The occupant(s) of unit 01's core [renamed]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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The occupant(s) of unit 01's core [renamed]

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Postby unitM » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:23 am

2.0: Shinji has abandoned his role at NERV. Zeruel confronts NERV. Mari intercepts with 02.

One of the bigger questions we've had in this forum is "is Yui the core of unit 01 or just the control system as Fuyu reveals to Shinji in Q?"

Image(After the fight with Mari activates 02's beast mode, Gendou also chimes in with "why are you doing this to me Yui")

It's also important to note that, if you watch the pictured part of the movie, the Dummy Plug entry into the pilot-less 01 is at first successful. Only a moment later is it rejected. This might be an indication that there is a sort of sequence to events, where at Yui's cool with the Dummy Plug but then is like "wait where's Shinji?" and rejects it.

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Postby Jinroh » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:39 am

Who said Yui isn't in the core?

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:02 am

In the past I have raised the possibility that Yui is not in the Eva. There are subtle differences in 1.0 compared to the series that suggest that she's not there. 2.0 points towards her being in there as the Eva rejects the dummy plug.

I still think there's a possibility that it will be revealed in the end that Yui is not in the Eva and she just died. All of Gendo's plans have been for nothing.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:02 am

Yeah we never said she wasn't in the core, unless you are talking about what Ritsuko said in 3.0 about how Shinji and his SDAT were the only things they could find.
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Postby Sachi » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:37 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I still think there's a possibility that it will be revealed in the end that Yui is not in the Eva and she just died. All of Gendo's plans have been for nothing.

Why would the writers bother playing with that possibility, if they have already given us an update on her status in 3.0 with Fuyutsuki's info bomb? Given that he's closely associated with the subject, the way he speaks is very matter of fact, and that he even regrets having to tell it, we can pretty much accept what he has to say as completely valid. Otherwise, the exposition is pointless and the writing is now unforgivably flawed. Why would they waste five minutes of screen time just to lie to us completely?

It would make much more sense if it turns out that Yui is simply irretrievable or chooses not to be recovered (as in EoE), than for her to have simply not been there the entire time. Both of those options also invalidate Gendo's plans, and would not require retconning previous exposition.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:59 am

Same than Sachi: Morton's Fork says that Yui's inside EVA-01, everything point toward that, and nothing hinted at it not being the case, even the fact Unit 01 didn't moved to protect Shinji from the falling lamplights in 1.0 is counterbalanced by it going berserk to protect him against Sachiel, and the lamplights weren't even falling on Shinji anyway, so Yui didn't had any reasons to move.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:23 am

The argument that Yui isn't the core because she's the control system would be more acceptable if we knew what both the control systems were and what cores do in this series. So far they're just words given to abstract objects or concepts. I mean, I've never knowingly seen this alledged control system, and the movies have yet to tell us what cores do beyond providing a kill target for angels and house Rei II for a bit in 2.22.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:56 am

Core data appears to deal with the pilot. Since cores can be swapped and Yui is specifically tied to Unit 01 it would make sense if she was the control system of the eva and not particularly associated with the core.

I'm not sure how the pic in the OP is supposed to shed light on the matter, though.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:22 am

Didn't the background technobabble when Mari was getting ready to get into EVA-02 in 2.0 said that the unit's core finished to be reconfigured?

That would mean that core = control system, no?
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:40 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Didn't the background technobabble when Mari was getting ready to get into EVA-02 in 2.0 said that the unit's core finished to be reconfigured?

That would mean that core = control system, no?


I don't see the relation. The core needs to be reconfigured so it can properly interface with the control system for the Eva. The control system's in the Eva, not the core. The core just has pilot data in it (which makes calling it a core somewhat nonsensical, since it doesn't seem to serve that purpose anymore, but we're told how it's used directly in the show so . . . :shrug: ).
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Postby Chuckman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:28 pm

The pilots don't seem to have any particular link to their Evas in Rebuild. At the very least, they took that element and made it unique to Shinji. I can see why, it was kind of a random thing to add to the original that caused all sorts of logical problems once applied to Evas other than those of the main pilots, since it implies all sorts of tech to remove, store, and retrieve souls for later use that's never mentioned or really hinted at beyond inference based on the way the Evas allegedly work.

Every Eva having a soul in NTE makes no sense. If it's true, then Mari-Mom and Kyoko (if there is a Kyoko, cloneska get hype) have both been blown up and Mari and Asuka have other robomommies now.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:52 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:The pilots don't seem to have any particular link to their Evas in Rebuild. At the very least, they took that element and made it unique to Shinji. I can see why, it was kind of a random thing to add to the original that caused all sorts of logical problems once applied to Evas other than those of the main pilots, since it implies all sorts of tech to remove, store, and retrieve souls for later use that's never mentioned or really hinted at beyond inference based on the way the Evas allegedly work.

Every Eva having a soul in NTE makes no sense. If it's true, then Mari-Mom and Kyoko (if there is a Kyoko, cloneska get hype) have both been blown up and Mari and Asuka have other robomommies now.


Yeah, the soul business is a non-starter in the ENT series. We know Yui's in Unit 01, and we know cores can be swapped allowing the kids to pilot different Evas, so those two pieces of info tell us there are no souls in the cores. That doesn't tell us what the devil the cores are good for, but it does tell us they don't have souls in 'em.
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I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:25 pm

Well, Unit 01’s core is never swapped out in these movies. So there’s still no hard evidence to suggest that the core is somehow separate front the control system. I mean, thematically it makes sense for them to be separate. The Dummy System being implemented in 2.22 is a lot more powerful if it were an entirely new control system to temporarily replace Yui as the control system, which is why there’s never a scene where Unit 01’s core is removed in favor of just having a Dummy System. But this is still really circumstantial evidence at best, and needs some sort of clarification to help substantiate it.

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:29 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Well, Unit 01’s core is never swapped out in these movies. So there’s still no hard evidence to suggest that the core is somehow separate front the control system. I mean, thematically it makes sense for them to be separate. The Dummy System being implemented in 2.22 is a lot more powerful if it were an entirely new control system to temporarily replace Yui as the control system, which is why there’s never a scene where Unit 01’s core is removed in favor of just having a Dummy System. But this is still really circumstantial evidence at best, and needs some sort of clarification to help substantiate it.


The Dummy System is meant to replace the pilot, so I don't see what it would have to do with Yui/the control system. I agree it's odd that it doesn't involve a core swap, though. Maybe it overrides both, who knows?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:31 pm

So I guess we’re back at wondering what it is that the control system is and does, other than whatever obvious conclusion we can get from its name.

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Postby Ray » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:37 pm

Since when has anything in Eva ever been obvious?
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:42 pm

^
Since Psycho-analyzation was invented, oh and the words and pictures help too bro :lol:
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:11 am

For me, in NTE the core is the "hardware" that houses the control system (ie all the data that let a pilot synchronize with the Eva) and which could also store a soul, which then serves as the control system.
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Postby Bagheera » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:53 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:For me, in NTE the core is the "hardware" that houses the control system (ie all the data that let a pilot synchronize with the Eva) and which could also store a soul, which then serves as the control system.


Then why is Unit 01 worth a damn? If the control system isn't in the eva the eva shouldn't matter. But it clearly does.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:00 am

^
Well, since it can be awakened, and only "special" Evas can do that "or else why would had SEELE bothered to transform an ADAM into Mark.06 or later into EVA-13?"), my take is that EVA-01 has something special with its body: either made directly from Lilith's flesh like in NGE, or another of the four ADAMs (unlikely, since it was seen deploying an AT Field)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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