Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby EscapismIsBad » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:57 pm

Haruo committed suicide by Godzilla to ensure that all traces of nanometal were gone, not purely for spite as you suggest

Yes! But not only, Haruo did "sacrifice" himself too because of King Ghidorah influences, at the first moment Haruo saw the Nanometal at the end of the movie he instantly knew humanity would try again to get revenge with Godzilla and start the cycle all again which ultimately leads to destruction and the (in)evitable fact of King Ghidorah reappearing and collecting his desired "fruits" (which funnily is more literal than it looks like, Ghidorah would literally devour the planet, hence the title). It's very justified, not something they came up with at the very last moment.
Anyway, I enjoy the anime trilogy quite a bit, very grateful for its existence.


Can I just point out people sometimes miss things on first viewing and don't catch till second or third and as a lot of people didn't sit though repeat viewings they may have missed stuff

Exactly this, the movie aren't as heavy like EVA NTE movies regarding to content or information but there's quite a lot of lovable stuff you can't catch on the first viewing. I would recommend reading the fanservice (there is more fanservice than the entirety of KOTM and Shin!) filled novels to catch some worldbuilding on the movies, but unfortunately at least when I was active in the Godzilla community (not so much time actually) it wasn't yet fully translated to English and there's no hope it would ever be translated through official means, but there's a cool Wikizilla video about it(this is something I would like to be grateful about the EVA community, there's so many delightful translated things here it's almost unbelievable, unfortunately the Godzilla community doesn't have that :( ).
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Re: Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:32 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I don’t expect anyone to like it. But if you’re going to dislike it it should be because of what it is, not because of something you imagine it to be. That goes double if you plan on venting about it in a public space.


Except that's impossible as everyone views media differently based on their experiences also what they take from it is very different. Some people will watch a film just for a surface layer viewing and a fun romp others with go further in to the lore or the multi layers of the media and dive deeper on the themes. This means no two views will ever be fully identical, and I get your frustration, but the reality is people can not see in to your headspace.
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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:27 am

Not to mention that Freaky had watched the films, but came away with the wrong ideas of what happened in some cases-but also was seemingly correct when telling us of some other interesting happenings in there.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:24 am

What I remember of the Godzilla anime trilogy was FOR ME was the films were too in love with their own lore to tell a captivating human story or even a competent kaiju narrative. I remember being especially annoyed by the second film which spent about half of it's 100 minute running time with people, aliens and space elves TALKING about the properties and benefits of "nanometal" than actually showing it.

I would never tell someone they're wrong for enjoying a film but for me the trilogy was a complete failure. I watched all three films and honestly can't recall anything of value except one moment. They just fell flat for me. But I would always listen to why someone appreciated them.

The one moment I do remember is my breath being taken away when the first film ended with the heroes "defeating Godzilla" only to find out that was a child and the real Godzilla emerging. That was a good moment.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:21 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Except that's impossible as everyone views media differently based on their experiences also what they take from it is very different. Some people will watch a film just for a surface layer viewing and a fun romp others with go further in to the lore or the multi layers of the media and dive deeper on the themes. This means no two views will ever be fully identical, and I get your frustration, but the reality is people can not see in to your headspace.


No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you're going to criticize a film's plot you should criticize the ACTUAL PLOT SHOWN ONSCREEN, rather than rant about points that even the Wikipedia summary of the plot can tell you are incorrect. I'm not talking about subjective details here, just getting your facts straight before you write a rant.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:What I remember of the Godzilla anime trilogy was FOR ME was the films were too in love with their own lore to tell a captivating human story or even a competent kaiju narrative. I remember being especially annoyed by the second film which spent about half of it's 100 minute running time with people, aliens and space elves TALKING about the properties and benefits of "nanometal" than actually showing it.


The second movie was definitely the weakest of the trilogy, I agree with that.

The one moment I do remember is my breath being taken away when the first film ended with the heroes "defeating Godzilla" only to find out that was a child and the real Godzilla emerging. That was a good moment.


Yeah. I really enjoyed the first movie, mostly because of the fact the humans came up with this insane plan to defeat Godzilla and it actually worked. They did it not with some MacGuffin, but with ordinary (for the time) military hardware. That was super cool -- the pacing was good, the fight was great, and I loved the look of things throughout. And then we get Godzilla Earth, and . . . wow.

Past that, what makes the trilogy interesting, at least to me, is that it abandons the traditional kaiju narrative and instead looks at the lengths we'll go to to destroy something we hate. I do wish the aliens were given a bit more diversity in that process, but the fundamental ideas were good. I also liked the Houtua, since they were an indigenous people who were not directly aping existing ethnic groups, were not shown as "primitive" beings who don't know any better, and likewise were not particularly venerated. They were just depicted as people with a neat outlook on life. That's pretty rare in cinema generally.

Obviously the movies won't work for someone who wants traditional kaiju battles, but I'm fine with them doing their own thing. That thing isn't flawless by any means, but it works well enough that I can enjoy rewatching them.
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Postby Zusuchan » Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:17 pm

Thanks for clarifying why you liked the trilogy-I can't say I agree with anything beyond the point that it had a few interesting ideas and not using MacGuffins, but beyond that I disliked it-and not because I wanted traditional kaiju battles, but because the trilogy seemed like something that could have been good as one movie, but was drawn out to three and so ended up as something far too long for its own good (kind of like the Hobbit films). Couple that with an animation style I personally can't get behind and the few interesting ideas it had getting lost in an overlong, meandering plot full of little characterization and plenty of genericity and you get something I personally can't enjoy.

Of course, I haven't seen the final film, but even if Freaky made a few mistakes when writing his post, the general reception to it has pretty much made me think I was right to not watch it.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:17 pm

Godzilla in the new anime be extra thicc!



He got legs for days!

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:02 am

Did you see the side view? His legs and tail are nice and beefy, but his torso is scrawny. The design looks weird to me.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:15 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:


Legs that go on for miles and miles...

The design is really different, I prefer it over the last animated Godzilla movies design.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:40 am

Here's the side view I was talking about:



Get that lizard a sandwich, stat!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby movieartman » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:34 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I prefer it over the last animated Godzilla movies design.

Oh absolutely.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:



Looking at that tank, this is likely the smallest Godzilla we have ever gotten. Them going notably smaller in scale was nice idea after 100 meters+ was done in Final Wars, Legendary & Shin + the preposterous size from the anime trilogy.

Image

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Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:05 pm

Kong Toys  SPOILER: Show
Image


One of these clearly looks like a Mecha godzilla but its clear there keeping the look locked up tight. That is until NECA puts out their toy line. And I don't know why but the Warbat looks like the face hugger out of Prometheus just with teeth and bigger frills.

EDIT: Found this today have no idea if its a leak or fanmade.

SPOILER: Show
Image
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Postby FXArmaros98 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:34 am

A few weeks after I went to see Godzilla King of The Monsters, I read about a rumor that Toho might push Legendary and Warner not to make any more Monsterverse movies after Godzilla vs Kong because they intend to start a Japanese cinematic reboot of Godzilla. If it really turned out to be like this for me it would be a huge shame, the Monsterverse could tell us much more, the Warner and the Leggendary maybe they could propose Biollante and Destoroyah as next villians.I'm curious to see what Netflix's new Godzilla anime will be like, I realize that after Shin Evangelion maybe we won't hear about any Evangelion animated project for quite a while, but how many like me would like and hope that one day an OVA just over an hour of Godzilla vs Evangelion will be realized?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:43 am

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:but how many like me would like and hope that one day an OVA just over an hour of Godzilla vs Evangelion will be realized?


I would only go for that if it was done by Japan, I don't want Hollywood touching Evangelion as I don't trust them with it as they won't understand the character complexities or themes at worst it could come of deeply insulting at best it would just be like Pacific Rim which still wouldn't live up to the source material.
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Sequel As The Divine Light Breaks For download version please go to AO3

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:57 am

Silvermoonlight I really meant a Japanese animated film, no Hollywood involvement, but in terms of the quality of the writingon the psychology of the characters and the drama realistically speaking it will be extremely difficult if not impossible to have Anno directing, so I believe that if this really happens it will most likely be a film very focused on fighting and action, it could even be the beginning of a new commercial series with a Godzilla different from all the others we have seen so far and maybe even there could be new characters to replace Shinji, Asuka and Rei as pilots because for Anno their era is to be considered over . But maybe I'm just running too much with the fantasy, I mean I'm making assumptions about my own theory :w00t: :tongue:

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:28 am

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:Silvermoonlight I really meant a Japanese animated film, no Hollywood involvement, but in terms of the quality of the writingon the psychology of the characters and the drama realistically speaking it will be extremely difficult if not impossible to have Anno directing, so I believe that if this really happens it will most likely be a film very focused on fighting and action, it could even be the beginning of a new commercial series with a Godzilla different from all the others we have seen so far and maybe even there could be new characters to replace Shinji, Asuka and Rei as pilots because for Anno their era is to be considered over . But maybe I'm just running too much with the fantasy, I mean I'm making assumptions about my own theory :w00t: :tongue:


Thank you for clarification. ^_^

I believe there is the Shin Godzilla vs Evangelion ride, so it's not out of the question that someone might want to dig deeper.

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:02 pm

Silvermoonlight
SPOILER: Show
I had already seen that kind of short film, a shame for the duration however it was interesting to see Shin Goji behave more like the classic Godzilla so a God of Destruction who sometimes also acts as a Guardian God instead of being a constantly evolving abomination that seems wondering like Shinji himself, why does he exist? (or at least this is the message that left Shin Godzilla to me :huh: ) even that version of King Ghidorah was not bad
.. Now that I think about it I came back to my theory that creatures of Shin Godzilla's tail are somewhat similar to Failures of Infinite. Going back to the possibility of an OVA Godzilla vs Evangelion I do not think that something like this will be announced immediately after Shin Eva (even if it could already be in the future plans of Khara and Toho and we do not suspect anything) but maybe in the next SRW game it could there is an involvement of both Godzilla and Evangelion to celebrate the release of Shin Eva, Godzilla vs Kong and Godzilla Singular Point as they did in 2016 with Super Robot Wars Omega for the release of Shin Godzilla.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:04 pm

View Original PostFXArmaros98 wrote:A few weeks after I went to see Godzilla King of The Monsters, I read about a rumor that Toho might push Legendary and Warner not to make any more Monsterverse movies after Godzilla vs Kong because they intend to start a Japanese cinematic reboot of Godzilla.


That sounds like a silly internet rumor made by one of those "ComicBookHeroes" or "DiscussingFilm" sites. It sounds nice and is bound to get a lot of clicks for their site but Toho likely wouldn't have the pull to do this against Warner Brothers.

Toho IS intending to begin a new Era of Godzilla films unconnected to the 2016 film but if WB really wanted to continue making MonsterVerse films I think Toho wouldn't be against it since it would just be another source of revenue. Toho wants to make Godzilla movies but Warner Brothers is the one that stopped them. The main reason we're seeing Anime Godzilla films and an Godzilla anime TV series now is because when Warner Brothers entered into the negotiations with Toho to do Godzilla 2014 WB worked it into the contract that Toho could make NO Live Action Godzilla movies until a Trilogy of Godzilla* films was completed. It was strictly a ban on live action productions but animation was fair game. Shin Godzilla was also exempt from this because Toho had already begun plans on it - this could've been before Anno was hired, no idea - so that film was allowed to get made but I am 100% certain WB's contract is what killed Toho making a Shin Godzilla sequel I mean this was fine by me since I think Shin Godzilla is a masterpiece and works better as a one-off but it was a monster (haha) success in Japan - Shin made like 50 times the money those three anime Godzilla's made combined - and as the reboot of a franchise was the ideal film for Toho to make as series of sequels to. Had it not been for the MonsterVerse there probably would have been a Shin Godzilla 2 and even Shin Godzilla 3 by now from other filmmakers.

*WB's original plan was to do three standalone Godzilla films but after The Avengers blew everyone's tits off in 2012 proving audiences would accept shared universes could work they dove right into the idea of MonsterVerse with Kong.

The truth is the market is what is ending the MonsterVerse. Because they're trying to do so much in them these movies are costing studios more to make than superhero films and they aren't making as much money as those are. The MonsterVerse movies have budgets closer to what Disney spends on an Avengers film and it does like 1/5th the business.

If WB could find a way to make smaller MonsterVerse films that cost like $70 to $80 million they'd have a hit series on their hand. But with the films costing $150 million to $200+ million each time out they're just losing money.

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Postby FXArmaros98 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:24 pm

Had it not been for the MonsterVerse there probably would have been a Shin Godzilla 2 and even Shin Godzilla 3 by now from other filmmakers.
I remember that in the book The Art of Shin Godzilla there are some ideas about the possible future evolutions Godzillaa but Shin Godzilla had an ending that seemed self-conclusive to me, well at least from my personal point of view making Shin Godzilla a monster fighting other Kaiju making him an Anti-Hero like the other incarnations of Godzilla would have ruined his charm as a monster almost unstoppable attacking humanity for no apparent reason and not even showing real emotions until the use of Atomic Breath, I am happy that there will probably be no other works about Shin Godzilla, just like EOE is a unique film in its genre that must not have any kind of following that would risk ruining its initial prestige.
The truth is the market is what is ending the MonsterVerse. Because they're trying to do so much in them these movies are costing studios more to make than superhero films and they aren't making as much money as those are.
Yes, if I remember correctly, Godzilla King of the Monsters didn't get as big a box office hit as WB and Legendary hoped. Also I have found a interview of Keiji Ota the one who currently runs the Godzilla's franchise here what he said about Toho's future plans for Godzilla:After 2021, we’re thinking of a potential strategy that [releases] Godzilla movies uninterrupted at a rate of every 2 years, although there is a preference for a yearly pace as well. The future of the series and its forwarding developments are very conscious of the method of "shared universe". Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah, etc. could all share a single world view much like a Marvel movie where Iron Man and the Hulk can crossover with each other. It is said that each movie can be a possible film production where any one of them could lead a film of their own as the titular character. It would seem that this new cinematic universe of Toho has as its provisional name World of Godzilla, at the beginning I too was very sketic about this news but both wikipedia and Gojipedia confirm it instead.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:46 pm

FXArmaros98 wrote:Yes, if I remember correctly, Godzilla King of the Monsters didn't get as big a box office hit as WB and Legendary hoped.


Yep. It's Warner Brothers poorly kept dirty little secret but King of the Monsters bombed. The films real budget was well over over $250 million - talk is its production budget was more than Godzilla Vs. Kong - and WB spent another $100+ million marketing it and the film didn't make $400 million worldwide. When you add in the math of splitting tickets prices with theaters, the splits and deals made with international distributors and how much they get playing the film in their country and all the other hundreds of deals and shares that go into these ginormous behemoth movies and WB probably lost over $100 million on a film that when greenlit they thought was guaranteed to make near or over $1 billion in theaters worldwide alone.

The only reason Godzilla Vs. Kong wasn't cancelled was because WB was so gung ho on the MonsterVerse that it had finished shooting before King of the Monsters even opened.


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