The Twelve Kingdoms (Juuni Kokuki)

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Postby IronEvangelion » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:38 pm

Just finished episode 25. It seems like Rectangular Hat Guy is after the throne of Kei. Also: U DUN GOOFD, HORIN! I guess some Kirin just aren't cut out to be Kirin. And rulers: Is the fact that your Kirin has suddenly developed spots somehow not an indication to you that you have massively fucked up!?
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Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:59 pm

As mentioned earlier when started a lot of rulers cannot stop going down the path they started, The king of Ho just probably thought it was because his people were evil causing him to be even MORE harsh.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:13 am

Episode 30 just ended. Shokei is determined to dress that doll, and she'll be damned if anyone is going to stop her! :devil:

Asano needs a tinfoil hat. I wonder how he got so badly screwed up in the head? Oh well, at least he got a cool custom revolver out of the deal.

Suzu seems to have finally met Youko, even if she doesn't know it yet. I wonder if they're going to stay together?

I'm betting the guy in the carriage is part of the plot to assassinate Youko. Even if he isn't, things aren't going to go well for him once she finds out his name after what he did to that little boy.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:33 am

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:Episode 30 just ended. Shokei is determined to dress that doll, and she'll be damned if anyone is going to stop her! :devil:

Asano needs a tinfoil hat. I wonder how he got so badly screwed up in the head? Oh well, at least he got a cool custom revolver out of the deal.

Suzu seems to have finally met Youko, even if she doesn't know it yet. I wonder if they're going to stay together?

I'm betting the guy in the carriage is part of the plot to assassinate Youko. Even if he isn't, things aren't going to go well for him once she finds out his name after what he did to that little boy.

well re-watching the episode they got separated Asano went headfirst there, would not be surprised if he hit his head on the fall, that combined with being totally alone with people who cannot understand in a world equally alien to him for a year (estimate, Youko and Suzu dont age and Shokei still looks around 16, maybe 17) and you have a recipe for batshit crazy.

Rakushun actually got the best deal there with Shokei since while im not sure this was shown in the anime, Enki sent him to Ryuu in the first place to figure out if the kingdom was in decline as Youma have started appearing near there, the corrupt officials proved that was the case, when that happens its probably best for the neighbours to a kingdom that is falling to make preparations for refugees.
SPOILER: Show

There is an unspoken rule about twelve kingdoms, Rakushun+ Female being selfish=character development, its simple math.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:09 pm

I don't think they mentioned Rakushun's mission in the anime, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention when it happened. I do recall him mentioning the corruption of the officials when talking to Shokei.

I wonder why nobody made a big deal about Kyoki's orange hair? Orange Kirin must be pretty rare too. I hope he's shown in his Kirin form some time, I bet it looks pretty cool.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:55 pm

Its not really orange just dark blonde, almost brunette.
And sadly the series never got to how he and Shushou met, the book was Tonan no Tsubasa (The Aspired Wings)
They only adapted the first 3 and a half books because bad timing (fuck you naruto) meant not enough people where interested to adapt the rest.

also minor fuckup earlier, the author of twelve kingdoms is not male, i dont know why i thought she was.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:20 pm

I kind of figured the author was female because of the fantasy world where children are plucked from trees and all the fully-clothed, normally proportioned women. :lol:

Anyhow, I just finished episode 35. Shoukei wanted to kill Youko but no longer does, then Suzu who wanted to befriend Youko at first started wanting to kill her instead. Now Shoukei has convinced Suzu to not kill Youko again, Youko is trying to become a female Robin Hood, and Asano... Asano just needs to stop. I know he's trying to help, but... just stop, Asano.

How will this sort itself out? Will Asano recover his sanity? Is everyone in Kei plotting to assassinate Youko? Is Youko plotting to assassinate herself? And most importantly, will Shoukei ever get to dress her doll in a new gown of gold? All shall be revealed in episode 36: Rakushun is really a Kirin! :lol:
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:37 am

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:I kind of figured the author was female because of the fantasy world where children are plucked from trees and all the fully-clothed, normally proportioned women. :lol:

THIS. so many anime get this wrong for some reason (well i know the reason, its fanservice but still)

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:Anyhow, I just finished episode 35. Shoukei wanted to kill Youko but no longer does, then Suzu who wanted to befriend Youko at first started wanting to kill her instead. Now Shoukei has convinced Suzu to not kill Youko again, Youko is trying to become a female Robin Hood, and Asano... Asano just needs to stop. I know he's trying to help, but... just stop, Asano.

Asano is nuts i think in his mind he IS still helping, to him the world is what is nuts not him.
Though i really do love the performance Joshua Seth gives here with asano, he just SOUNDS like he is going to snap at any moment, which fits.

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:How will this sort itself out? Will Asano recover his sanity? Is everyone in Kei plotting to assassinate Youko? Is Youko plotting to assassinate herself? And most importantly, will Shoukei ever get to dress her doll in a new gown of gold? All shall be revealed in episode 36: Rakushun is really a Kirin! :lol:

Next time on dragonbal- i mean twelve kingdoms!

also you are close to the end of arc 3, episode 39 is the last one.
then it has one more mini-book and the series is over :(
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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:39 pm

I just watched episode 39. What a great ending to that arc! I originally suspected that Youko was going to need to use Shoukei and Suzu as body doubles because the series made a big deal about how similar they looked, but thankfully everything was straightened out without resorting to that. I was so worried that one or more of those girls was going to die at the end, but thankfully only Asano died... and I can live with that. Youko looks magnificent on Kirin-back, by the way.

Speaking of Kirin, I found the third arc's lack of Taiki disturbing. I was hoping that he'd at least get mentioned later in the show, but unfortunately it seems that won't happen. So I'm going to take you up on your offer and ask what happened to him and Yuka.

Overall the second arc is still my favorite, followed by the first. The third arc was very good but it was the only one that seemed filler-ish to me, especially at the beginning. I just feel that they used too many episodes to tell that part of the story, resulting in it moving slower than the rest of the show. However, I must note that episode 39 is probably my favorite single episode in the series.

Only six episodes left... Can't wait to see what the last book is about.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:08 am

Yuka was a side character in the books so she didnt get nearly as much screentime as she did in the anime.

Taiki story was.......graphic.
SPOILER: Show
so they hinted at this a little in the anime but anyone around taiki ends up in accidents, the thing is taiki's family has been feeding him meat the entire time in the human world, kirin are sacred creatures and meat is basically poison to them so taiki has slowly been getting weaker the longer he lived in the human world, worse still his horn was broken on his last trip back to Japan so he can no longer transform into kirin form nor use his powers.
as a result his shirei have become more and more tainted by the air of Japan without their kirin to help keep them sane and have started lashing out at whoever they perceive a threat, eventually the shirei totally lose their minds and just become standard youma, they go on a massive rampage and kill everyone in taiki's family and almost kill his teacher (the main character of demonic child).
eventually taiki remembers who he is and is rescued thanks to general Risai and some of the other kings and kirin.

Taiki has grown into a fully grown kirin but sadly he has still lost his powers, he is a kirin in status only now.
regardless taiki asks that Gyokuyo ask the consort to clean his shirei and himself of impurity and after a short stop in kei, he goes back to tai with general Risai where he believes his king is still alive, the book ends there and what happens after that is unknown.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:04 pm

How horrible. If his king died, he probably wouldn't be able to pick a new one with his horn broken. Does it say how the horn was broken? It must have been quite an impact.

Also, I've been planning to add either Renrin or Sairin to my anime harem to represent both the series and the Kirin species. The thing is, I can't find any good official images of them using either an image search or the Twelve Kingdoms Wiki. Do you know of any site that has good artwork of them or -even better- screenshots?

Speaking of the Wiki, I read something interesting there. Apparently, black isn't the only type of rare Kirin. It says there are also rare white Kirin and red Kirin. Have these ever been featured in the books?
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Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:18 am

I think so but i cant quite remember, its been a while since i read the books you see :P
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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:22 am

I see. Anyhow, I marathoned the last 6 episodes tonight. That was a pretty entertaining side-story. Otsuyu is one paranoid fuckup at the end. :lol:

Overall this has been a great series. Youko is now a radically different person than she was when it started. Probably the most development I've ever seen in a fictional character. The world itself is captivating, and the Kirin are amazing (yeah, I mention them a lot. I'm pretty sure I have a Kirin fetish now). I'm going to put in a good word for it in both the 'What anime are you watching' thread and the 'Anime recommendations' thread.


*Edit because I can't make 2 posts in a row*

I've done some thinking about the show since I finished it, and I've finally come up with a discussion-worthy topic:

Did Hourin really earn what happened to her? I'm a bit undecided on this because I do think she earned some form of punishment for choosing two terrible rulers in a row (one of whom executed 600,000 people for absurd reasons), but just how responsible was she for the actions of her rulers? To my knowledge, a Kirin cannot predict the future and has no idea what their ruler is going to do after taking the throne. Also, a Kirin is oath-bound to obey their ruler and is physically incapable of defying them, and the Kirin's official position of Saiho/Taiho is purely ceremonial and gives them nothing except a big fancy bed (supported by Keiki's remarks when Youko gives him authority over the kingdom while she's away).

So while I do think Hourin should have been punished (she did screw up really damn bad), I don't see how she was responsible enough to warrant decapitation. I know how general I-forget-his-name must have felt, and I fully understand why he did it, but I feel that a more fitting punishment would have been cutting off Hourin's horn (hopefully rendering her unable to choose any more rulers) and exiling her from the kingdom. Of course this would have left Hou without a Kirin to choose their next ruler, but they got the same result when they decapitated her anyhow.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:09 am

Well the general wasn't an idiot, he knew that they needed a new ruler eventually but he just didn't trust horin to choose the next one she was just too unreliable after the previous two rulers.
It also comes down to the fact that after everything that had happened to them the people were kind of bloodthirsty, if he wanted to at least save the princess who he considered somewhat innocent in all this he had to make sure all the others died.
I mean just look at what they did to shoukei once they found out she was still alive, i imagine the people would be even less happy if they found out the kirin was alive.

It all comes down to the general knowing the people and what they wanted, honestly he would make a good stand in king even though he does not wish to take that position.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:27 pm

Yeah good point, even if they had spared and exiled Hourin she would have been the target of constant assassination attempts once the people found out she was alive. She probably wouldn't have been safe anywhere except Mt. Hou, but even then I can't imagine the sages or the other Kirin being very happy about her being there.

And what you said about the general knowing what the people wanted reminded me of something: In the final arc, Enki stated that the Kirin is supposed to be an incarnation of the will of the people. If that's to be taken literally, then Hourin's behavior and choice of ruler implies very unpleasant things about the people of the kingdom of Hou. It seems they are either extreme masochists or they're just really damn stupid. Likewise, based on Kourin's behavior and choice of ruler the people of the kingdom of Kou would be a bunch of racists... and judging by the first arc that's a pretty accurate description. -o-;

By the way, while I was doing more research on the series I found out that least 1 Twelve Kingdoms video game was made for the Playstation 2 in Japan. It goes for around $23 US online. Might be worth picking up if you have a Japanese PS2.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:28 am

while i am interested in this game...its a licensed game, those are rarely good unless they involve Naruto or DBZ
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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:05 am

I actually found some gameplay videos of it on Youtube. It seems to be a classic-style, isometric turn-based RPG, with 2D sprites on 3D backgrounds. It actually looks pretty fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLF1Zlfne8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFbE5Wt0mFc

I got a good chuckle out of the archery mini-game.

Edit: I found a video of another game! This one's an RPG too, but it seems more primitive in terms of gameplay. Also: fire-breathing monkeys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRHr3ldp2Nk
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Postby Ray » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:49 pm

12 kingdoms is probably one of the best Fantasy series I've ever watched. It's the perfect balance between Grim Gritty Fantasy worlds like Game Of Thrones and Berserk, but it's not as unrelentingly grim as those series. In fact it's the exact opposite of of Grim and Nihilistic, it's actually quite hopeful. This series uses grittiness in fantasy quite well.

Because that should be the point of grittiness in a Fantasy setting. In a world where good deeds aren't always rewarded, that's what makes heroism and idealism all the more important. It's important to have grittiness there for comparison, to show exactly why heroism and the ideals Fantasy expresses, are needed.

This is culminated in one of my favorite scenes in the series. Where Yohko finally comes into her own.
SPOILER: Show


Over the course of the series, the spirit that gives her sword it's magic powers mocks her for trusting people. Since the majority of the people she's met in this fantasy world have done nothing but try to exploit her and her friends. She was nearly sold into sexual slavery, betrayed to a corrupt ruler by people who pretended to help them, thrown to the wolves many times over by villagers either afraid of her because of her heritage and origins, or because they saw her as a key to escaping their lowly status.

This comes to a head after she abandons Rakushun after he's mortally wounded. A character who is pretty much the only person in the entire series who's been nothing but nice to her, out of fear of being betrayed again.

Then the spirit of the sword appears to her again and they get into an argument over the need for trusting others. I love this scene, trippy visuals, great uses of the mask symbolism, and a great message that is right up there with some of the great fantasy works.

"Just because other people are cruel means I have to be ? . . . If (rakushun) betrays me, it will be his failure not mine!"


I wish this series was more popular than it is. This is what I think of when I think 'gritty fantasy' done right. The violence and grim reality of our world is there, but the emotional and ideal reality we strive for, is there as well.

This is what I mean when I say Fantasy is a vehicle to touching a greater truth.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:37 am

Agreed. So, which story arc was your favorite? And which Kirin did you like the most?
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Re: The Twelve Kingdoms (Juuni Kokuki)

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:57 am

So could this thread possibly come back to life sometime, I put a decent amount of effort into it and there must be SOMEONE who has not seen this yet that wants to.
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