The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:31 pm

First of all, thanks for your input.
And yes, I do think the (Silence) effect works better subtitled than with an overlay.
But that's just me preferring the Japanese Design, though I just use the English Design to be more consistent with the Perfect Collection VHS subs.
I haven't compared my English effect and the Japanese effect side-by-side yet since I don't have the Renewal Feature Film DVD.

Take a look at the MEGA link I Pm'd you.
Secondly, I haven't watched EoE for some time so I forgot the "Do you feel good?" text was over live-action footage rather than on a black background, which makes sense on why it should be subtitles.

However, I now PM'd you my subtitles and the Air overlay is a recreation of the Japanese version (black text on a white square on a black background) and I even used a similar font to thr original Air text (I specifically just took Times New Roman Bold and made it thinner, I also used Times New Roman Bold for the NGE logo).
I'm not sure what you think but my Air overlay is an okay recreation of the Japanese overlay.
It's not just a replacement of the Air title card with a more generic episode title like My Purest Heart for You.

Third, they use a "generic" font for the Japanese NGE logo as much as using the iconic one in the OP.
So, I think my Times New Roman Bold NGE logo works since said "generic" Japanese logo often accompanies the English logo.
And I don't know which font they used but I just used Times New Roman Bold for both the NGE logo and Air's title since it looks similar.

Fourth, Asuka's line has a double meaning referring to both what Shinji did in the beginning (feeling disgusted) and literally feeling sick (maybe due to morning sickness).
So, "How sickening..." is a better translation.
And, even if you did use "Disgusting..." instead, I think that line felt more complete with a How in the beginning of the line.

Finally. Yes, the Blu-ray box is worth buying for the movies alone.
It has three discs for the movies: the theatrical edition of Evangelion:Death and Rebirth, the theatrical edition of The End of Evangelion, and Revival of Evangelion (Death(true^2)/Air/My Purest Heart for You).
However, EoE had no changes in Revival except for the 5.1 remix.
If you are a purist for the original versions, the Blu-rays of the movies are great, and if you are a 100% purist, watch it with the 2.0 mix (with Dolby Pro Logic on) instead of the 5.1 mix)

P.S: Putting up my edit of your EoE subs on this thread would be pointless, since my second revision undos the the "Do you love me?" overlay (which also had a black background in my subs).
It only has four changes this time: the Times New Roman Bold NGE logo, the Air overlay, the English (Silence) overlay, and "How sickening...".

I can probably post screencaps this Sunday.

Again, I don't have the actual Renewal Film DVD (regular or DTS versions) so I can only use dummy video screenshots from Aegisub.

If I save more money, maybe I can buy the pre-Renewal Director's Cut DVDs, and the DTS Collector's Edition of the Feature Film DVD (since, even if the superior DTS track is a remix, at least it has fancier packaging and an option for the original 2.0 mix in Dolby).
Last edited by HARVEST on Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HARVEST
Adam
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Comparisons of my personal edit:
Neon Genesis Evangelion Theatrical Version
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

Air
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

(Silence)
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

And yes, (Silence) does have the effects like in the Japanese version.
I don't actually have the Renewal DVD of EoE so I can't compare it with the actual video.

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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:28 am

It's really cool that you're trying to help make this project better—but since you aren't using actual screenshots, you're comparing what people would see (your full-screen overlays) against something they would never realistically see (my subtitles without video). Since my subtitles are designed around the video, showing them without video is misleading.

A better comparison would be to compare three shots (in whichever order makes sense to you):
  • A raw screenshot (no subtitles or overlays).
  • A screenshot with my subtitles.
  • A screenshot with your full-screen overlays.

That way you would be making comparisons between shots that the viewer would actually see. Although for the (Silence) one, you would probably need to do a clip comparison since it's animated.

HARVEST wrote:I'm not sure what you think but my Air overlay is an okay recreation of the Japanese overlay.
It's not just a replacement of the Air title card with a more generic episode title like My Purest Heart for You.

There's enough unique artistic design with the "Air" title for me to be in favor of letting the original show and just subtitling it. I favor the original work whenever it's a practical and effective option, and I think in this case, it is. Same for the (Silence) shot too, although you did a good job mimicking the shrink, blur, and fade effects.

HARVEST wrote:Third, they use a "generic" font for the Japanese NGE logo as much as using the iconic one in the OP.
So, I think my Times New Roman Bold NGE logo works since said "generic" Japanese logo often accompanies the English logo.

My qualm is not that you're trying to mimic the logo, but that you're imposing it in a place where it isn't used in the original Japanese. In my eyes, that transcends adaptation and crosses into fan-edit territory. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it's not what this project is.

That said, I appreciate your intention to improve my work and that I hope you continue to participate, because several of your suggestions for the NGE subtitles I did (one of which is also applicable to this project) are very good ones that I've already integrated into the subtitles, as you will see in the next release! :thumbsup:

HARVEST wrote:Fourth, Asuka's line has a double meaning referring to both what Shinji did in the beginning (feeling disgusted) and literally feeling sick (maybe due to morning sickness).
So, "How sickening..." is a better translation.

First and foremost, "disgusting" is one of the definitions listed for 気持ち悪い on jisho.org, whereas "sickening" is not (same with Google Translate, for what that's worth).
http://jisho.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93& ... A%E3%81%84
https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/%E6 ... A%E3%81%84

Secondly, disgusting and sickening are almost the same thing. Both have a double meaning—both can be defined in terms of either psychological loathing or physiological nausea. The difference is that "disgusting" tends to be used more on the psychological side, while "sickening" tends to be used more on the physiological side. So the question then becomes:
Which definition is better suited for the scenario we're talking about? The one that favors the psychological side? Or the one that favors the physiological side?

I can't think of a strong argument for either one (aside from the above translations), but I feel like there's a slightly stronger argument in favor of the psychological definition, because of my answer to this question:
Based solely on what we know for certain about what has happened at this point in the story and what Asuka is experiencing at this moment, which type of reaction would you be more surprised to not see: a psychological reaction of some kind, or the physiological reaction of feeling sick?

I would say the physiological reaction of feeling sick is something that may or may not happen, but that a psychological reaction of some kind would most certainly happen. Dying horrifically (assuming she's able to remember it—she seems pretty out of it), going through Instrumentality, and being reborn only to find her world in ruin and a close peer of hers strangling her is most definitely enough to cause any number of psychological reactions (such as disgust), but not necessarily the physiological sensation of sickness. Basically, I would be shocked if someone were to go through this without a psychological reaction, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to go through this without feeling the physiological sensation of sickness.

As for pregnancy, that strikes me as a pretty wild conspiracy theory.

HARVEST wrote:And, even if you did use "Disgusting..." instead, I think that line felt more complete with a How in the beginning of the line.

I think this is your strongest point in this matter and it's also one I've considered myself. I originally dropped the word "how" from "how disgusting" because I felt that it adds a level of emphasis that surpasses what seems to be implied in the original Japanese. In other words, I thought it would be safer to err on the side of not embellishing. Although it's entirely possible there's some nuance to the Japanese phrase that is simply beyond me (and if anyone can expound on that, please do).

As for "how sickening," that doesn't quite sound like something a native English speaker would say in that moment. Close, but there's something a little off about it. I tried to strike a balance between the literal translation and the closest equivalent to what a native-English speaking person would say.

Again, I appreciate your input, it's just that I had reasons for making the decisions I made. But I welcome you and others to challenge my work by trying to come up with better solutions. Even though I have my reasons for choosing the translation I went with, I'm not set on it.

Does anyone have a different argument in favor of "sickening"? What about preceding it or "disgusting" with the word "how"?

HARVEST wrote:If I save more money, maybe I can buy the pre-Renewal Director's Cut DVDs, and the DTS Collector's Edition of the Feature Film DVD (since, even if the superior DTS track is a remix, at least it has fancier packaging and an option for the original 2.0 mix in Dolby).

The corresponding non-DTS release also has an option for stereo. Are you not aware of that? Or are you saying it's different somehow?
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation
Evangelion fan since 1996. Former Eva Mailing List member (late '90s).

HARVEST
Adam
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 am

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:The corresponding non-DTS release also has an option for stereo. Are you not aware of that? Or are you saying it's different somehow?

The Renewal Feature Filml DVDs have the original theatrical Dolby Stereo (or Dolby Surround) mix, whether it's the regular or the DTS release.
Regardless of which version you get, the stereo mixes are the original unaltered mixes, just turn on Dolby Pro Logic and enjoy the audio as it was originally shown in Japan back in '97.
I guess another reason why they added a Dolby Stereo option is because not all DVD players support and/or output DTS audio, so if it only had the DTS remix, it would be silent in some DVD players.
And because the Dolby Stereo mix is unaltered, and many purists would complain if it didn't have the unaltered mix.

The LPCM 2.0 track on the feature film Blu-rays are also the theatrical mixes, which is amazing.
And the Blu-rays for the Feature Films are also unaltered, unlike the TV series.

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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby somnium97 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:23 pm

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:
Thanks for the interest, but since the Director's Cut episodes can be integrated into the viewing experience without the narrative redundancy that Death has, I consider the DC episodes a higher priority. I've actually had something in the works for the DC episodes for quite sometime now, but it's been on the back burner: updates to both the NGE and EoE subtitles I made are coming before that. I'm more interested in nailing the essentials before tackling extras like Death. That having been said, there's a possibility I will get to doing Death subtitles one day—just don't hold your breath. It may be a long time, or it may be never. So I encourage you to take a stab at it yourself.


Sorry for reigniting this thread, but I was wondering whether or not your subtitles for the DC episodes have been released yet? I can't seem to find them anywhere, but I thought I might as well ask. Love your work btw, I've been rewatching NGE recently while comparing different sub releases and have decided that yours are by far the best, they are so much more eloquent and capture the mood far better than any others I've tried. Would be ideal to have a set for the DC episodes to go with the NGE and EoE ones. Cheers. ^_^

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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:40 am

Hey, no worries—the thread would have been reignited for the next update anyway. I haven't done the DCs, but if you want to incite their completion, you're doing the right thing by posting because that allows me to gauge interest levels. And I'm happy to hear you're enjoying these subs! :ting:
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation
Evangelion fan since 1996. Former Eva Mailing List member (late '90s).

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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:53 am

This project has been updated!

You can still use the same link in the initial post to download the new release, but here it is for convenience:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Flod29uaUE

More Accurate Names
  • NERV has been changed to Nerv.
  • MAGI has been changed to Magi.
  • SEELE has been changed to Seele.
  • Kaoru has been changed to Kaworu.

Thanks to Harvest for pointing out the correct spelling of Kaworu, and to Reichu for reminding me that his name is romanized during the synchronization test in episode 24, and in The End of Evangelion when the dummy plugs are inserted.

Spelled Out Episode Numbers in Titles
Episode numbers in titles from the TV series are now spelled out rather than being written in Arabic numerals. This is to represent the apparently unique choice to use archaic Kanji in the original Japanese titles of the TV series. A consequential bonus is that this also helps to further differentiate the TV episode titles from the movie episode titles.

Thanks to Harvest for bringing this issue to my attention, and to TheMelonMan for doing some cursory research.

Miscellaneous
  • I made a small handful of translation changes that you can see in the “Translation Changes” spreadsheet included in the download.
  • All ellipses have been corrected from three separate period characters (...) to the prefabricated ellipsis character (…).
  • I made a few capitalization changes.

AviSynth Scripts
  • I added a new AviSynth script that loads the embedded-overlays file using the AviSynth plugin VSFilter. This makes it much easier for you to embed graphical overlays into the video, which is highly recommended if you prefer the English Design for such overlays.
  • I removed an unnecessary color space conversion.

Edit:
If you downloaded this new release before Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 5:30pm Coordinated Universal Time, please re-download it. The core files are exactly the same, but I've fixed an error with the instructional files that could very well leave you confused if you intend on processing any video.
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation
Evangelion fan since 1996. Former Eva Mailing List member (late '90s).

somnium97
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby somnium97 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:06 am

Great work, thanks for doing what you do.


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