Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:56 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:But in any event GvK was not an improvement in that regard by any means. Replacing a flawed human story with no human story is no remedy, particularly when the monster fights are lacking as well.

I have to disagree, I thought the fights were pretty great and a huge improvement over KoTM whereas I actually got to see them in full force and hardly got cut away to whatever the humans were doing. In regards to the lack of human story, I'm not saying its wrong to want a good human story; but it's also sharing screen time in the same movie with a plot that literally goes:

SPOILER: Show
"And then the BIG MONKE jumps through a worm hole into the center of the Earth and gets a magic axe, and then the big monke goes to fight the big lizard, and then the big monke and the big lizard team up to fight the big robot evil lizard, and it shoots lasers out of its mouth, and has missiles on its shoulders, and a drill for a tail."


Any serious drama between the human cast is going to look really awkward next to a plot like that. At that point, I wouldn't be able to tell what the movie is going for. There's just enough plot to get these two to smack against each other like big toys; and in comparison to how this movie is received to how the other two were received, it seems to have worked much better.
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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby Natalie the Cat » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:08 am

I feel like at some point we're going to find out that...

SPOILER: Show
they had a faithful mechagodzilla design, but the studio made them replace it with that ugly hunk of shit because it was more "grounded" or some such nonsense

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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:46 am

View Original PostNatalie the Cat wrote:I feel like at some point we're going to find out that...

SPOILER: Show
they had a faithful mechagodzilla design, but the studio made them replace it with that ugly hunk of shit because it was more "grounded" or some such nonsense


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFDW1dsVa1Y

This review pointed out something I was not aware of and is concerning the director wanted to make this for kids, which I think is a huge mistake as Godzilla and Kong films are meant to be aimed at all audiences and when Godzilla went in to kids territory that led to the downfall of the franchise and it going back to bed for years.

Also, not all kids film age well not all of them are re-watchable as kids grow up they come back years later and go this isn't as good as I remember and this could really hurt this movie decades on as the vibe I'm getting is not every adult is impressed with it. Similar to how I remember adults not being big on films like Short Circuit but as a kid I loved it but on rewatch years on realized what they were getting at and that it's not a great film and nether is its sequel.

This may also explain why mechagodzilla's design was simplified as if you're aiming at the child audience you make kiddy versions of things.
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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:47 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:
View Original PostBagheera#919182 wrote:But in any event GvK was not an improvement in that regard by any means. Replacing a flawed human story with no human story is no remedy, particularly when the monster fights are lacking as well.

I have to disagree, I thought the fights were pretty great and a huge improvement over KoTM


No, the fights in KotM had weight to them, and they actually paid attention to their surroundings. GvK had clear visuals, but that's it -- there was no sense of scale to them, which looks weird to anyone expecting a kaiju to move like a kaiju.



That review is accurate. This is a little kids' movie, and I think the reason this bugs so many of us is because the Monsterverse set us up for something more. But oh well.
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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:44 am

I have no problems with what was in the film. I didn't need Aliens to explain MechaGodzilla. I just think the movie has that blockbuster problem where it tries to do too many things during the runtime when being more focused would make everything better.

I really feel 90% of my problems with the film could have been fixed if they had just chosen to follow the Team Kong storyline that goes to the Hollow Earth and didn't divide the movie between that storyline and following Team Godzilla. Kong is THE protagonist of the movie his storyline - and the humans involved - is the only one we should have been watching. Trying to split the movie between two separate storylines and give both equal weight made everything too choppy and thin to be interesting.

All the stuff with Millie Bobby Brown, Ricky Baker and Brian Tyree Henry is ultimately superfluous to the film as a whole. I know they're in there to humanize Godzilla but since they can't actually interact with Big Chonke the same way Team Kong can with the Big Monke made them feel even more unnecessary. Team Godzilla added nothing to the narrative - also two conspiracy theorists in a movie being proved right is one conspiracy theorists being proven right too many - except they make MechaGodzilla glitch for a second by pouring booze on the command console. Introducing MechaGodzilla could have easily been worked more into the Kong storyline - IE. introduce the concept of MG earlier and let Skarsgard be made aware of it so he's forcing the girl to make Kong lead them to the Hollow Earth aware of what will happen if they get there and then because of this he has to redeem himself in the third act by recharging Kong - and then the film would have been able to more succinctly follow that storyline which is the more interesting one anyways.

Oh well. The MonsterVerse has been very messy from the get go with the tone fluctuating from film to film. I'm fine with this being a kid's film. I enjoyed it. I just wish I loved it.

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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:43 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Oh well. The MonsterVerse has been very messy from the get go with the tone fluctuating from film to film. I'm fine with this being a kid's film. I enjoyed it. I just wish I loved it.

The Godzilla-lead MonsterVerse films feel like all of the Showa Era tones squashed down to a few movies.

Godzilla (2014) was the version of the Godzilla/Godzilla Raids Again films from the 50's with Grade A special effects and cinematography.

Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) feels like the first couple Ghidorah or Mother movies of the 60's.

Godzilla v Kong feels like Godzilla vs Megalon or Godzilla vs Gigan or something like that.

Taking 15 films worth of tone progression and squeezing it in 3 movies was kind of a lot. Kinda feels like tonal whiplash, if you ask me.
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Postby movieartman » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:22 am

Gonna re-watch KOTM & then GVK for the 1st time soon.

Re-watched these...

Mothra (1961)
- Decent
- Decent score.
- Interesting slightly subversive handling of some of the characters, the reporter who appears to be a comic relief type chubby guy is basically the lead & gets the most stand out heroic/badass moments (this happened in the Japanese cut of Godzilla Raids Again as well)
- Extended sequence with Mothra & Tokyo tower is well done.
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- The atomic heat ray guns are damn cool and honestly more impressive than the later 60s/70s Maser Tanks that would become mainstays of the Showa era.
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Mothra vs Godzilla / Godzilla vs The Thing (1964)
- Among the 3 best films of the Showa era (50s-70s), fully Great.
- Refines & improves on virtually everything from 61: Capitalist villains are better here & less cartoon-ish, the fairies are used better, the natives of their island are more advanced where as they were presented as pure reactionary savages in 61, a better more detailed & flexible adult Mothra prop, among the best scores of any G film.
- Film has a searing distaste for authority, almost all authority figures (politicans, police, businessmen, plutocrats, village leaders, even a priest) are presented as being corrupt, liars, reckless or cowardly. The military is surprisingly presented fairly well, they are shown cooperating with the US for the greater good, they come up with some grounded but still cool plans against Godzilla but even here their biggest failure was out of their own recklessness. The press is shown in the best light but even with them their editor is presented as a petty tyrant against staff that aren't in his favor.
- The primary battle is solid. Only slight problem is IMO there was too many hyper close up shots.
- Sets for the Nagoya attack particularly the tower & castle are great.
- Possibly the best Showa Godzilla suit. The torso/legs could be more sculpted/muscular but the the head/spines/hands are damn good. Head is shaped kinda like a snake but the details around the cheeks/lips are mammalian. Eyes/eyebrows are notably menacing.
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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby movieartman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:19 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Loving that Nick Adams action going on in the cast sheet for the new Godzilla anime.


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