The Kaworu-Katsuragi Connection?

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The Kaworu-Katsuragi Connection?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:45 am

(If you know me, you probably have a good idea of what this will be about. Apparently, it would be a good idea if I just got it out of the way. Well, I'll try...)

One of the things for which I'm infamous is the advocation of the following:

Yui : Rei :: Dr. Katsuragi : Kaworu

The basic idea gets far more rolling eyes than it deserves, in my opinion, since, at a barebones level, it rather intuitively satisfies a gap where numerous preestablished patterns of correlations converge. (See e.g. here.) The problem is that, as with so much else in NGE, there is no way to empirically prove it OR deny it, only weigh its probability.

I've noticed a handful of items in the show that may be, rather subtly, suggesting ties between Kaworu and the three members of one particular "character family": Misato, Dr. Katsuragi, and Kaji. Here I'll attempt to present observations of possible relevance, while posing questions and making suggestions along the way.

RULE: I'll be happy to get this over with. You can help me out by not interjecting with your doubts, or whatever, until at least all of Exhibit A is up. You'll know when the green light goes on.

*****

EXHIBIT A: Misato & Kaworu

In episode #24, Misato takes an acute interest in "that boy" early on, her suspicions piqued before she even sees him in the flesh. Just to set the stage, I'll start things off with some generic copypasta.


After Asuka is recovered, Misato thinks to herself...

Image

Misato (MONO):
And today, Asuka's replacement, the Fifth Child, arrives.
Everything is just too perfect.

Later, she and Hyuga-kun discuss intelligence on the car train.

HYUGA (OFF):
It appears the Fifth Child has just arrived.

Misato:
Kaworu Nagisa, his past records have already been erased.
The same as Rei...

HYUGA:
But the one thing we do know is
that his birthday coincides with the Second Impact.

Misato:
The Committee sent him directly to us.
There's bound to be something to this.

HYUGA:
In the Marduk Report, the matter of the Fifth Child
is also designated as confidential.
So, I did a little hacking into the Intelligence Department's database.

Misato:
You're so reckless!

HYUGA:
It was worth it though.
I found out where Miss Ritsuko's being held.
How do you want to go about the Fifth Child's synch test?

Image

Misato:
Let's hold off on the trick questions today
and get a straight reading on what he's capable of.


That being...

FUYUTSUKI:
Who would have expected that he would synchronize with Unit 02
without the core being reconfigured? This boy...

IBUKI:
But this is beyond belief! This should be impossible, given the system.

Image

Misato:
Nevertheless, these are the facts.
First, accept the facts for what they are,
and then investigate the why behind them.*


Misato continues to investigate in her spare time...

Image

Misato:
And yet, we still have no idea what he is.
Who in the world is that boy?


Who, indeed?

* Maybe it's just me, but Misato's words here always seemed to resonate with the beginning of #21':

Man A "You mean the Super Solenoid Theory that Dr. Katsuragi proposed?"
Old Man B "It's just too far-fetched!"
Old Man C "And it's still in the hypothetical stage."
Man A "But only the S2 Theory can explain the motive energy of that giant."
Man D "We already have actual proof, however unintentionally."
Old Man E "The fact that it exists means that it must be accepted."
Old Man B "I'll accept it when, and only when, all of the data's been verified."
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:38 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:52 am

And now, onto our first major scene.

SCENE 1

#24: The Monoliths of the Lake


Here, we see Kaworu talking to...

Image Image

Image

...absolutely nobody at all.

Image

And he's being watched from afar.

Image

Misato:
It's no good. I can't read his lips from here.
But he certainly is a shady character,
going out for a walk so early in the morning to talk to himself.


("A walk"?)

You should have talked to yourself a little more quietly, eh, Misato-san?

Image

Kaworu spins around and seems to look her way. Closeup animation:

Image

Misato freaks out.

Image

Image

Misato:
He noticed me?


Image

Misato:
No, it's not possible.


Or is it? Apparently amused, Kaworu spins back around, smiling.

Image

KAWORU:
All will be as the Lilim direct it.


More to come later.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Mundane » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:18 am

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah.

How is he standing on a petrified MP Eva?
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Postby Legend of the Past » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:38 am

Mundane wrote:Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah.

How is he standing on a petrified MP Eva?


It's not a petrified MP Eva-probably just a statue of an Angel\demon... a CHRISTIAN Angel, that is. Though it foreshadows ONE MORE FINAL: I NEED YOU rather well.

Well, Rachel, so far there's no evidence to back your theory up-unless you count Misato being overly paranoid. Kaworu seemed to have that effect on everyone, even I-don't-give-a-damn-about-you Rei. Even Shinji might of suspected something, but was so happy to be loved that he was like: 'Eh... it couldn't be. Angels is bad, Kaworu are good. Kaworu Angel no...' (Typos intended, of course. We all know Shinji's brain is degenrating, which is why 25 and 26 are precieved through a series of sketches)
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Postby Reichu » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:47 am

Reichu wrote:RULE: I'll be happy to get this over with. You can help me out by not interjecting with your doubts, or whatever, until at least all of Exhibit A is up. You'll know when the green light goes on.

Read the rules next time. I said I would would post more later for a reason.
Last edited by Reichu on Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shin-seiki » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:28 am

Mundane wrote:Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah.

How is he standing on a petrified MP Eva?
It's the same statue that Kaworu was perched on when Shinji first met him earlier in the episode. One could ask what the statue is doing out in the middle of the lake in this scene, tho... or, for that matter, how Kaworu got out there.

However, let us not take this thread OT so soon; please allow Reichu a fair opportunity to make her case.

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Postby SaeculiTerminus » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:38 am

the first time I saw that thing, I thought it was the dead body of EVA-00 >.>

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Postby Space Penis » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:49 am

Shin-seiki wrote:
Mundane wrote:Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah.

How is he standing on a petrified MP Eva?
It's the same statue that Kaworu was perched on when Shinji first met him earlier in the episode. One could ask what the statue is doing out in the middle of the lake in this scene, tho... or, for that matter, how Kaworu got out there.


I'm guessing it's a case of, y'know, tides.
Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise!

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Postby Legend of the Past » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:44 am

Shin-seiki wrote: One could ask what the statue is doing out in the middle of the lake in this scene, tho... or, for that matter, how Kaworu got out there..


One could ask what Shinji was doing next to him.
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Postby master0rolando » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:10 pm

Shinji was there thinking...he didnt notice Kawarou until he started singing...

i think the statue is probly just that...a statue...not a harpy...just a statue of what most think an angel looks like...but its pretty obvious why its there...the statue is headless...its an angel statue...after Kawarou gets his head popped off...satue is shown while Misato and Shinji speak...in Death and Rebirth after hes decapitated the statue bleeds at the neck...

its pretty obvious...Statue represents Kawrou...and if you ever wanted to draw what you think Tabris looks like in angel form...thats probly what to look at...(some theorize that hed look like a Harpy...but its only cuz of the dummy plug)

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Postby zeaven » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:29 pm

I placed a bet with myself last night before going to bed based on how long it would take before someone would skip Reichu's "don't post yet" message and post a disparaging comment.

I won the bet.

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Postby Mundane » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:37 pm

Good for you :D!

If she had a picture of Asuka's gravestone, would've asked about that one to.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:22 pm

zeaven wrote:I placed a bet with myself last night before going to bed based on how long it would take before someone would skip Reichu's "don't post yet" message and post a disparaging comment.

Yeah, but I figured I would at least try... There are about eight scenes left to cover for Exhibit A alone; people needn't be too jumpy.

BTW, angel statue: http://animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5848788&postcount=3
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Postby Darius » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:19 am

Well, I am interested....there are many things to cover and this was just the beginning.

I'm all ears...err...eyes lol (you know what I mean)

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:54 am

SCENE 2

#24: The Escalator


RANDOM OBSERVER:
Wait wait wait... I thought this was "Misato and Kaworu", not "Rei and Kaworu".


Don't worry. Rei is actually quite relevant here, as it turns out.

Backtracking a bit in the episode's chronology... Shortly after the synch test, Rei has her Close Encounter with the Fifth Kind.*

Image

Image

KAWORU:
You're the First Child, aren't you?

Image Image

Rei Ayanami...
You're the same as me.
So, both of us ended up in the same form as the Lilim while we inhabit this planet.

Image

Rei:
Who are you?

Well, not much else to say there. Kaworu said it all.

* Wow, that pun came out better than I'd expected... If you get it, you are made of win.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:36 am

SCENE 3

#24: Musings


That evening – whilst various other characters are talking to Evas, making farewells to penguins, and having intimate sleepovers – Rei contemplates in a most economic manner, drawing (almost) entirely from the banks of prior episodes.

Image Image Image Image Image

Rei:
Why am I here? Why am I alive again?

Image Image Image Image

For what? And for whom?

Image

The Fifth Children... That boy...
I feel as if he's the same as me.

Image

Why?

Seems that Kaworu's words are having the intended effect. Any audience members who haven't caught onto the fact that there is some sort of mysterioso connection between Rei and Kaworu can now be officially declared "denser than lead".

More to come later...
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:00 pm

SCENE 4

#24: The Bridge


Early the next morning, after Misato's experience at Lake Tokyo-3, she meets up with Hyuga-kun again.

Misato (OFF):
How did it go? Did you get any data on him?

Image

HYUGA:
Here it is.
I borrowed it from First Lieutenant Ibuki without her permission.

Misato:
I'm sorry I keep making you do these theft-like things.
What is this?!

HYUGA:
It's no wonder Maya can't release this information.
It's all theoretically impossible data.

Misato:
You're right. It only deepens the mystery.
To think that he can freely set his synch rate with the Eva...
And of his own will at that.

Image

I guess this is yet again no time to be worried about appearances.

There seems to be an unusual 'weariness' to Misato in this scene.

Her last line here confuses me. The best I can make of it right now (based on contextual examples at SpaceAlc) is that she's talking about not being inhibited in their efforts (to get to the bottom of things), but I'll ask somebody later just to be sure.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:42 pm

Reichu wrote:There seems to be an unusual 'weariness' to Misato in this scene.

Caffine fueled sleep deprivation is the number one suspect. Depression is number two.

Reichu wrote:Her last line here confuses me. The best I can make of it right now (based on contextual examples at SpaceAlc) is that she's talking about not being inhibited in their efforts (to get to the bottom of things), but I'll ask somebody later just to be sure.


I think this line simply leads directly into the next scene, where Misato risks having her investigation exposed by talking to Ritsuko.
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Postby zeaven » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:44 pm

If it helps any, that last line is translated as "I guess it's time to go maverick again." in the dubs. So yeah, you're correct.

I also noticed a similarity between the way Misato's eyes and Rei's eyes diverge in those two scenes. Just a coincidence, of course.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here, you know. :)

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:19 pm

zeaven wrote:If it helps any, that last line is translated as "I guess it's time to go maverick again." in the dubs. So yeah, you're correct.

Not that the dub really proves anything. ;)

I also noticed a similarity between the way Misato's eyes and Rei's eyes diverge in those two scenes.

I'm sure the fact that I supplied animated GIFs didn't help at all. :shifty:

Just a coincidence, of course.

A coincidence -- or enemy action? But we'll worry about that later.

More after sleep.
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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