Kimochi Warui

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Postby Kaysow » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:21 am

きもちわるい...

OK, so what exactly is this fabled ambivalence in the last line that makes it so damned hard to translate properly? We know what it is she's trying to signify with it, that's been out in the open for quite some time now. But still I read how ambiguous and hard-to-translate this line is supposed to be. Should it be "Disgusting..." or "I feel sick"? Isn't that, ultimately, the same thing?

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Postby Szmitten » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:46 am

It would basically translated to "A phrase for a negative feeling (maybe emotion) which could imply physical or emotional nausea". This reflects it's context in EoE, and it's use in 22' during Asukas monologue.

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Postby Kaysow » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:06 am

Isn't "I feel sick" a perfect english equivalent then? What is is exactly that makes people think this line is so deep?

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Postby felineki » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:23 am

The wording isn't really what's ambiguous. "I feel sick" is basically a perfect equivalent. It's what's meant by it that is ambiguous. WHY does she feel sick? Etc., etc., etc.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:26 am

The single biggest difficulty with the line is hardcore A/S shippers.
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Postby Ornette » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:26 am

Why does she feel sick? (and it isn't morning sickness)

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Postby Reichu » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:31 am

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:The single biggest difficulty with the line is hardcore A/S shippers.

Why's that?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:18 pm

felineki wrote:The wording isn't really what's ambiguous. "I feel sick" is basically a perfect equivalent.


It could equally well be, pace Han Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this."

Reichu wrote:
ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:The single biggest difficulty with the line is hardcore A/S shippers.

Why's that?


Having to reconcile an expression of disgust, obviously aimed at Ikari-kun, with her supposedly having been wiped of all the bile she was expressing towards him just a little while before.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:24 pm

On another theard page, I wrote:Anyway, I knew it meant feeling and bad but I just wanted to see what you had to say BECAUSE of the fact it can translate in so many ways:
1: "I feel sick." ~Shinji. 12: "I'd feel bad if I'd stay indebted to you." ~Asuka. 22': "It makes me sick." ~Asuka. 26': "How disgusting." ~Asuka.


I'll probably add more to this later.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:13 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:
Reichu wrote:
ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:The single biggest difficulty with the line is hardcore A/S shippers.

Why's that?

Having to reconcile an expression of disgust, obviously aimed at Ikari-kun, with her supposedly having been wiped of all the bile she was expressing towards him just a little while before.

Anyone expecting such a complete 180 of Asuka's personality is an idiot. But speaking of reconciling how about making sense of:
Asuka:
Idiot! I know about your jerk-off fantasies of me.
Do it again like usual... I'll even stand here and watch.If you can't be all mine, then I don't need you!

And then there's the fact that he NEVER apologized for it. How the hell did he not apologize? He once apologized for apologizing but didn't see the need to apologize for that? WTF?

What happened in instrumentality is what makes the whole thing confusing as hell.

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Postby Szmitten » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:58 pm

"Yo man, what happened in instrumentality STAYS in instrumentality."

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Postby InvaderRen » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:18 pm

Szmitten wrote:"Yo man, what happened in instrumentality STAYS in instrumentality."


ROFL

well guys, the meaning steen from the phrasing. As Reichu could probably tell you, Japanese is a subject-drop language.
so the two words, DIRECTLY translanted is:

気持ち==> feeling
AND
悪い ==> bad, negative

Note the lack of a subject in that sentence, and if i remember right, that was how Anno intended it to be. this ambiguity allows
I feel sick
you sick
disgusting
this is sick
etc.

i think you get the point...

for my opinion, i think "How disgusting" fits the scene the best. some1 may have to check that tho..

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Postby Kaysow » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:48 pm

If it's subjectless, then she might as well feel bad aboot it. I just don't think a line warrants that much attention. Is it really that important? I mean, kamoon.

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Postby BobBQ » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:06 am

Maybe it's only important because stupid people attached stupid interpretations to it.

Morning sickness, my foot.

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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:43 am

Kaysow wrote:I just don't think a line warrants that much attention.


B-BUT IT'S LIKE THE LAST LINE IN ALL OF EVANGELION!
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Postby cat42 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:47 am

Nope, it was the last line in all of Evangelion.

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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:51 am

cat42 wrote:Nope, it was the last line in all of Evangelion.


Smartass.
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Postby master0rolando » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:25 am

maybe she says it cuz she realises that shes stuck with him

...and as for Shinji not apologizing for the jerking thing...

i think Shinji doing it in the first place, and then together with that line, is supposed to be a cynical, finger point at boys in general...

cuz the truth is...when no one can see you or whatever, dudes jerk off...they jerk off over girls...if you think about it, thats EXACTLY what happened here...no one could have known really that he was doing that...

but of course...girls know, guys do it...and they know guys think about them when they do ["i know all about your jerk off fantasies about me"]...and i imagine theyd have the same accusatory thoughts like "Go ahead and do it like you always do"...and look down on it..."Ill even stand here and watch you"...is a very looking down thing to say...

its not like a guy is gonna come up to a girl and say "I thought about you when i jerked off, im sorry..."

i dont think she literally knew...it was just that pointed finger at all guys as a whole

....
.....
.........
EDIT: Oh before i forget... sorry MaggotMaster... :cry:

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:40 am

LMAO you guys are hilarious. Time to drop something else to think about into this discussion. The glare she gave him in I need you is the same glare she gave him in instrumentality when she shoved him to the ground and muttered "How pathetic". Shin-seiki noted this to a certain degree in the 10th post here:
http://www.anime-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11746&start=25

No Reichu I didn't go digging for that someone posted a link to an old thread over there which I found while searching for info on Rebuild.

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Postby jcmoorehead » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:07 am

I think the line has gotten all attention because as someones said it's the very last line people want to make it into something it isn't or want to find some secret meaning to it. The way I see it is Asuka has Shinji on top of her crying, aside from Shinji strangling her its the first thing she really see's and it is pretty disgusting.

It's just the fact that this line coupled with Shinji strangling her and then the fact that it just suddenly ends there makes it feel like it is going to have some extreme special meaning. I just think she's saying "How Disgusting" because Shinjis crying over her, I definitely don't buy the Morning Sickness argument I just think she's uttering it because whats happening would be pretty disgusting.

I mean lets face it, after the apocalypse it's not really the first thing you'd want to see. Maybe a cup of tea or something but people crying on top of you not really first choice for a lot of people.

As for the SxA thing, i'm an SxA fan and this line doesn't really sway my opinion in that because I don't think Asukas going to be saying "Oh Shinji I love you" straight after all of that, it'd be a gradual process.


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