EoE and the DC: Retcon or Not? [split]

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EoE and the DC: Retcon or Not? [split]

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Postby Monk Ed » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:28 pm

[Split from "Depressed and confused about EoE/wtf happened to Asuka?"]

@Icarus:

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:
  • Why can't Asuka and Shinji just be together?

    Because that strand of the story was awkwardly retconned in after the fact.

^ Just FYI, not a universally-held opinion.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:21 am

Of course not, Monk. It's a FACT, not an opinion. :devil:
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:01 am

Some extra support for it was retconned in for those who hadn't noticed already... :tongue:
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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:11 am

View Original PostThanatosII wrote:Yui-sama gives inspiring words; words that often go unnoticed
I wouldn't say they went unnoticed -- more that they are completely undercut by her "BTW, I'm off to tour the galaxy in my new god body; have fun on your devastated little ball of rock." actions that speak louder than her cheaply sentimental words.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:11 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Of course not, Monk. It's a FACT, not an opinion. :devil:

*Nuke splutters frantically*

:rageface:

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:26 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:*Nuke splutters frantically*
Really, EoTV proves it. All the soul baring, but nothing by the way of affection in either direction between the two; just a bit of tough love from everyone.

Asuka is just somewhere in the middle of the crowd congratulating him.

And in the AU, she's the childhood friend -- we all know that the childhood friend never wins.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:27 am

Meh. In EoE, I can still appreciate it. While a retcon it may be, I certainly don't find it awkward. (That's just my opinion on it, mind you.)

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Re: Depressed and confused about EoE/wtf happened to Asuka?

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:15 am

(still @Icarus:)

...As you can see.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:21 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Of course not, Monk. It's a FACT, not an opinion. :devil:


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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:09 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:And in the AU, she's the childhood friend -- we all know that the childhood friend never wins.


And yet, there they are on the beach at the end . . .

Ah well. Everyone knows my thoughts on the matter by this point, so nevermind.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:53 am

What part of NGE retcons an Asuka love story? Shinji being disgusted with or embarrassed by any female he lives with was fairly well established prior to Asuka’s introduction.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:11 pm

I think people are talking about how the Asuka romance exists in EoE but doesn't jibe with EoTV. (Also the DC stuff, although how late into the process it was cut is something I don't know.) Hence the "shoehorn in after the fact" thing.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:27 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I think people are talking about how the Asuka romance exists in EoE but doesn't jibe with EoTV. (Also the DC stuff, although how late into the process it was cut is something I don't know.) Hence the "shoehorn in after the fact" thing.


It jibes at least as well as Asuka acting normally in EoTV when she'd been mindraped a week earlier and was last seen after a failed suicide attempt. At least the romance angle has ep 9, the kiss, the "newlyweds" comment, and the rest of their boy/girl conflict throughout the show propping them up. Normal!Asuka in EoTV has absolutely nothing.

Me, I write it off to Instrumentality, and the fact that a person's core identity has a lot more going for it than a relationship that never went anywhere. And of course, the potential romance is addressed in the AU sequence. Childhood friend my ass, that's rom com 101 right there.
Last edited by Bagheera on Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:32 pm

There is no romance in EoE. (Except maybe a three-way with Shinji, Rei, and Kaworu, and that’s stretching the definition quite a bit as it is.) There’s only a damaged boy sinking to his lowest point over the top of a broken girl. Then Instrumentality strikes and the children's confusion of both self identity and sexuality come to light with the adults are forced to face their various conflicts. Asuka says that she either wants all of Shinji or none of Shinji, despite the fact that she wants to prove herself with Kaji. Shinji has ill thoughts about the three major females in his life, but still wants to find favor with them just like he does with his father. No one knows what they want in EoE, and everyone is just confused. Why do you think Instrumentality turned out the way it did in then end?

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:45 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:There is no romance in EoE. (Except maybe a three-way with Shinji, Rei, and Kaworu, and that’s stretching the definition quite a bit as it is.)


The whole of the adult cast would like a few words with you. Well, except for Aoba. He don't need no one, 'cept his air guitar!

Asuka would also like a word with you. I mean, it's not like she got anywhere with it, but you can't say it wasn't on her mind.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Like I've already stated, whether it existed in EoTV or not is irrelevant to me (although, like Bagheera said, there's a case to say there is.) What matters to me is that it didn't feel shoehorned in the DC or EoE.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:43 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The whole of the adult cast would like a few words with you. Well, except for Aoba. He don't need no one, 'cept his air guitar!

Asuka would also like a word with you. I mean, it's not like she got anywhere with it, but you can't say it wasn't on her mind.

Love with an air guitar should be recognized, of course. As for the other adults, all of their respective lovers/interests are dead by the time Instrumentality starts. Kaji died on Misato, Misato dies on Hyuga, Gendo kills Ritsuko, therefore Ritsuko died on Maya.... everyone’s cold, alone, and afraid. Whatever romance/interest they had in other people was taken away from them, so it isn’t there anymore.

I’m not sure what was going on between the adult characters during instrumentality in EoE because we’re not shown. Even including EoTV into the mix, Misato’s relationships are hardly casted in a romantic light. She’s cold, alone, and afraid again.

And with Asuka, like I said, she said that she either wanted all of Shinji or none of Shinji, but also wanted to prove herself with Kaji. I tend to see this as more confusion than a solid romance, though I will agree that something might have been starting between them in the show. But by the time EoE hits, Asuka is taken away from Shinji just like everyone else was taken away from each other. And I can hardly call the hospital scene romantic.

I like how EoE makes an effort to strip everyone from their respective lovers or interests prior to Instrumentality (and in most cases before the movie even begins), but out still results in that romance being taken away, leaving everyone cold, alone, and afraid. (Not even Aoba’s air guitar was enough to save him from his fears.)

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Postby NemZ » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:56 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:(Also the DC stuff, although how late into the process it was cut is something I don't know.)


Ah, but the DC stuff wasn't 'cut out' of the original and later restored. Rather it was all things that were created later (mostly for Death), and added into the episodes later still along with some general animation improvements.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:01 pm

'Zat so? Well, thanks for correcting my earlier error. I still stand by the fact that it doesn't feel awkward to me, but that's just my view of it. ;)

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:09 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Love with an air guitar should be recognized, of course. As for the other adults, all of their respective lovers/interests are dead by the time Instrumentality starts.


Everyone's dead by the time Instrumentality starts, so that's not saying much. But regardless, saying there's no romance in EoE is silly. It's chock full of it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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