The Kaworu-Katsuragi Connection?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:19 pm

zeaven wrote:Yeah, I originally thought you meant something like that, but then earlier you said "last scene" so I thought it would be something extra conclusive.

I was just referring back to when I said there was one scene left to Exhibit A. Sorry to cause any mixups.

The visual aids are quite time-consuming -- I'm processing the screenies more or less as I would images for Ye Olde Commentarie, so I only have to do things *once* in the end, heh.

Regarding the lookout spots, it would be quite possible to guesstimate their general locations relative to the city/lake, but one would need to gather up a bunch of screenies (and any other relevant materials) and get a pretty good feel for the region.

The only other lakes (ever mentioned) created as a consequence of Angel-related conflict were courtesy of Sahaquiel's misfirings. Fuyutsuki muses about them at the very beginning of #15.
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Postby Szmitten » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:53 pm

- Kaji & Kaworu


A relationship between these two popped into my head late night/early morning but i can't remember how I got there. I can't wait for yours.

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Postby zeaven » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:39 pm

The only relationship I can think of is that Kaji delivered Adam's body, and Kaworu contains Adam's soul.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:41 pm

zeaven wrote:The only relationship I can think of is that Kaji delivered Adam's body, and Kaworu contains Adam's soul.

Kaji fits into the circle of the "Adam-involved", but he and Kaworu are linked in various rather more direct ways. For later.

Ehhh, crap, where the hell was I?

SCENE 8

#25': The Assault Begins


At approximately 6 AM the next day, we see Lake Tokyo-3 (and Ashinoko, beyond) veiled in the morning haze.

Image

Cut to a 'computer chamber' (script isn't very detailed here) within Nerv HQ...

Image

...where Misato is doing some 1337 hax0ring.

Image

[She has a bunch of disks lying around labeled K-## (is the "K" for Kaji?). (See here and here.)]

Eventually, she stops typing.

Image

Misato:
(coldly) So, that was the real intention behind Second Impact...

Image

Of course, the shocking data she's looking at is little more than a cruel joke from the Gainax boys.

And <insert rest of scene>.

Not very much to point out here. Misato left the overlook a second time for this cramped, dark corridor –- no longer afraid of such places, apparently -- of Nerv HQ so that she might hack her way to the truth. The truth about 2I would, presumably, also include the truth about her relentless obsession but two days before, Kaworu, whose birthdate is one of the few things she and Hyuga were able to exhumate.

I'll draw attention to the fact that this scene opens not with, say, an exterior shot of Nerv HQ, but with a view of the lake. Is there something deliberate to the juxtaposition?

One more thing upcoming.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:42 am

Just for the sake of quickly pointing it out:

The room where Misato is doing her hax0ring...

Image

...bears some kind of resemblance to the one from #21...

Image

...where Naoko is doing some digging of her own. The latter is considerably less high-tech and flashy, and considerably more roomy –- but the two would seem to be related in some way. I dunno.

Naoko only finds more mysteries:

AKAGI (MONO):
All files concerning Rei Ayanami have been erased already?
It's blank.
What does this mean?


On the other hand, Misato finds answers.

It's not quite clear what she learns. At the very least, the "true intention behind Second Impact" (vague as that is), and she tells Shinji about the nature of humans and Angels. Strangely, there isn't so much as a nod towards Misato's "personal" interest in 2I -- insofar as Dad's participation, her witness and survival of the cataclysm, and so on –- and, judging from superficial appearances alone, it's as if the matter of "that boy", one that she doggedly pursued for an entire episode, has abruptly evaporated from her mind completely. (At least the bridge bunnies bother to mention Kaworu in #25'!)

And thus, Exhibit A is actually over. I've attempted to point out some of the subtle visual cues that may be sounding an alert to a connection between Misato and Kaworu -– one comparable to that which Kaworu shares with Rei –- and how there may be things happening with Misato's character in #24 and #25' that are not being spoken aloud.

As promised, feel free to post now, but try to stay out of "Attack Dog Mode" (THAT MEANS YOU, RAWHIDE) -- I mean, you can't really criticize an idea very accurately when you've only seen approximately a sixth of it.

Next up, I'll take a step back from Kaworu and spend a little time looking at the formulation of the character family formed by Misato, Dr. K, and Kaji.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby AuthenticM » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:37 am

I'm looking forward to where you're going with this.
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Postby MaggotMaster » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:58 am

I like the way you expose your ideas, even if I end up disagreeing with whatever you're trying to prove the way you expose them makes up for an interesting thread.

Please go on.
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Postby slothen » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:27 am

of course, when I think of Kaworu and Kaji, I think of the quintessential "impish smile" thing they both have, as if putting others in a situation of discomfort or embarassment is highly amusing, because they themselves are never in such a position.
Last edited by slothen on Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:35 am

MaggotMaster wrote:whatever you're trying to prove the way


Heh, "whatever I'm trying to prove"? I did state my thesis in the first post, so it's not really so much a matter of "what", but "how". (And "geez I hope this works".)

Actually, I lied. Kaji will be next after all.
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Postby Legend of the Past » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:38 am

Well, Rachel, I think you're doing very well here. You've set up Misato's curiousity fairly well, as well as the Misato-Rei connection. I really can't wait to see when you get to the real bulk of the theory.
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Postby Szmitten » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:21 pm

MOAR! The Reichu must WORK! *cracks whip*

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:14 pm

slothen wrote:edit: I'm pretty syre I spelled "quintescential" wrong.


quintessential - from "5th essence" (= element, in the classical 4 element sense).
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Postby slothen » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:14 pm

fixed.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:58 pm

Reichu wrote:...where Naoko is doing some digging of her own. The latter is considerably less high-tech and flashy, and considerably more roomy –- but the two would seem to be related in some way. I dunno.

The rotating red lights might be Gainix's representation/meme for "databanks", i.e. the visual hint to let us know we are in the deep bowels of NERV where all those exabytes of soon to be useless datafiles reside. Think of it as Gainix's version of the computer storage "drum" symbol.

Reichu wrote:As promised, feel free to post now, but try to stay out of "Attack Dog Mode" (THAT MEANS YOU, RAWHIDE) -- I mean, you can't really criticize an idea very accurately when you've only seen approximately a sixth of it.

At this juncture then, I'll submit that much of the material presented so far concerns Misato's search for the truth, and Kaworu's role in that search. Some parallels can be drawn here between Kaworu and Kaji, with regards to their respective roles in bringing "matters" of import to Tokyo 3, being driven by seemingly personal goals, knowing their lives were in danger and ultimately getting themselves killed.
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Postby Rawinder » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Legend of the Past wrote:Well, Rachel, I think you're doing very well here. You've set up Misato's curiousity fairly well, as well as the Misato-Rei connection. I really can't wait to see when you get to the real bulk of the theory.


Personally, I couldn't possibly disagree more. But I'll let Reichu finish before initiating "attack dog mode."

Just one question: Reichu, is your theory essentially one giant transitive property?

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Postby Jdrozen » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:55 pm

When will Reichu continue?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:11 pm

Rawinder wrote:Personally, I couldn't possibly disagree more. But I'll let Reichu finish before initiating "attack dog mode."

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Just one question: Reichu, is your theory essentially one giant transitive property?

If it comes across that way, it's not my intention. There may be some transitive elements involved -- although I suck at math and these terms confuzzle me; is transitive a bad thing? -- but AFAIK there's more to it than that.

Will try to get some Kaji/Kaworu up tonight.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:24 pm

transitive - if a op b and b op c then a op c.

b op a need not be true (e.g. case where op is > or < )
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Postby Rawinder » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:35 pm

Reichu wrote:If it comes across that way, it's not my intention. There may be some transitive elements involved -- although I suck at math and these terms confuzzle me; is transitive a bad thing? -- but AFAIK there's more to it than that.


Unless I'm mixing up my proofs, the transititve property states that if A=B and B=C, then A=C.

That's kind of the impression that I'm getting from your theory (if you equate the equals sign to parallelism). In other words, what you're proposing is this:

If Shinji=Misato, Yui=Rei, and Rei=Kaworu, then Yui = Dr. Katsuragi and Kaworu = Dr. Katsuragi.

Right?

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Postby zeaven » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:22 pm

I believe she's presenting the least provocative/convincing arguments first in order to give the final revelation a valid ground on which to stand. There are 5 more "exhibits" left, and hopefully the last contains the most direct and relevant information. Also, consider that there is nothing in the series where they flat out TELL YOU what Reichu is proposing, so, more likely than not, it will take on a transitive flavor. The "proof" will most likely be speculative in nature.

No pressure or anything. Err, I guess therei s pressure -- if you are going to suggest something groundbreaking (in the eva universe anyway), you had better have adequate proof.

My position? Hopefully skeptical.


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