Reticence and false expectations

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Reticence and false expectations

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:14 am

Reticence is one of the most highly regarded Rebuild fics of the EVA fandom, if not THE most, but i was wondering, the fic is performing the same task that Final will perform upon its release. Knowing both this and the fact that i don't think the author planned as far ahead with the story and characters as Anno, i wonder, could reading Reticence could give fans a false idea of what the film will give us, leading to larger than necessary backlash?
Last edited by Arcadia's legacy on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:55 am

I am certain that Reticence is no closer to what Anno will give us than my Afterwards is. Anno is the genius - we are not. I don't know about the author of Reticence, but my motivation was simply to find a way to exorcise my accumulated emotion from the end of Q, and anyone else liking it was just a bonus. I don't see that either of our stories would cause a backlash, though; Anno's will simply displace them in the viewer's mind.
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Re: Reticence and false expectations

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:17 am

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:could reading Reticence could give fans a false idea of what the film will give us, leading to larger than necessary backlash?

A completely worthless backlash.

Go to a movie (or any other work/medium for that matter) to see what the author has to show you, not for what you want to see.

If you're doing the latter then you have zero right to complain because it's 100% your own fault for building up your own wrong expectations.
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Postby The Cruel » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:06 pm

I don't set my expectations high for anything until I get it over with, especially if it's about Evangelion.

FINAL 'll give a big piece of it's mind to the audience, just like what EoE did.

That's where Evangelion really shines, when you have any expectations and it takes you off-guard and makes you feel sorry for this.

Evangelion 'll always be a deconstructive and cynical anime, no mater if it's NGE or Rebuild.

For Retricence I say that it has everything what makes me feel very uneasy and emotional about Evangelion in general and I'm glad I read this till the end. But reading a fanfic about a film series that isn't finished yet wouldn't really satisfy me.

So what I try to say here is, don't expect anything about FINAL, it'll just make you feel hurt after watching it.
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Re: Reticence and false expectations

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:50 am

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:i wonder, could reading Reticence could give fans a false idea of what the film will give us, leading to larger than necessary backlash?
It's not like we've been here before

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Postby Ray » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:27 am

I'm addressing some of the issues I had with Reticence in my own Fic. Which I am getting close to posting.

The thing that bugged me the most about reticence was how overtly optimistic it was, not to mention it just Did not really feel like Eva. Much less Eva after the events of 3.0.

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:52 am

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:So what I try to say here is, don't expect anything about FINAL, it'll just make you feel hurt after watching it.


View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:FINAL 'll give a big piece of it's mind to the audience, just like what EoE did.


Is that not an expectation in and of itself?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:02 am

Maybe; but it is certainly not one that comes from anyone's fanfiction.

Going back to your OP, I am puzzled at the thought that anyone might take fanfics seriously as an indication of what Anno might produce. Who would be so naive?
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Postby Stillborn » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:10 am

It's not naivety. It's predicting future based on what we know.

It's kind of like with Game of thrones: If someone is nice, they will die, since everything in the past points in that direction.
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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:27 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Going back to your OP, I am puzzled at the thought that anyone might take fanfics seriously as an indication of what Anno might produce. Who would be so naive?


I think it stems from the idea that if your going to write a story based on a product, you'll want to keep the original flavour that made it so appealing to begin with. this is best achieved by writing in a style that mirrors that of the original author, so in a way, when your reading an EVA fic that you feel has that appealing flavour that the series/movies had, your going to use it as a rough template as to what Final will actually include

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:38 am

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:I think it stems from the idea that if your going to write a story based on a product, you'll want to keep the original flavour that made it so appealing to begin with. this is best achieved by writing in a style that mirrors that of the original author, so in a way, when your reading an EVA fic that you feel has that appealing flavour that the series/movies had, your going to use it as a rough template as to what Final will actually include


Well, that explains EoTV, EoE, and Q!

The funny thing about most post-Q fanfics I've seen is that they're rather . . . mundane. They focus on big battles and "ordinary" interactions between the cast, when past experience should tell us we're in for the mother of all head trips. If that nightmare landscape in Q is any indication what we'll get will be absolutely mindblowing, something that can only be told in a visual format and will leave us staggering out of theaters in a daze saying "what the hell just happened?" And then we'll debate it for another twenty years or so before we finally start to piece it together.

If anything, I expect people will wind up looking at Reticence as what it actually is: something amateurish and simple-minded compared to what we'll actually get. And hey, that's fine, it's not supposed to be high art -- it's not like we're getting paid to write this shit. So long as we keep everything in perspective I think all will be well.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:48 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:It's not naivety. It's predicting future based on what we know.

Sure it is. It makes more sense for you to do your predicting based on your own understanding of the original rather than relying on some random other person's idea of it. You'll both be equally wrong, of course.

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:This is best achieved by writing in a style that mirrors that of the original author,

The original is a film, and it would be a tall order to reproduce the effect of that in writing in any case! As Bagheera just said:
View Original PostBagheera wrote:something that can only be told in a visual format and will leave us staggering out of theaters in a daze saying "what the hell just happened?
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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Postby Stillborn » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:02 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote: something that can only be told in a visual format and will leave us staggering out of theaters in a daze saying "what the hell just happened?"


So a jumbled mess that makes no sense, generously spiced with ill will and malevolence? :tongue:
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:18 am

You set your expectations such that you cannot be disappointed, presumably.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:19 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:So a jumbled mess that makes no sense, generously spiced with ill will and malevolence? :tongue:


Since that's never been the case in Anno's past work I would expect not.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Postby Stillborn » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:31 am

We just see the shit he puts characters through a bit different. You call this character improvment, I call this spite ^_^
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Postby Lennik » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:04 pm

It doesn't help when you stop watching halfway through the character development and declare the character doomed before the author even has the chance to make the resolution happen, which I think encapsulates a good portion of the section of the audience who seem to write Q off.

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Postby Clover » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:06 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The funny thing about most post-Q fanfics I've seen is that they're rather . . . mundane. They focus on big battles and "ordinary" interactions between the cast, when past experience should tell us we're in for the mother of all head trips. If that nightmare landscape in Q is any indication what we'll get will be absolutely mindblowing, something that can only be told in a visual format and will leave us staggering out of theaters in a daze saying "what the hell just happened?" And then we'll debate it for another twenty years or so before we finally start to piece it together.
It's not 1997 anymore, Bagheera.

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Postby xyz346 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:05 pm

I remember that when I first read Reticence, that it was right after I had watched the third movie and was so eager for something to fill the void. It certainly did that for me... It showed me a feasible way for the story to conclusion and gave Shinji a great development arc. It did have its flaws though - namely Misato's characterization and the Rei issue.
Overall it's in the top tier of Rebuild fics. There haven't really been many other quality fanfics of that length to compare it to - most of them are generally the author going on about how much they hated the film. The fact that we're still waiting on the fourth film hasn't helped.
And to answer the OP... What'll happen will happen. I honestly don't know what to expect, but I believe that the next film will, at the core, reveal the overall message Anno has been trying to get across with these films - something no one can really claim to know about at this point.
...

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Postby Lennik » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:39 pm

View Original Postxyz346 wrote:I remember that when I first read Reticence, that it was right after I had watched the third movie and was so eager for something to fill the void. It certainly did that for me... It showed me a feasible way for the story to conclusion and gave Shinji a great development arc. It did have its flaws though - namely Misato's characterization and the Rei issue.


Misato's whole characterization in that fic was a mess. I generally liked Reticence, but Misato's nastiness (particularly toward Shinji) was way over the top, even for post-Q.


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