Issues With Runtime: How Long Does Final NEED to be?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby robersora » Wed May 28, 2014 4:49 am

View Original PostRay wrote:@robersora

Would you personally prefer a long or short runtime for Final?


Personally I'd prefer, that the movie will be very good. And for more I don't care, I trust Anno so far that I know, he has the capability to make it work be it 400 or 40 Minutes. I know he'll choose wisely, so that it won't feel drawn out or rushed. :)

A full 180 minutes? Impossible, Anno would bankrupt his studio in the process!


If Haruhi garnered enough money for a 180 Minute-Movie after Endless 8, i doubt final will have problems in that regard.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed May 28, 2014 12:10 pm

I'm sure we'll feel like we watched an epic. As I've said, it just needs to be a nice, long movie.

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Postby Ray » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:56 pm

It will either be short and tragic. Or long and uplifting.

Seriously Anno, if you're going for a happy ending and need another year to make 4.0 longer. Take it! Screw the fan boys and the ten year anniversary! We want a happy ending! Don't mess this up just because you have a deadline to meet!

. . .maybe Anno will release extended cuts of Final on the Blu Ray box set after the fact?

Sorry, just. . .anxiety.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:46 am

Anno owns the studio making the new Evangelion movies, the only deadline he has is "as long I want".

So rest assured : Anno made a big bet and raised expectation through the roof with Q's twist, so he won't stop until he's completely satisfied by the final result!
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Postby Firetrout » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:50 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Anno owns the studio making the new Evangelion movies, the only deadline he has is as long he want.

So rest assured : Anno made a big bet and raised expectation through the roof with Q's twist, so he won't stop until he's completely satisfied by the final result!




Meanwhile, in 2382...

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:28 am

^
What's his frozen head doing in 2382 Good Sir? I seriously hope he would have become an energy being by then.
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Postby Ray » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:28 pm

He's constructing a time machine to send the completed version of the film back in time to 2015 for the ten year anniversary.

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Postby Dataprime » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:41 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:release extended cuts of Final on the Blu Ray

I was thinking the same thing.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:03 pm

If there is extended cuts of FINAL, it will be little additional scenes adding a little more depth to the character, nothing that will change the story.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:09 pm

^
Unless they give us a more awesome alternate ending than the one we have yet to see :D
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Postby Dataprime » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:10 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote: nothing that will change the story.

Oh, I know that. I don't think anyone will argue with you on that point.

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Postby Ray » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:54 pm

Seriously. . . when/if the news come in that its only gonna be 90 minutes. . .I think I might give up all hope for Final being a happy ending. . .

Ugh. . .to be an Eva Fan is to be a glutton for punishment!

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:47 pm

Based on release schedules for the previous films, it's gonna follow something like this pattern: international title (around New Years?), then posters/Eva drawings at a lantern festival, then trailers (around 2 months before film release), then the film.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:55 pm

If that's the case, I'll be sure to have internet access during those winter months. :lol:

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Postby Ray » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:03 pm

I mean seriously, how is Shinji going to:

1. Get out of his Catatonic state of depression even though he literally has no reason to continue.

2. Reconcile with Misato and/or Asuka after Fourteen years of physical and emotional seperation. In addition to getting them to treat him like a human being again?

3. Disprove popular opinion about him being "Impact Boy' and prove its not his fault and/or that he never intended to destroy the world. . .twice?

4. Get people to trust him enough to pilot an Eva again after causing ANOTHER Impact?

5. Get some kind of closure and/or final confrontation with Gendo?

6. Solve the whole issue with Rei-Q/

7. Accept Rei, the only girl he ever had a real connection with is seemingly trapped for eternity inside of Unit 01?

-

in only a 90-110 minute runtime?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:10 pm

1) First 15-30 minutes Asuka will get him out of his funk

2) During the above she will reassure him that they still care

3) That'll happen at the end during the Gendo and Shinji fight

4) See the above

5) See number 3

6) Quantum Rei still exists, so yeah, no worries there.

It can be done in that time.

When they are going to fit in the Mari reveal is a whole other matter.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:03 am

Ray, he could do all of that in maybe 45 minutes, max. I'm really not seeing the issue here.

And Chaddy, Mari's deal could be explained in one or two lines. "Oh yeah, Mr. Kaji recruited me to work for the IPEA. I worked with him to undermine Seele's plans from the start, and we helped form Wille after everything went to hell 14 years ago." Bam, done.

There's what's needed, and then there's what people would like to see. There seems to be a lot of confusion between the two.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:15 am

View Original PostRay wrote:I mean seriously, how is Shinji going to:

1. Get out of his Catatonic state of depression even though he literally has no reason to continue.

After a few hours of walking he get out of his state of shock, or has another Hell Train sequence at the end of which he goes back to reality, or Asuka ends in a tight spot that makes him get out of his funk, there are a lot of reasons for him to get out of his catatonia. Having he, Asuka and Rei Q finally alone together and not in combat situation for some time is just too big of an opportunity to have some interaction and character development for each of them to just waste it with a Shinji staying a vegetable for the whole trip and Rei Q not saying anything.

And the preview explicitly says that he will find hope (and with it a reason to continue) in the place he'll reach. I'm sure that the situation out of the Tokyo-3 region isn't as hopeless as what Kaworu implied, and that there's a bigass and proud Lilin settlement somewhere where everyone is working hard to rebuild the world and offer a chance for the next generations.

View Original PostRay wrote:2. Reconcile with Misato and/or Asuka after Fourteen years of physical and emotional seperation. In addition to getting them to treat him like a human being again?

And even after 14 years of separation a bond can be rekindled, once everyone get to sit down and talk to each other, there's already an opportunity between Shinji and Asuka in the red desert, add another one with Misato somewhere in the movie and that's it. Also, I'm sure that Mari and Sakura will be of great help here. Mari was already trying to reconcile them back in 3.0 (at least that's how I interpreted her teasing, it's obvious that Shinji is a very sensible spot for Asuka that needs closure, and Mari knows it)

View Original PostRay wrote:3. Disprove popular opinion about him being "Impact Boy' and prove its not his fault and/or that he never intended to destroy the world. . .twice?
They already know that, he made it clear time and time again both when he was in the Wunder and in Lilith's Chamber that he wants to help and not to destroy the world, except that he does it wrong because he's constantly being manipulated.

View Original PostRay wrote:4. Get people to trust him enough to pilot an Eva again after causing ANOTHER Impact?

They won't trust him, they can't trust him: he's an Impact trigger, everytime he goes into an Eva they take the risk of another Impact happening. Even if he was trained to keep his emotions in check it's just too big of a risk to take, they won't resort to take that kind of risk unless they reach the "Godzilla Threshold" were there is no other alternative. If he performs well (meaning defeating the enemy without disobeying the orders, losing his shit or triggering an Impact) then they could trust him with an Eva again. Eventually. That's it if Shinji even wants to get inside one again in any circumstance that's not "piloting now or everyone dies in the next five minutes".

View Original PostRay wrote:5. Get some kind of closure and/or final confrontation with Gendo?

Final battle, maybe Instrumentality if it happens and works similarly than in NGE. Or maybe in an epilogue if Gendo's captured and Shinji visits his cell.

View Original PostRay wrote:6. Solve the whole issue with Rei-Q

During the red desert trip for a confrontation between Shinji and her, and in parallel with Shinji's story for the rest of the movie. Rei Q's quest isn't dependent from Shinji, it's something personal and while Shinji is an important piece of her quest for identity, it's not the central piece.

View Original PostRay wrote:7. Accept Rei, the only girl he ever had a real connection with is seemingly trapped for eternity inside of Unit 01?

He already did that in Q, he knows that he didn't saved her and it sink in, he even got a mental breakdown out of it.


I think that all of this can perfectly fit in a 100 minute movie with a good usage of montage and pacing, and as Bagheera noted in the "Q does (not) suck" thread, Anno mastered the use of montage to tell us as many thing as possible in the time he has available.
Hell, just look at the insane density of information in Q just the images! And that's a movie whose main purpose was to confuse and keep us in the dark as much as possible!
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:48 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:And Chaddy, Mari's deal could be explained in one or two lines.
That would be delivering it in "Tell, don't show" style, while really isn't Anno's forte. And it would have to be done very carefully not to come of as a lame retrospective ass-pull.
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Postby Ray » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:31 pm

I think that all of this can perfectly fit in a 100 minute movie with a good usage of montage and pacing, and as Bagheera noted in the "Q does (not) suck" thread, Anno mastered the use of montage to tell us as many thing as possible in the time he has available.
Hell, just look at the insane density of information in Q just the images! And that's a movie whose main purpose was to confuse and keep us in the dark as much as possible!


My old screenwriting teacher told me that "Montages are almost always a copout lazy writers use when it comes to character development."

Maybe I'm just setting my expectations too high. . . I want to see and hear that painful conversation of reconciliation between Misato and Shinji. Not have it implied that they reconciled offscreen with a quick flashback or montage.

Not to mention, I'm just worried Shinji reconciling with them after 14 years of absence might not come off as believable given the circumstances the characters find themselves in now. Unless the film is long enough to make it seem at least plausible.


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