3.33 English dub released, your thoughts [on the dub] after watching?

[Bagheera]

We haven't made any real headway in this debate about Shinji's fate, WILLE and Kaworus intention, how Misato, Asuka, Sakura etc. Feel about him.

No, you haven't made any read headway in that debate. The rest of us have reached a consensus of sorts and are currently just pointing out bad information.

[BlueBasilisk]

Yeah, but like you just mentioned, Shinji never met her (and even if they had been briefly introduced, it would've been fourteen years earlier, so she no longer resembles what she once looked like during that one frame of screentime in 2.22, as that kid being released from the hospital). Sure, he probably remembers hearing the name Sakura once (assuming Touji or Kensuke ever mentioned her during their conversations), but how does that equate to any kind of evidence proving either the timeskip or that this person actually is who she just claimed to be? Does she show him her driver's license or something? I mean, from Shinji's perspective this Sakura person may appear just as foreign and untrustworthy as practically every other member of the Wunder's crew hanging out in the background on its bridge, spewing out technobabble he doesn't understand.

Most likely adding to his confusion is seeing Asuka looking like she's barely aged a day. Her explanation: Curse of Eva. Did either she or Ritsuko ever elaborate on that statement at all or was Shinji supposed to just accept this as a reasonable explanation and move on (despite the fact that this curse was never mentioned during the first two films or that Rei and Asuka were both most likely heavily exposed to their respective Evas as part of their training for several years, yet continued to age at a normal pace)?

Then of course, there's also the matter of the explosive collar WILLE places around his neck, which somehow doesn't manage to help build the level of trust with Shinji they were hoping for. I guess I must be a rather strange guy, because if somebody is working with an organization that just strapped a bomb to me, my reaction probably wouldn't be:

"Well, that girl who's as unfamiliar to me as this ceiling must be telling me the whole truth and nothing but. Sure, they're prepared to kill me with one press of a button, but that doesn't mean they would do something as horrible as lie about who or what they really are. I guess I have no choice, but to simply kick back and take everything they say as Gospel."

There's a wedge of mistrust between them that works both ways. Shinji is understandably mistrustful of Wille given the circumstances he finds himself in, and Wille of him due to what happened during Operation US.

Even if he doesn't know Sakura's name, Shinji does know who she is. Toji beat his ass on the first day of school because his little sister got hurt during the first battle, and Shinji carried around some guilty feelings for that until she got better just before the Unit 03 activation test. He has no reason to believe she is who she says she is, but what would be the motive for lying about it? They already told him they don't need or want his help and they're clearly not concerned about winning his trust. "Btw, 14 years have passed and here's your best friend's sister who you kinda know. Have fun with that!"

That's why I said she's the best evidence they have that he can relate to. Shinji knows jack squat about Nerv/Wille from a technical standpoint and Misato, Asuka, Mari, Ritsuko and the bridge techs all look more or less the same with slightly different haircuts.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I don't think anyone's suggested that Shinji's reaction to the bomb collar was unreasonable. They're just noting that Wille actually was trying to explain what was going on to Shinji, and that they were in fact in the process of doing exactly that when he left with ReiQ.

Yes, this. Desperate times calls for desperate measures, unfortunately.

BC Baron, if all the unfinished stress of Eva Q is stressing you out, might I recommend Kiki's Delivery Service instead? Everyone actually gets along in that one, and that's because everything's all tied up in a cute little bow at the end. (A red one. On Kiki's head. Miyazaki is God of the Moé.)

[Bagheera]

BC Baron, if all the unfinished stress of Eva Q is stressing you out, might I recommend Kiki's Delivery Service instead? Everyone actually gets along in that one, and that's because everything's all tied up in a cute little bow at the end. (A red one. On Kiki's head. Miyazaki is God of the Moé.)

Kiki isn't even moé, she's just freakin' cute.

[BlueBasilisk]

Kiki's Delivery Service is a great feel good movie! Spirited Away is pretty good too.

Something occurred to me today. Does Shinji ever say "I'm sorry" or give one of his little apologies in this movie? I can't think of a single time that he did.

[Glor]

^Huh, I don't think he does. Although I suspect this may be due to the fact he spent so little time with the Winder crew.

[pwhodges]

Why would you expect him to? He spends pretty much the entire time feeling rejected and hard done by.

[Reichu]

Well, if you're feeling rejected, what better time to just apologize for anything and everything? Reflexive apologizing is a defense mechanism first and foremost, so it's bizarre that Shinji didn't even attempt it. I blame waifuism.

[Ray]

@Xander

Saying 'I'm sorry' would only make everyone else even more mad at him. Saying "I'm sorry" won't make anything better a after all he's done.

You can be sorry. But being sorry does not change anything. It wasn't good enough before Third Impact, it won't be good enough after causing another.

Why should Shinji apologize if no one will accept it? They'll just treat him like garbage again for what he did regardless, and all apologizing has done so far make him feel even more miserable.

[Sachi]

^You feeling particularly pessimistic today, Ray? An apology is a step toward understanding. Even if it doesn't change what's happened, an apology displays a willingness to communicate and learn, which is what is necessary in moving forward from the mistakes of the past.

Also, your post previous to this one clearly shows you're not interested in really having this conversation, but let's not spoil the fun for everybody else, okay?

[pwhodges]

An apology is a step toward understanding. Even if it doesn't change what's happened, an apology displays a willingness to communicate and learn, which is what is necessary in moving forward from the mistakes of the past.

Sure; but at the relevant point, while he is still at Wille, Shinji is still convinced he saved Rei. He still thinks he did something good, and hasn't yet learnt the relationship of what's going on to what he believes he did - so even he has no reason to think of apologising at that point. He is simply unaware that an apology might be called for at all.

[BlueBasilisk]

An apology to Asuka wouldn't have been out of line. They didn't part on good terms and Shinji couldn't/didn't do anything about that. It probably wouldn't have smoothed things over with her any more since she'd been holding onto those feelings for so long, but I don't think it would hurt either.

I wasn't saying he needed to apologize to Wille. Even now, he still doesn't know the true scale of the destruction Unit 01 caused (everything directly above the GeoFront. He needs to know what to apologize for before doing that. I just thought it was interesting that he doesn't even stammer out a reflexive apology when he walks in on Rei Q naked or feels like he's inconveniencing Kaworu or any of those little moments where he might have in the past.

[pwhodges]

An apology to Asuka wouldn't have been out of line. They didn't part on good terms and Shinji couldn't/didn't do anything about that.

Fair enough, though he didn't get much of a chance to make an apology at that point (and not least he probably still sees Asuka's state as Gendou's and the dummy-plug's fault). Of course, he finally gets to apologise to her in my fic that continues the story .

[Stillborn]

^^

That's probably because after apparently the impossible feat at the end of Ha and pulling Rei out of Zeruel, unknowingly to him, his self esteem rised an inch above the usual doormat he is.

So good that it didn't last and Q put him down where he belongs (that's sarcasm btw, since some of people here have trouble with telling).

[robersora]

There's a lot that could have happened that would make the shaky fabric of Qs plot collapse. An apology could have been one of these things.

[Sachi]

Sure; but at the relevant point, while he is still at Wille, Shinji is still convinced he saved Rei. He still thinks he did something good, and hasn't yet learnt the relationship of what's going on to what he believes he did - so even he has no reason to think of apologising at that point. He is simply unaware that an apology might be called for at all.

Oh, I completely agree with you on this. Ray just seems to think apologies are inherently useless. Shinji got thrust until a world he didn't recognize, convinced that he had just done something good, yet is getting the cold shoulder from those who once supported him. Everything about his new setting clashes with his perception of reality, particularly the things said about Rei. Confusion leads to frustration which leads to miscommunication and misunderstanding, which pushes Shinji away from Wille rather than bringing him around to understanding their point of view.

[Lennik]

I'm also in agreement with pwhodges on this one. Shinji only learns what he's responsible for pretty gradually in the movie. The only times he's able to interact with Wille at all is when he's completely ignorant of everything in the beginning and at the very end, where he's very much in the middle of what he thinks is his mission to save the world. He spends the rest of the movie trying and failing to convince himself that he's not at fault. He doesn't really have much of an opportunity to apologize for anything.

[Stillborn]

He does not try to convince himself he isn't at fault. He very much accepts that everything is his doing. He just for a while clings to belief that at least SOMETHING good came out of his actions. But nope, he is denied even that. The buttmonkeyness status prevails.

[KingXanaduu]

@Xander

Saying 'I'm sorry' would only make everyone else even more mad at him. Saying "I'm sorry" won't make anything better a after all he's done.

You can be sorry. But being sorry does not change anything. It wasn't good enough before Third Impact, it won't be good enough after causing another.

Why should Shinji apologize if no one will accept it? They'll just treat him like garbage again for what he did regardless, and all apologizing has done so far make him feel even more miserable.

What did I say?! I'm not even part of this conversation. :P

[pwhodges]

I presume he meant Reichu.