Theories: Who is Kaworu's Donor?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:46 am

Bagheera: It's a straw man because I already conceded up-thread that the show doesn't acknowledge the Dr. K. connection in the way it would if it actually were a thing. I'm on "Team Dr. Katsuragi" in so much as: if we're going to have silly discussions about the donor being any named character at all then, yes, I *AM* going to insist that Katsuragi is the only viable possibility. Change the conversation's parameters to "random nobody" and the issue will magically go away. Isn't context keen?

Strangely, you sent me a whole paragraph not too long ago that readily addresses the matter of how Misato could easily NOT recognize Kaworu as her father's [s]illegitimate love-child[/s] [s]clone[/s] whatever, so I'm frankly puzzled you're bringing it up as a source of difficulty.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18646
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:56 am

I'm bringing it up because you're employing a double standard here, one you've used to cause an awful lot of trouble for me in the recent past. Calling that out seems appropriate. To wit, you've claimed that Katsuragi can't be the donor in Ghosts since Shinji didn't recognize him, and yet you're claiming he can be the donor in NGE proper despite the fact that Misato didn't recognize Kaworu. I have no problem with a lack of recognition in both cases, but you're claiming it's fine in one case and not in another. That is where the problem lies.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:11 am

Bagheera: I found your explanation in the PM persuasive, if not immediately then after letting it percolate a bit. I suppose you might not have known that, but there was probably a much simpler way to find out than what just happened here. :p
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:23 am

Going off on a tangent (and purely for the fun of it), the original post does make the interesting suggestion of who else could be Kaworu's donor. I'm wondering if there's any other characters in the background of the show that would make that a fun 'fic' hook, so to speak.

In other words, which characters could that genuinely have a 'holy crap, what a tweest!' implication behind that connection? Beyond Keel and Katsuragi, I can't think of any.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10664
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:21 am

I have toyed with the idea of the parallel: Yui---Rei and Gendou---Kaworu.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18646
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:24 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I have toyed with the idea of the parallel: Yui---Rei and Gendou---Kaworu.


That does seem to be a popular theory.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:31 am

Ooh, I like that....
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:19 am

Why isn't it, as a general rule, considered an important constraint that Kaworu actually bear a very strong physical resemblance to whomever is actually responsible for him looking the way he does? The link between heredity and physical appearance has been well-established for at least several centuries now, and with clones especially (what Kaworu is usually considered to be, whether this is technically correct or not; suffice it to say he probably doesn't take after his "mother's side" all that much...) the effect is obviously heightened, as even identical twins separated at birth make evident. I see little reason to disregard these details and the Yui-Rei precedent when it comes to Kaworu speculation. IT JUST BUGS ME!
:eva01_gwar:

If we're going to be baselessly fanciful, we might as well make a discussion thread for contemplating every possible character Ritsuko's father could be, or whatever.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10664
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:58 am

I said "I toyed"... and the story I was writing did not move on to that point in the end. I accept the comment on the cloning and appearance.

Has anything been thought about in the matter of the differences between Rei and Kaworu as clones? I'm thinking: there is no sign that Kaworu's body is unstable in the way that Rei's is; there is no hint of a Kaworuquarium (perhaps because of the previous). Does this mean that Seele's cloning techniques are different from Nerv's? And what of the fact that Nerv's Reiquarium was stated to be part of the dummy system - does Seele have a Kaworuquarium for the same reason (whatever that reason be)?
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:03 am

Looks don't always set the trend in genetics, Reichu: my youngest sister doesn't look like any of us except in very, very minor ways, but she looks EXACTLY like one of my mom's cousins and some very distant relations on my dad's side. She basically hit the lottery in every recessive gene that the family could throw at her.

When you're talking genetic experimentation as well (and factoring in who knows what other genetic materials are in Kaworu's system), how an individual looks decreases in importance. This is a world where they manufacture explosives that can produce the equivalent of a fission bomb's explosion without radiation. It's not a stretch to imagine they've made strides in genetics we can't even comprehend (which is a given, considering what the primary weapons of the show are!).
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18646
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:08 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I said "I toyed"... and the story I was writing did not move on to that point in the end. I accept the comment on the cloning and appearance.


I think it's a moot point, personally. Kaworu doesn't look like any named character in the show, so we're engaging in an awful lot of handwaving regardless. Might as well pick whoever gives us the best bang for our buck for our stories.

Has anything been thought about in the matter of the differences between Rei and Kaworu as clones? I'm thinking: there is no sign that Kaworu's body is unstable in the way that Rei's is; there is no hint of a Kaworuquarium (perhaps because of the previous). Does this mean that Seele's cloning techniques are different from Nerv's? And what of the fact that Nerv's Reiquarium was stated to be part of the dummy system - does Seele have a Kaworuquarium for the same reason (whatever that reason be)?


I'm skeptical about the instability of Rei's body; I think what we saw in EoE was the result of rather unique circumstances, and it didn't seem to be an issue with her earlier incarnations (nor with Rei III prior to that particular scene; note she matched Kaworu AT field for AT field in 24). Also, while we don't see a "Kaworuquarium" we do know that multiple clones exist, given the Kaworu-based dummy plugs. So, while they might not be swimming around in a fish tank it's clear Seele has to be doing something with them (e.g. storing them in coffins on the moon! :devil: ).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10664
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:10 am

^^ But cloning doesn't have the genetic lottery that you mention (well, only in mitochondrial DNA - and we can't presume that Eva cloning is technically identical to that of Dolly the Sheep). So there's good reason to suppose that appearance will be similar at identical twins level. I presume that they made Rei and Yui look sufficiently different to enable viewers to distinguish, rather than because they thought they actually would be so.

^ I wasn't thinking of EoE, but her long-established medication. Also, do we think there are physical Reis/Kaworus in the dummy plugs?
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18646
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:26 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:^^ But cloning doesn't have the genetic lottery that you mention (well, only in mitochondrial DNA - and we can't presume that Eva cloning is technically identical to that of Dolly the Sheep). So there's good reason to suppose that appearance will be similar at identical twins level. I presume that they made Rei and Yui look sufficiently different to enable viewers to distinguish, rather than because they thought they actually would be so.


It's a handwave either way, though, given that the Seeds are involved. I mean, we might not even be talking about cloning in the conventional sense so much as . . . jeez, I don't even know. Could be anything. The Rei clones seem to bud off of Lilith, after all, and I don't even know what to make of that.

^ I wasn't thinking of EoE, but her long-established medication. Also, do we think there are physical Reis/Kaworus in the dummy plugs?


I do, yes. And recall that we don't know why she was taking her medication . . . this is another of the many things in the show that can be spun a thousand different ways. Is it intended to keep her body from breaking down? To modify her behavior? To deal with the trauma of being subjected to a berserk Eva? Heck, maybe it's just Vicodin! I'd buy it given how much time she spends in the hospital.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:44 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Has anything been thought about in the matter of the differences between Rei and Kaworu as clones? (snip) Does this mean that Seele's cloning techniques are different from Nerv's?

Their origins are a bit different, certainly. Seele's cloning techniques wouldn't make any difference, I don't think, since Seele doesn't actually do anything along those lines; Gehirn/Nerv exists to do it for them. (E.g., Seele didn't create the MP Evas; they had them created by the other Nerv branches.) Cloning is perhaps beside the point, though, since Kaworu was probably the result of a wacky gene-diving experiment on Adam (could "let's use this alien we recently found to do something as boring as make a clone!" possibly have been their true goal there?) and Rei's initial creation was probably not a result of any attempt to clone Yui as such.

I hate the dummy system nonsense with a passion, so I'm not touching that. It's never been conclusively demonstrated just why Rei was falling apart, either. Those issues are both cans of worms that can't be hashed out with anything less than their own threads, really.

Gob Hobblin: We're not talking about the genetic mix-and-match-o-rama of family trees. Kaworu has a gene donor. One person (Lilin-person, anyway) is responsible for how he looks. This is why I made the comparison to identical twins separated at birth. They still look essentially the same despite having greater opportunity for epigenetic divergence.

If any genetic recombination occurred at all, it was with Adam, who received the donor's genes and was left with the task of making a Kaworu from them. But if anything like this did happen, it clearly had no appreciable effect on Kaworu's appearance, since he's Lilin-sized and looks exactly like a Lilin save for the pseudo-albinistic pigmentation. So it is reasonable to guess that Kaworu, if not a clone in a technical sense, functions as one phenotypically. I dunno why, fanwank something. (I actually did make up an explanation for this, but I can guarantee that nobody would like it, so it will go without mention.)

I honestly have no idea what "strides in genetics" would be of any significance here beyond those necessary to make "gene-diving" a thing in the first place.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I think it's a moot point, personally. Kaworu doesn't look like any named character in the show

Bottom half of Dr. Katsuragi's face still works. :tongueflap:
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:40 am

Look, the bottom line is...

I'm right, you're all wrong, that's science.

It's science.

:penpenatf:

Don't make me science at you.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:23 pm

Science... :marihearts:

Since I'm probably coming off as all "NO FUN ALLOWED", let me elaborate a little on my position here. My brain has been making the implicit assumption (since we're in Discussion and not Fanfiction) that the ideas being forwarded in the thread ought to make at least an overall attempt to adhere to what's said in the show and supplemental sources. So, for example, the Dr. Katsuragi idea: even though Anno et al. sadly didn't take advantage of its potential, depriving it of anything resembling canonical clout, it doesn't (AFAIK) really conflict with anything either. Dr. K satisfies all these pesky points:

A) Capable of being physically present for Adam CE
B) Japanese
C) Male
D) Sufficient physical similarity to Kaworu
E) Thematically resonant

...which, as far as I'm aware, none of the other suggestions do. They all come up a bit short.

Now, for fic purposes, there's naturally no need to adhere slavishly to the show's parameters. I'd be one sad, sorry hypocrite if I ever attempted to claim in earnest that one ought to. If you can change things up so that your candidate of choice works, of course you should go for it. Exploring what's not allowed in the original story is at least half the fun of writing fics, after all.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:35 pm

Indeed, and I kind of also brought up the idea of other donors for Kaworu more as a thought-experiment. They are extremely vague about his origin, so gleaning any data about where he came from is practically thesis-level work.

That being said, I feel like taking the time to explore other possibilities can open up some very interesting ideas in not only how the science of the Evangelion universe works (in terms of bonding souls and the like), but also the goals, aims, and decisions made by Seele (pragmatic, or something else?).

Also, I believe that how we analyze and respond to Evangelion and it's implicit but never stated mysteries says a lot about us (in terms of personality, logical processes, etc.), so a lot of the fun in this discussion is watching how everyone argues it. Which doesn't mean I'm taking notes on your weaknesses to use against you...when the time comes....

...that is something I am NOT doing...why would you think that?

:kaworusparkle:
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:58 pm

Gob Hobblin: Is it actually as vague as is commonly assumed? All evidence points to Kaworu being created (in body, anyway) as a direct result of the KatsExp's weird experiment on Adam, so all the details follow from that. It's not thesis-level work; it just requires some attentiveness.

Since Kaworu's implied origins have to be completely changed in order to make all those other possibilities you mention work, is exploring them really all that Discussion-worthy? I figure we'd gain far more by discussing why things are the way they are, not indulging all the ways they're not. So much about the circumstances of Kaworu's genesis is just sort of handwaved as hopelessly inscrutable and never seriously discussed, which is kind of surprising -- something in NGE, too weird for its fans to swallow?! Blasphemy!

Among the many neglected questions: Just what were the KatsExp trying to accomplish with the experiment? How the heck does this "diving DNA" business work? Why is it implied that the donor was required to physically be there for the experiment -- why wasn't DNA alone good enough? What was meant when they said the DNA "physically fused" -- like, what was happening to Adam there? And is that what triggered Second Impact, as seems to be implied? If so, how does that work? Why did all of Adam's other children receive souls from her Chamber of Guf, but Tabris did not? I could go on and on.

(Also, what do you mean by 'bonding souls'?)
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 4229
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:09 pm

Hey, you've convinced me! Still, the many threads of that scattered throughout the series, the subtlety of the implications, and the intricacy of how it's layered requires a lot more digging than some fans are capable of. So, yes: I assert my thesis statement, and raise you a dissertation!
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:24 pm

I've always liked the Gendo theory as an impossible headcanon just so that literally half of Shinji's harem are better, idealized, perfect, literally superhuman versions of his parents.

It also keeps with the trend of Kaworu being Theletos, Rei being Sophia, and Shinji being Man.
J_Faulkner, be warned that some of your statements could be construed as ad hominem attacks. -- Priceless, eternal irony

Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests