally at all, to be honest. John and Sarah being on their own facing a Terminator - which could even be as simple as another T-800 - would have worked as a film that doesn't have to keep upping the ante. The design they had in Dark Fate wasn't implicitly terrible either. More cast could be dealt out whichever way you like, I think most people would be satisfied as long as Sarah and John are the centrepiece and you stick with sensible choices.

If that's not the case, a story counting down to Judgement Day or an early stage of the Future War where Sarah is alive could have also worked. Salvation - for all its failures - was the best sequel film for presenting a refreshing premise, even if the Kyle Reese arc was a bad decision.


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