Who will die in Final.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:42 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:
One of Yui's most iconic lines (if not THE most iconic) is when she said that as long as someone has the will to live, everywhere can be paradise (ie you can build your own happiness), so I really don't see her do a 180° and advocate giving up on life.



Except that quote is from the timeline where everything went according to her plans and the risks she took somewhat paid off;

With Q turning out the way it is, she has either massively miscalculated, or worse, fully intended both impacts and Shinji's role in them. As far as Rebuild!Yui is concerned, the former proves her happytalk wrong, the latter would be unforgiveable.

Yui's as bad, if not worse a monster than Gendo; She's just alligned with what we'd call "good" intended outcome wise, ie, SEELE's plan not going through and the protagonist living.
It's not like she saved Shinji's life out of the goodness of her heart back in 1.0; He's got her genes, and .spreading them around was something she did because she wanted to, to make her dreams of playing house come true.

She probably conceived him for the explicit purpose of doing this to him, or at least, planned it for a long time. She might've used her inbuilt baby factory and not a lab to make him, but basically, Shinji is to Yui what Kaworu is to Keel and what Rei is to Gendo.
Gendo especially Rebuild!Gendo did more actual raising than her, and he justified his absence with exactly the same "well, I'm working on making a better worl here!".
At least he admits he screwed up and shows some regret.

That is not to say that Yui's words, especially in the context of the original series, are to be thrown away - a character can be right about some things and wrong about others, making one character only sprout things you find "right" or "wrong" makes for boring villains and preachy heroes.

I think that what the previous poster wanted to propose with that "Shinji dies happily with Yui's bessing" scenario is an ending where his parents stop messing with him, so to speak, or no longer expect him to fight their battles for them - "Allright, you've done reanonably well in that unreasonable thing we asked of you, so relax now. Do what you want."

I can see the justice/ justifying closure in that, even if not all such scenarios necessarily require Shinji's death.



As for actual death predictions. Gendo amassed too much bad Karma and Fuyu is old. Rei always dies, I've given up hope here.

Misato is trickier; There's 'mentor occupassional hazard' on the one hand and the stereotypical ending for a character who's mad with revenge on the other, but no reason she can't live and... make an epic hopeful speech to the survivors at the end. 50/50.

Same for Shinji - It feels like killing him off wouldn't be Anno's style, but the kid got too much bad karma, be it unintentionally, and little chances of a future.
Misato could just shoot him right after they defeat NERV, ala "Now you're the only one left."
Personally, I'd take a well-written tragic death over an ending where he lives, but is likely to be gunned down in the matter of a week due to human nature, or, at least, doesn't seem better off for it.
Although I'd obviously prefer it if he finds some place for himself in the world.


Asuka is less likely to be killed, but I wouldn't put it past Anno.


Sakura, Midori and Hideki need to survive to rebuild society. If they kill Sakura, I'm seriously ragequitting.
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Postby Sorrow » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:22 am

Who will die in FINAL?

Everyone and no one.
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:42 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:But following Sicarius VI's scenario, Shinji's situation is very different: even if he chose to sacrifice himself for everyone else, it wouldn't really be his decisions in all honesty, but circumstances that were established since long before to make him end in this position where he'll have to sacrifice himself.
Basically, Shinji was pinballed from one "purpose" to another by other people, since almost the moment he was born, culminating into him sacrificing himself to "atone" for a sin consequential of him being pinballed.
In the end that would mean that Shinji never was free to take a single decision for himself in his whole life, everything he did was set up by one mastermind or another, in the end he was a tool that did other people's bidding from his birth to his death, and frankly that sucks.


This I need to agree with, how much I dislike pinning Shinji as someone else's tool, well he is one. For fuck sake him going to save Rei from Zeruel was still planned by Gendo(as him and Fuyu comment). El Mariachi if there is one thing to take from my thoughts is- If Shinji dies in 3.0+1.0/Final/Shin Yui will be there with him at the end, that is my really main thought. And also death for Shinji may not be a completely bad thing, as Kaworu says in NGE "In truth death may be the only absolute freedom there is!"If case comes to worse and Shinji is still dislike by everyone by the end and dies somehow, it might just be better off for him.

Also not for nothing Shinji despite causing it never deserved to be thrown into the world 14 years later after N3I and the assumed 3I, all he was trying to do is save the last person he thought cared about him and frankly felt like family to him and he failed at that, and even unknown to him he's just being used as a tool by nearly everyone. Misato in the beginning to(less in rebuild, and despite this I'm not saying Misato doesn't care about Shinji) achieve her vendetta against the angels, Gendo to get back Yui, and Yui to do only Anno knows at this point.

My point is the same as Kendrix's
I think that what the previous poster wanted to propose with that "Shinji dies happily with Yui's bessing" scenario is an ending where his parents stop messing with him, so to speak, or no longer expect him to fight their battles for them - "Allright, you've done reanonably well in that unreasonable thing we asked of you, so relax now. Do what you want."

I can see the justice/ justifying closure in that, even if not all such scenarios necessarily require Shinji's death.


If Shinji doesn't die, but doesn't reconcile he should just move on(likely with ReiQ or ReiII if she comes back).

And if Shinji does reconcile(which I see happening more or less) well he can finally relax.
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Postby Lennik » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:28 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:It's not like she saved Shinji's life out of the goodness of her heart back in 1.0; He's got her genes, and .spreading them around was something she did because she wanted to, to make her dreams of playing house come true.

She probably conceived him for the explicit purpose of doing this to him, or at least, planned it for a long time. She might've used her inbuilt baby factory and not a lab to make him, but basically, Shinji is to Yui what Kaworu is to Keel and what Rei is to Gendo.


I think you're grasping at straws here. Yui may be bad, but she's always been shown to love Shinji. As crappy and neglectful a parent as she is, there isn't any evidence that she sees him as just some science experiment, and there's absolutely no evidence at all of her having created him in a lab.


View Original PostKendrix wrote:Misato could just shoot him right after they defeat NERV, ala "Now you're the only one left."
Personally, I'd take a well-written tragic death over an ending where he lives, but is likely to be gunned down in the matter of a week due to human nature, or, at least, doesn't seem better off for it.


And this is pure bunk. Misato is not going to kill Shinji. The idea that she would is absurd.

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:24 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:I think you're grasping at straws here. Yui may be bad, but she's always been shown to love Shinji. As crappy and neglectful a parent as she is, there isn't any evidence that she sees him as just some science experiment, and there's absolutely no evidence at all of her having created him in a lab.


That wasn't what I was proposing; just that she might as well have, from how she treats him. And that protecting someone who is your child does not always necessarily equal love or selfless action any more than, say, Gendo's crusade to get his wife back.
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Postby Pen-Pen02 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:22 pm

Well, it's true that in EoE the JSSDF killed a lot of people until Instrumentality arrived and the rest of people joined with Lilith and they had the opportunity to come back if they wanted to do it. That became a kind of "death" for them. But in Rebuild, I don't think Anno will repeat this. I don't believe that something similar to Rei/Lilith could happen again, but I'm afraid something terrible is going to happen (something like "the mother of all Impacts" or maybe something worst). But in this occasion, I think people will be more prepared and they will fight stronger for surviving. They passed for hell and now I think they appreciate more their lives (well, I think so) and now, Gendo would find difficult to destroy Willie's forces. So, this time, I believe less people are going to "die" (in a Impact or during Instrumentality). But, this is Evangelion and nothing is said until the end XD so, I'll speculate:

Alive:
- Shinji (he's the protagonist, and he must stay alive)
- Asuka (she "died" once, no would have sense she has to die now)
- Willie's personal (specially the youngest)
- Yui (I know, she's already dead, but here I refer to her soul. Maybe EVA01 will keep it forever again)
- Rei II (The same as Yui. Her soul will be "alive" forever in some way)

Deads:
- Fuyutsuki (No doubt for me)
- Nerv's personal (I don't see them, but I suppose there are human personal for this organization, well I think so)
- Kaworu (If suddenly he appears, that's usually his fate. Also, I think he won't come back in next film, neither his soul)

I don't know:
- Misato (50/50) It's dificult to predict if she will continue alive. But it could happen if Kaji's still alive. A big battle waits for her and she could die. Personally, I believe she could survive. Rebuild is doing the opposite to NGE and EoE, so she has big chances for staying alive.
- Ritsuko (50/50) Like Misato, she could survive if Misato does.
- Gendo (at the beginning, I thought he could die at the end, but now I'm not sure. Maybe he could earn a hard punishment, one worst than death)
- ReiQ (50/50) She could die or live her own new life.
- Mari (50/50) She is a special case. Or she could fight and live after an epic hard battle or die after an extreme heroic act (maybe saving Shinji, Asuka or Wunder ship). Really, I don't know.
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Postby Jäeger » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:03 am

View Original PostPen-Pen02 wrote:Well, it's true that in EoE the JSSDF killed a lot of people until Instrumentality arrived and the rest of people joined with Lilith and they had the opportunity to come back if they wanted to do it. That became a kind of "death" for them. But in Rebuild, I don't think Anno will repeat this.


Well, it cannot be repeated because there is not many poeple left alive in the world to be killed. :hahaha: :hahaha:

Never kill Mari :sniffle: She deserves her threesome :hahaha: :hahaha:
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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:31 pm

My predictions:

Alive:

Misato and the Wunder's crew (They are the hope for the future. Ok, maybe Misato will die, but I'm pretty sure the rest will live.)
Shinji (Plot armor.)
Mari (Little to no character development so far. Killing her off would be a waste.)
Asuka (As pointed out before, she already had her "death" in 2.0.)

Dead:

Gendo (He's Gendo. Enough said.)
Fuyutsuki (He's Gendo's little helper, he's going to bite it.)
Eva Unit 02+08 (Mari is one of the pilots, assuming it's a double-entry model. If you're an eva, THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING!)
Rei Q (As much as I'd like to see her live, she'll probably continue on in the proud tradition of previous Reis and die horribly. Either that or she'll become the new vessel for the soul of Rei II.)
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Postby SEELE » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:35 pm

Hey guys im back from the dead!

Who will die in FINAL?
Good question. I can make a point pretty fast on that. If we look back to NGE every character (except those of a bad karma) have either helped Shinji or supported him. 2 exceptions are Rei and Asuka. Both died while protecting earth. And both were the trigger (Asuka in EoE and Rei in 2.0).

So Kaji did have a nuturing behaviour towards Shinji in the tv-show. Kaworu showed genuine approval towards him. Misato encouraged him. And like we see in EoTV even his father gave him a piece of his mind. Therefore i assume 2 possible directions:

1)FINAL will be a rip-off to EoE only in a futuristic setting with all the new Evas.
2)Or it is a subversive sequel to the events of EoE.

The 2) point means something like: In EoE everybody died because of Shinji's fault. Anno (in his shizo-behaviour) might be subvert the message into a heroic sacrifice because he showed "typical-Anime-Shonen"-tropes at the end of 2.0. I assume he'll continue the subversive plot from Q.

But my predictions are:

Alive:
- Sakura/WILLE-crew: Because a simple and yet obvious reason - future for those who are left behind
- Shinji: in my opinion also pretty obvious because it is (unlike the tv-show) a Shinji-centered story

Dead:
- ReiQ: till a certain point in the plot - aka. GNR - yeah we saw her in 2.0 but remember E23
- Fuyu/Gendo: certain of that - eitherway 1 of them will see Yui
- Misato and Mari: Oh, boy. A death sentence on both of them just like Asuka. I don't say it is certain. But its possible that 1 of them will die for sure. Mari have similiar position like Asuka and Rei from the tv-show. She will most likely help Shinji to pull his head out of his ass and confront Asuka - for not saving her "last time" (end of Q). Both (Misato and Mari) have a supporting yet important role. I say 1 of them will die.

Uncertain:
- Kaji and Kaworu-Ghost: If Kaji is alive - most likely KaworuG will come to save Shinji from a possible continued 3rd Impact. Because literally Kaji stands for the hope and the truth. Wouldn't mind if Kaji is still alive or a backroundstory for the last 14 years. I would say that Misato will be uncertain if Kaji is still alive.
- Asuka: oh boy! This girl. I dont know. Wouldn't mind if she dies horribly because of Shinji to prevent any AsuShin but she seems to have "plot armor" because of the 777-Beastmode (FF7 reference)
- Friends and Family of the cast: Ritsuko will most likely survive or either "see" the 3rd Impact coming. If Kaji is alive Kensuke, Toji and PenPen² are most likely turn out to be alive to. Touji was most likely a cush-pilot for NERV/early WILLE. Maybe he died in combat.


My wish:

Everybody (subversive to EoE) survives because of Shinji (which certainly not mean he has to make a heroic sacrifice) and he restores the world to AfterSecondImpact-status. It wouldn't suprise me if Anno really subversive EoE complete.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:41 pm

My predictions:

Everyone! :mwahaha:

They'll get better.
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Postby xanderkh » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:09 pm

^

I second this motion. :thumbsup:

I mean, think about it? Ever since EoE, we've come with the stereotype that Anno will always create an ending akin to "Space Runaway Ideon", where everyone dies, when we keep forgetting, THE CAST WASN'T DEAD ALL THE WAY! THEY CAN RETURN!

And the thing is, I think Anno knows this "stereotype". So, wouldn't the ULTIMATE subversion to his "ending" would be not that everyone dies, but EVERYONE LIVES? Wouldn't THAT be the ultimate ending that we would least expect from Evangelion?
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Postby Stillborn » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:42 pm

Everyone lives, but we are left with a foreshadowing, that in just a few generations, mankind will go extinct anyway. Horray for ambiguity.
Last edited by Stillborn on Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sgt. Griff » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:29 pm

Wait.

Kaworu's a ghost? I'm missing something here.
Leave Shinji alone

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:10 pm

Image



Kaworu-ghost is the final boss. Because the dead can not be killed he can not die. Everyone else dies and we have a ghost planet. Surprise 5th film is about aliens coming to Earth and hilarious haunted hijinx happen.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:25 pm

I've been wracking my brain for over a year about what that shot meant, and I've still come up with nothing concrete. It's got to mean something... but what?

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Postby SEELE » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:37 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I've been wracking my brain for over a year about what that shot meant, and I've still come up with nothing concrete. It's got to mean something... but what?


I think it illustrates the bonding between him and Shinji. The light emphasize the after light under the byword "I see a light". The rip-apart-Kaworu gets also emphasize with Sakura Nagashi - words are left unspoken and Shinji regret it. This is a shot as a model is more of a "i'm leaving" and the backround emphasize the ejecting of the Entry-Plug.
Last edited by SEELE on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sgt. Griff » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:37 pm

It's a metaphysical representation of the physical act of Shinji being ejected.
Leave Shinji alone

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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:09 pm

View Original PostSgt. Griff wrote:It's a metaphysical representation of the physical act of Shinji being ejected.


But Shinji's entry plug was never ejected.
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Postby Ray » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:23 pm

Ripped out by force ALA The pink kitty known as Mari.

Shinji will not die, and that's the only thing we can be sure of.
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:49 pm

Um, WTF? :|


Did you people not rewatch the movie 183 times like everyone else?

When Mari punches Eva-13 he shoves her hand into the back, left side, under the main hump

Image


And proceeds to pull and Eva-sized ejection handle. External ejection handles are pretty much standard on fighter craft although in most cases they only eject the canopy and don't go through the whole ejection sequence. Usually you have a giant RESCUE sign pointing at it.


Image



Another shot of the Eva-sized ejection handle



Image



At which point the left-side, Shinji's plug is ejected

Image
Image
Image


The shot immediately after this one is
Image



As Shinji's plug flies off in one direction, Kaworu's ghost (and Eva-13 by extension) flies off into the opposite direction. Sgt. Griff is entirely correct. The one thing i'd fanwank on top of that is that the Kaworu shot is a possible hint that his soul will continue to reside in Eva-13.
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